6E Rules changes confirmed so far

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

I never had that big a problem with 5e Regen. A bit clunky but it worked in play. But then I'll admit I don't use it very much at all.

5e Regen is clunky and requires an exception to the Healing rules to work. 4e Regen was much more elegant and didn't require me to open the rule book to find out what advantages, and limitations to apply to healing to make regen. That's why most folk consider it broken.

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

But there's one problem with that: Beauty - or lack thereof - has an effect' date=' [i']period.[/i]

 

Studies have shown that attractive people get more - and more positive - attention from salespeople. They are rated as being more sucessful based soley upon visual appearance. Many people have no problem speaking to a person of average appearance, but get tounge-tied around someone who is really attractive.

 

So saying that someone can be beautiful - and yet that beauty has no effect - is, well, ridiculous.

 

So do you play Pulp games at all? If so, do you make sure to include sexism against women? Do you make sure to include constant references to the bread lines of the depression? How about racism? Do you include it?

 

Lots of games ignore things.

 

Part of "no effect" is whether the player wants the beauty to have an effect. He may just want to be good-looking but not have it effect anything.

 

In the same way, a superhero character can have a Secret ID without taking the Social Limitation: Secret ID. He's telling the GM that he doesn't want the Secret Identity to be a plot point -- it's just a character bit.

[Vulcan]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Yeah' date=' but knocking people out isn't the purpose of killing attacks. It just means characters shouldn't use killing attacks unless they're trying to kill the target.[/quote']

 

Exactly!

 

Someone Rep aj for this, apparently I've hit him too recently.

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

5e Regen is clunky and requires an exception to the Healing rules to work. 4e Regen was much more elegant and didn't require me to open the rule book to find out what advantages' date=' and limitations to apply to healing to make regen. That's why most folk consider it broken.[/quote']

 

All games have things that are broken. All new editions break new things. It's the circle of life.

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Here's my prediction: Ten years from now, when Comeliness hasn't been an official part of the Hero system for a decade, Hero players are still going to be using numbers to describe their characters' attractiveness.

 

GM: "How much Striking Appearance did you buy for Miss Justice?"

 

Player: "I paid 4 Points, so she has an 18 COM."

 

The numbers may mutate to Olympic-style 1.0 - 10 as guys do rating women ("Man, Angelina Jolie's an 11!"), but relative numerical ratings aren't going to go away. It's a shorthand people understand naturally.

 

My prediction is that most people will be saying that they bought 4 levels with Striking Appearance - Beauty. Most folk won't even know that there was ever a Com score or even care.

[gojira]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

I really havn't played enough to have any real opinions about most of the changes. But this one makes a bit of sense to me.

If you are using minitures just break out your tape measure and use the usual conversion. A lot of the miniture games seem to be doing this

 

 

A fun supplement for 6e might be "Hex HERO." A bunch of rules for using miniatures and scenery, plus a lot of photocopyable paper cut out scenery. HERO's answer to Games Workshop: here's model glue in yer eye, GW.

 

I'm thinking 4 parts HERO rules, 1 part Car Wars (remember that game? it had paper / cardboard cut-outs) and some GW style scenery and modeling rules. Cars are this big and have this Def and Body. Walls are like this, here's how to do a hole in the wall, etc. Pre-printed is good here. Advice on how to physically build a paper model is good too.

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

My prediction is that most people will be saying that they bought 4 levels with Striking Appearance - Beauty. Most folk won't even know that there was ever a Com score or even care.

 

I'm not so sure. I still run into lots of people who think there is a -1 on your to-hit roll for making a half move and that rule disappeared 20 years ago.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Let's not go here again. Its a done deal no matter how passionate we all are and this thread shouldn't devolve into the same old arguments and get locked. I loved it others didn't Its gone, I don't know if I'll like the new perk . It would have to be pretty detailed and "sexy" but I have confidence in Steve its not just a rehash of GURPS.

 

I'm again amazed again how reviled and loved COM is. Obviously not so trivial as originally thought.

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Exactly!

 

Someone Rep aj for this, apparently I've hit him too recently.

 

Great that works for Champions, but I play in a two cinematic type Normals game. One a D&D clone will become much more deadly for both PCs and NPCs. Not what we wanted when we converted over from dnd4th. The other one is a Serenity StarHero Clone and yeah people take body in that universe, but for the most part it isn't about generating body count. All of these kind of games will be turned on their heads by the new KA rules.

 

You, know Fuzion changed things majorly and managed to Keep some of the feel of Hero Combat with Weapons. This totally hoses that feel.

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

I really havn't played enough to have any real opinions about most of the changes. But this one makes a bit of sense to me.

If you are using minitures just break out your tape measure and use the usual conversion. A lot of the miniture games seem to be doing this

 

Or you can still play on a hex map where one hex is 2m just like it's been for 28 years -- it's just that you'll have 34m of Flight and an 12m AoE EB rather than 17" of Flight and a 6" AoE EB. You can still count them out on the map just like you do now.

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

A fun supplement for 6e might be "Hex HERO." A bunch of rules for using miniatures and scenery, plus a lot of photocopyable paper cut out scenery. HERO's answer to Games Workshop: here's model glue in yer eye, GW.

 

I'm thinking 4 parts HERO rules, 1 part Car Wars (remember that game? it had paper / cardboard cut-outs) and some GW style scenery and modeling rules. Cars are this big and have this Def and Body. Walls are like this, here's how to do a hole in the wall, etc. Pre-printed is good here. Advice on how to physically build a paper model is good too.

 

BTW just because things are going to be measured in Meters and not hexes doesn't mean that support for miniatures will be lacking. Hell Hero did this SAME thing with Fuzion and those rules had the same robust rules for minis that the Core Hero rules did.

[Vulcan]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

You're wrong. I used COM but I doubt I'll miss it and I won't be grandfathering it back in.

 

You do not speak for everyone who used COM.

 

 

Okay. That's fine.

 

My point was that at the very least, some (if not most) of the people who actually used COM will continue to do so.

 

 

 

By the way, did you actually use COM? Was it used in game, or was it just relegated to it's slot on the character sheet and ignored it most of the time?

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Let's not go here again. Its a done deal no matter how passionate we all are and this thread shouldn't devolve into the same old arguments and get locked. I loved it others didn't Its gone, I don't know if I'll like the new perk . It would have to be pretty detailed and "sexy" but I have confidence in Steve its not just a rehash of GURPS.

 

I'm again amazed again how reviled and loved COM is. Obviously not so trivial as originally thought.

 

I don't hate COM. I just welcome any mechanic that ties beauty into interaction skills closely and in a way that an overworked GM won't handwave away as being too much work or too much to think about.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Or you can still play on a hex map where one hex is 2m just like it's been for 28 years -- it's just that you'll have 34m of Flight and an 12m AoE EB rather than 17" of Flight and a 6" AoE EB. You can still count them out on the map just like you do now.

 

That actually works just fine for me and seems to make things easier. Some mention of maps ans scales might be included but meters is good

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

 

Okay. That's fine.

 

My point was that at the very least, some (if not most) of the people who actually used COM will continue to do so.

 

 

 

By the way, did you actually use COM? Was it used in game, or was it just relegated to it's slot on the character sheet and ignored it most of the time?

 

I used it as a complimentary roll when appropriate.

 

But it's just a game. The rules have changed. Why live in the past?

 

For the record, I was pretty neutral in the COM debate.

[Vulcan]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

I don't hate COM. I just welcome any mechanic that ties beauty into interaction skills closely and in a way that an overworked GM won't handwave away as being too much work or too much to think about.

 

And what makes you think Striking Appearance won't be vulnerable to exactly the same thing?

[nexus]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Let's not go here again. Its a done deal no matter how passionate we all are and this thread shouldn't devolve into the same old arguments and get locked. I loved it others didn't Its gone, I don't know if I'll like the new perk . It would have to be pretty detailed and "sexy" but I have confidence in Steve its not just a rehash of GURPS.

 

 

Exactly. Sniping at each other isn't going to bring it back, just get the thread locked and it's basically arguing over which kind of pizza topping is objectively the best. Personally, I'd like to start incorporating somethings from "Based on Com' in my current games.

 

I'm again amazed again how reviled and loved COM is. Obviously not so trivial as originally thought.

 

No kidding. Nothing that stirs up this much discussion is "trivial" even ifs only the style the index uses.

 

Edit: In the end, it doesn't matter squat what Steve Long says or doesn't say or any random group of people on the internet or even the books. All that matters is what happens at our individual gaming table and groups. Ten years from now, if I'm still gaming and still using Hero, odds are they'll still be Com and anyone that wants to play in my games will have to STFU and deal with that.

 

Same goes if I want to play in a game that doesn't use it. The only shame is that it won't receive anymore official support but eh, allot of things I'm interested in don't when it comes to Hero.

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

That actually works just fine for me and seems to make things easier. Some mention of maps ans scales might be included but meters is good

 

I think Steve will put something in about maps and scales -- I don't think it would take more than two or three paragraphs.

[Trebuchet]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

My prediction is that most people will be saying that they bought 4 levels with Striking Appearance - Beauty. Most folk won't even know that there was ever a Com score or even care.

I didn't say it would be a majority. Most players I know don't remember how many Levels they have in something; they remember what the number is. IOW, most players IME know they have 6 rPD, 6 rED from Combat Luck and not that they bought 2 levels in it. Same with Skills: They remember their PC has Climbing 16-, not what their base number was and how many Levels up they bought it from that base.

[GamePhil]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

And what makes you think Striking Appearance won't be vulnerable to exactly the same thing?

 

Why would it be? I know no GM's who won't allow the bonus to Skills from Perfect Pitch, but I have known GM's to ignore the Complementary COM roll for PRE-based skills, or even disallowed it in situations I thought it was appropriate in game.

 

Just curious about that one point, I'm not going to contribute further to rehashing the COM debate.

[Vulcan]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

I used it as a complimentary roll when appropriate.

 

But it's just a game. The rules have changed. Why live in the past?

 

For the record, I was pretty neutral in the COM debate.

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Now you see, this is what is commonly referred to as 'insulting.'

 

You imply that because I like COM and will house rule it back, I 'live in the past' and want everything to be as it used to be, regardless of the merits of changes. Perhaps I want to 'live in the past' where women were expected to stay at home, in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Perhaps I want to 'live in the past' where African-Americans were all owned, and referred to by a word with two g's in it.

 

As it happens, I do not want everything to be as it was. I want things to be better. New and improved, not just new.

 

Strking Appearance, as it has been presented, is nothing I haven't already done to supplement COM. That means that, in my experience, it is not a replacement for COM.

 

Others, including you, disagree. Fine. That's you're perogative. But DO NOT presume to tell me my preferences.

[rjcurrie]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Now you see, this is what is commonly referred to as 'insulting.'

 

You imply that because I like COM and will house rule it back, I 'live in the past' and want everything to be as it used to be, regardless of the merits of changes. Perhaps I want to 'live in the past' where women were expected to stay at home, in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Perhaps I want to 'live in the past' where African-Americans were all owned, and referred to by a word with two g's in it.

 

As it happens, I do not want everything to be as it was. I want things to be better. New and improved, not just new.

 

Strking Appearance, as it has been presented, is nothing I haven't already done to supplement COM. That means that, in my experience, it is not a replacement for COM.

 

Others, including you, disagree. Fine. That's you're perogative. But DO NOT presume to tell me my preferences.

 

I actually meant it as "why should I live in the past?" but you're right even that could be taken as an insult.

 

So, I apologize -- I didn't mean to insult you.

 

I should have said: "It's just a game. The rules have changed. I'll use the new rules".

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

And what makes you think Striking Appearance won't be vulnerable to exactly the same thing?

 

It won't be because Talents are built with powers and Skills. So there will be a built in mechanic in the talent that wasn't in the Stat. As I said earlier I imagine that it will be purchased as +1 with all Pre Skills (5) (+1 limit) only vs targets that that are attracted sexually to the PC which should come out to 3 pts or 5pts for +2 to the Roll.

 

If the Character is unusually ugly then the points are the same but the levels can be only used to cause fear

 

See simple

 

tasha

[nexus]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

But it's just a game. The rules have changed. Why live in the past?

 

I do want to address this.

 

It's just a game is the answer to your question. There is no need to "upgrade" just because something new comes along. Games aren't like computer software or hardware. They don't become obsolete. There are still people playing 4th edition games and I've heard of least one group that uses mostly the 3rd. You play what is fun for you not the new shiny thing just because it's new and shiny.

[Tasha]

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

I didn't say it would be a majority. Most players I know don't remember how many Levels they have in something; they remember what the number is. IOW' date=' most players IME know they have 6 rPD, 6 rED from Combat Luck and not that they bought 2 levels in it. Same with Skills: They remember their PC has Climbing 16-, not what their base number was and how many Levels up they bought it from that base.[/quote']

 

Since I am assuming that Striking appearance will be bought with limited skill rolls to PRE, they will remember how many levels in it they have