Vigil Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I think for me the thing most at issue, having started playing Champions back in 1981, is that 6th Ed doesn't feel like Champions anymore. It feels like Mutants and Masterminds or some second tier superhero rpg. It doesn't feel like the classic. And I'm really not sure why the originator and the best rpg system ever created would want to remodel itself to feel like it's lesser competiton. It's like chasing the bronze medal when you have the gold. The system simply wasn't broke...so why neuter it? I think it's most likely because of the dismantling of the CHAR system. Right or wrong, the system was iconic and who really cares if you got more than point for point benefit from STR and CON? Are we gamers or accountants? It just shows that it pays to have a high CON. Makes sense to me. Stuff like changing movement from inches to meters (which is odd in an American publication anyway, not being on the metric system) doesn't really bother me but "inches" were another iconic Champs insitution. I really do feel that what's happened is that the 5th Ed, which was a perfect system, imo, has become, in the 6th Ed, "Champions for Dummies". It seems to be a very deliberate attempt to dumb the system down and I'm not sure why. Obviously to appeal to someone but, if it's supposed to target the popcorn game crowd it doesn't work cause it's still well over 700 pages! Why simplify the system when no one had problems with it's "complexity"? Were Figured CHARs too challenging? I'm still puzzled by the argument that this iteration was meant to broaden the appeal of the game. Who was it meant to appeal to? We all already have the game so it's not us. Then who? I think the only reasonable answer is that it's supposed to be marketed to folks who play the MMO. That has to be the answer. If it isn't then there's something wrong with HEROs marketing department. I've seen in my experience though, that people who like MMOs generally won't take the time to learn another, even a related system....because they like MMOs! Not RPGs. Pen and paper and online are galaxies apart. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Another thing I just noticed is that universally, in the Champions character examples in the second sourcebook, all the characters maintain the classic 1/3 ratio of DEX/EGO to OCV/ECV. Since the deisgners don't seem to be able to or want to move past the ratio, why bother changing it? It's seems, like in the old system, that there is still a move toward the old, iconic, balance. I've yet to see an example here of a character with a 14/2 or somesuch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Those characters were just taken from the old guide and updated. I doubt they put much thought into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Another thing I just noticed is that universally, in the Champions character examples in the second sourcebook, all the characters maintain the classic 1/3 ratio of DEX/EGO to OCV/ECV. Since the deisgners don't seem to be able to or want to move past the ratio, why bother changing it? It's seems, like in the old system, that there is still a move toward the old, iconic, balance. I've yet to see an example here of a character with a 14/2 or somesuch. I actually plan to make a character with Dex=13, OCV=7, DCV=7. After I've got the printed rule books, I've skimmed the PDF but haven't absorbed it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version 5th edition did not force you to buy END or REC to represent a higher CON. The character already received bonuses to END or REC as a result of buying a higher CON. Removing the figured characteristics will force a PC to buy up END and REC to represent having a higher CON. 5th (and previous editions) forced you to have a higher END and REC if you wanted a higher CON, even if you didn't want them to be higher. You didn't have to buy them up any higher than the system forced them to, but you were forced to either have them be high as a base or buy limited CON. In 6th edition you can have all of your characteristics at the levels you want them without needing to worry about how modifying other characteristics will change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I agree with you on only being able to sell one stat back. I didn't agree with that either, but then again there were multiple things in Hero I disagreed with. Correct. No hoops, and no relationship between characteristics either. I promise I'm not trying to be bull-headed or argue for the sake of arguing. I just liked the relation between the primaries and the figured stats. And there is nothing stopping you from keeping that relationship in place in your games, or for your characters. The rules just no longer force those of us who don't think that relationship is valid for every single possible character to either use it anyway or jump through hoops to get around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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