LWhitehead Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 So there going to be a 6th version of Champions?, dam thats why my local store has some there 5th version of Champions books in there sale area. Does this mean I have to get new versions of Champions RPG books?, LW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Not unless the words have fallen out of the old editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Have to, no. I'm not sold on 6e, yet, myself, so I'll probably just keep playing 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version So there going to be a 6th version of Champions?, dam thats why my local store has some there 5th version of Champions books in there sale area. Does this mean I have to get new versions of Champions RPG books?, LW No. Hero is pretty good about keeping their material backwards-compatible. D&D changed more between 3.5 and 4 than Hero has between 1 and 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I'll have to agree with CrosshairCollie there are a lot of us who may be sticking with 5th Edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I'll have to agree with CrosshairCollie there are a lot of us who may be sticking with 5th Edition. Ditto - hate to say it but money is to tight now adays to buy another version of a game I already own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I seem to remember that there is a new version of Champions planned. The Champions Genre Book is one of the oldest currently in the Hero Line. Also a new Champions Genre book will align the "Official" PnP Champions world with the one that is part of the Champions MMO. Again I imagine that the Champions Genre Book will be released soon after 6th edition's release with Fantasy Hero following close behind. People here will moan and groan, but they will find reasons/budget and end up purchasing the new books to get the new material. Remember 6th edition Hero is going to be great! Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version The Champions Genre Book will still be a general Genre Oriented book. The new Champions Universe book will align the MMO Universe with the Champions Universe. they are two separate books. Do not confuse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version the alignment should be a good read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Steve Long has mentioned on more than one occasion that the company will continue to keep Fifth Edition versions of their sourcebooks available for sale (at least in PDF form) until updated editions of them are available; and some of those books won't be redone for Sixth for a long time, if ever. Heck, Hero Games is still selling the 4E PRIMUS sourcebook. (And a fine read it is, too). So I don't believe there's any urgency to drop 5E, or convert everything to 6E unless one wishes to do so. I know quite a few HERO gamers who never even made the move from 4E to 5E, and give every appearance of being satisfied with their gaming lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Considering how many things were needlessly Nerfed or changed from 4e to 5e and the fact that I've already seen lots of posts here detailing changes that I think are poor ideas for the new edition, I won't be buying any 6th edition books, just like I won't be paying for any 4th edition D&D books either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Considering how many things were needlessly Nerfed or changed from 4e to 5e and the fact that I've already seen lots of posts here detailing changes that I think are poor ideas for the new edition' date=' I won't be buying any 6th edition books, just like I won't be paying for any 4th edition D&D books either.[/quote'] With the exception of losing Regen and Instant change(instant change is a minor thing). I found that over all that the changes in 5th edition made good sense, and in many cases simplified the math required to create characters. If anything 5th edition suffered from over explanation of the rules, which made reading the rule book a quite daunting task for noob players. Again I would recommend that you look at the changes when they are finally published and determine whether the changes make good sense. There are a small pool of people in Herodom who know all of the changes, we only know what Steve has told us in his previews and a smattering of changes out of context out of a Chat log. From what I am seeing from the preview, I am quite excited about the new edition. There will be many new options available to allow us to create even more effects. ie Surface allows us to do that old thing of heating up a surface to cause damage. (ie Superman's heatvision& D&D spell Burning Hands) this was something that was really difficult to do before in the rules. From the 4 previews, all of my concerns about the rules have been overcome. I think that the new goodies out weigh the stuff that I have concerns over (ie Stun multiples in Killing Attacks) I urge everyone to wait till the rules are released to make a determination to buy or not. That way you make an intelligent decision based on fact, and not on rumor and emotion. Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I'll have to agree with CrosshairCollie there are a lot of us who may be sticking with 5th Edition. That's where I am as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version With the exception of losing Regen and Instant change(instant change is a minor thing). I found that over all that the changes in 5th edition made good sense, and in many cases simplified the math required to create characters. If anything 5th edition suffered from over explanation of the rules, which made reading the rule book a quite daunting task for noob players. Again I would recommend that you look at the changes when they are finally published and determine whether the changes make good sense. There are a small pool of people in Herodom who know all of the changes, we only know what Steve has told us in his previews and a smattering of changes out of context out of a Chat log. From what I am seeing from the preview, I am quite excited about the new edition. There will be many new options available to allow us to create even more effects. ie Surface allows us to do that old thing of heating up a surface to cause damage. (ie Superman's heatvision& D&D spell Burning Hands) this was something that was really difficult to do before in the rules. From the 4 previews, all of my concerns about the rules have been overcome. I think that the new goodies out weigh the stuff that I have concerns over (ie Stun multiples in Killing Attacks) I urge everyone to wait till the rules are released to make a determination to buy or not. That way you make an intelligent decision based on fact, and not on rumor and emotion. Tasha Well, I didn't like changes made in 5th- the removal of the automatic extra inches of coverage on forcewall, the stupid rule of max number of points on healing, the removal of simplified instant change and regeneration powers- I'm glad you were happy with these changes but I was not and between my dislike of the way Steve handles the system and the removal of Figured Chars for 6th I know already that I won't like the changes there either- we've already been assured FC are gone and I refuse to pay money for a product that will no longer be my beloved Hero system. DOJ ponied up the money to buy Hero and so that allows them to make any changes to the system they want for reasons as arbitrary as "Steve Long don't like this"- I can't change that, but I can make sure not to give them my money for the reason that "Snapt don't like your changes". Just because you like what DOJ has done with the system does not mean everyone has to like it and some of us already have enough info about the new system to know we don't want. My decision is an informed one- we know that one of the fundamental building blocks of the system (Figured Chars) is changing and this is all I need to know to make my decision in regard to 6th edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Well, I didn't like changes made in 5th- the removal of the automatic extra inches of coverage on forcewall, the stupid rule of max number of points on healing, the removal of simplified instant change and regeneration powers- I'm glad you were happy with these changes but I was not and between my dislike of the way Steve handles the system and the removal of Figured Chars for 6th I know already that I won't like the changes there either- we've already been assured FC are gone and I refuse to pay money for a product that will no longer be my beloved Hero system. DOJ ponied up the money to buy Hero and so that allows them to make any changes to the system they want for reasons as arbitrary as "Steve Long don't like this"- I can't change that, but I can make sure not to give them my money for the reason that "Snapt don't like your changes". Just because you like what DOJ has done with the system does not mean everyone has to like it and some of us already have enough info about the new system to know we don't want. My decision is an informed one- we know that one of the fundamental building blocks of the system (Figured Chars) is changing and this is all I need to know to make my decision in regard to 6th edition. I won't argue your points, but you are missing my point about seeing the whole rule system before you decide. I am not saying that you have to like anything. I am trying to be a voice of reason. I guess that not having secondary Characteristics based on the primaries might be a reason to change, but of course the Secondary Characteristics themselves are still there. I am looking forward to seeing how decoupling Secondary Characteristics helps generate characters that meet their conceptions better. (JIC you missed it, PD, ED, SPD, REC, END, and Stun still exist in 6e, their base is just not generated from your primaries). So too bad for you. Perhaps we will meet at a convention some day and I'll run a 6e game for you and show you that it's still Hero and it plays the same if not better Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I won't argue your points, but you are missing my point about seeing the whole rule system before you decide. I am not saying that you have to like anything. I am trying to be a voice of reason. I guess that not having secondary Characteristics based on the primaries might be a reason to change, but of course the Secondary Characteristics themselves are still there. I am looking forward to seeing how decoupling Secondary Characteristics helps generate characters that meet their conceptions better. (JIC you missed it, PD, ED, SPD, REC, END, and Stun still exist in 6e, their base is just not generated from your primaries). So too bad for you. Perhaps we will meet at a convention some day and I'll run a 6e game for you and show you that it's still Hero and it plays the same if not better Tasha No, it won't be Hero anymore- it will be DOJ's version of Hero, which is not my version and certainly not the version intended by the early pioneers of the system. See, much as I dislike Kevin S at Pallbooks, when he makes terrible mistakes with his system, that's fine- he created, he can mess it up, but I stopped buying his books a long time ago. When DOJ messes up Hero, to me that's not ok- they may have bought the system but it was someone else's ideas and work that created the system and when they change that system in such fundamental ways as removing the Figured Chars, even if those characteristics still exists, then they've gone too far and are no longer selling what I consider to be the Hero System. Others will disagree, you clearly do- doesn't mean I have to give DOJ anymore chances though, I know what I want and like and their game system is no longer going to be it as of 6th edition. Just because you don't like my reasons for refusing to buy 6th, don't presume to think that they're not every bit as valid as yours for liking what you've seen in the previews thus far. Mileage May Vary, and often does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisawa Takumi Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I don't think there will be a CHAMPIONS for 6th ed. Didn't they sell the entire universe to Cryptic Studios for the MMO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I don't think there will be a CHAMPIONS for 6th ed. Didn't they sell the entire universe to Cryptic Studios for the MMO? They have rights to publish the world for PnP RPGs IIRC. We have actually seen 2 book set in the new cryptic CU. Book of the Destroyer, and now Book of the Machine are set in the Cryptic CU tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version My issues with 6e thus far are less financial and more 'this is getting too complicated'. 5e was more complicated than 4e, and I don't think it was necessary in most cases. 6e looks to be even MORE complicated so far, and there's only so far that goes before I just throw my hands up and back away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I don't think there will be a CHAMPIONS for 6th ed. Didn't they sell the entire universe to Cryptic Studios for the MMO? Champions Universe 6E is slated for Later this year. Champions Genre Book is slated for fallish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version My issues with 6e thus far are less financial and more 'this is getting too complicated'. 5e was more complicated than 4e' date=' and I don't think it was necessary in most cases. 6e looks to be even MORE complicated so far, and there's only so far that goes before I just throw my hands up and back away.[/quote'] I was a bit concerned about the level of complexity rising further in 6th too, but from the first three previews, at least some things are looking to be simplified. I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version ...then they've gone too far and are no longer selling what I consider to be the Hero System. Others will disagree, you clearly do- doesn't mean I have to give DOJ anymore chances though, I know what I want and like and their game system is no longer going to be it as of 6th edition. I find it just a little ironic that you've taken the time to voice this on a discussion board provided for free by DOJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisawa Takumi Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version Champions Universe 6E is slated for Later this year. Champions Genre Book is slated for fallish. Huhn, my info's wrong. Good to know. For myself, I'm not so sure on the 6e changes, but I'd like to play in it to get a feel for it. Who knows, maybe my initial perceptions may be wrong and I'll like them. As for Champions 6e, I'm not sure I like the visual/art changes to Defender's suit. But then I'm biased, I like the Modern/Movie Iron Man style of power armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I find it just a little ironic that you've taken the time to voice this on a discussion board provided for free by DOJ. I've already given DOJ a good deal of my money, thank you very much. I just don't think that throwing more money into a system that I don't want is a good fiscal choice. I like the 5th edition books that I have and would still love to get my hands on previous edition books as well- to me those are Hero System. I'm not sure how this is at all ironic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Re: Champions 6th version I've already given DOJ a good deal of my money' date=' thank you very much. I just don't think that throwing more money into a system that I don't want is a good fiscal choice. I like the 5th edition books that I have and would still love to get my hands on previous edition books as well- to me those are Hero System. I'm not sure how this is at all ironic... [/quote'] I have about 95% of everything ever published for the system. (ie from 2nd Edition Champions to just about everything in DOJ's Catelog). Take it from someone who has played all of those editions. They really aren't better than 5er. Remember that it was Core members of the original Hero Games folk who comissioned 5th edition Hero from Steve Long (Before the Dot com crash, and DOJ's purchase of Hero Games). So it is quite safe to say that 5th edition is what the founders wanted. Seeing that 5er is just more explanations added to make thing even clearer, and I don't see your point. Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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