House Rule for Luck

[Xandarr]

I was talking to one of my players (RadeFox on this board) and we were trying to come up with a fair but interesting rule for the Luck power. As it stands, everything about the power pretty much falls in the realm of GM fiat. Sure, you can roll some dice, and get a BODY total, but the effect of those dice are still pretty much up to the GM. What one GM thinks might be a 1 point luck effect could be worth 2 points in another GM's opinion. Not only that, but the player can (and usually will) constantly assault the GM with questions on whether or not his luck will apply to any given situation. This house rule was created to give the players more control over their luck, while still allowing it to be used as listed in the 5th Ed. rule book.

 

For each 5 points, you can still buy 1d6 of luck. However, at the beginning of each game session, the player rolls the dice and counts them just like Normal Damage. The BODY damage is counted as "Event Points". The number of STUN damage on the dice are "Die Roll Points".

 

With the event pool you can spend one point to ask the GM for a standard Luck Roll and the GM can apply the results appropriately as per the standard rules. You can also opt to pay 2 Event Points each to get a guaranteed result as if you had rolled 1 luck points on the dice, cumulative (spend 4 Event Points for a guaranteed result of 2 luck, etc). Using this method, points of luck are still arbitrarily decided by the GM, so the GM does maintain some control over the player's luck. The GM can also veto any request to spend those points as usual. Once all the Event Points are spent for the session, the player can no longer ask for the dice rolls. His character's luck has "run out" for events.

 

This brings us to the Die Roll Points (DRP's). You can use a DRP to adjust any die roll that directly affects your character (whether rolled by you or by someone else) by 1 for each DRP spent. For each 3 DRP's, you can adjust any other die roll by 1, even if it only affects you indirectly. You cannot change any die rolls that do not at least marginally have some relation to the character in question. DRP's cannot be used in this way to change a critical success or failure, unless you spend 3 DRP's. For 3 DRP's, you can change any roll into a critical success or failure, or prevent a currently rolled critical success or failure that directly affects your character. If it only affects you indirectly, the charge is 10 DRP's. You still cannot affect rolls that have no affect on you.

 

I think with this method, it gives more value to the Luck power, something that can be quantified by the players. This method can also be expanded to cover Unluck as well, except that the GM would secretly roll the player or NPC's unluck in advance without telling the player what the amount is, and would apply the same rules as for Luck, only against the player. This limits the amount of Unluck a player can be subjected to in any one game session and might actually encourage players to take it more often since they know it won't constantly be used against them.

 

So what does everyone think? Is it abusive? Should this still be charged 5/die or is it worth much more now? Have we just completely lost our minds?

 

Waiting with baited breath (yuck),

Steve

[OddHat]

Not bad. Luck certainly lends itself to house rules, and this system seems fair enough if a bit book-keeping heavy.

 

I usually offer these options for Luck:

 

1) The player can buy luck that costs END. He may then roll the luck as often as he wants, provided he spends the END to do so. The GM still decides exactly what happens when the player gets X points of luck. Luck with charges is handled the same way.

 

2) The player may ask to be allowed to roll luck once per game session per 2d6 of luck. If Captain Improbable has 12d6 of Luck, he can ask to be allowed to roll it 6 times per game session.

 

3) Luck based characters are strongly encouraged to take other Luck powers, including Combat Luck and a Luck-based VPP or MP.

[Cybernaut]

Luck that costs END? So, can your players push their Luck?

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Cybernaut

Luck that costs END? So, can your players push their Luck?

 

Yes.

[Xandarr]

Thanks for the feedback, Oddhat.

 

Originally posted by OddHat

Not bad. Luck certainly lends itself to house rules, and this system seems fair enough if a bit book-keeping heavy.

 

Thanks. I figure it's not too bad, considering that Luck isn't that common. The bookkeeping I would think less tedious than keeping track of Stun or End during combat, plus it would make for great drama as someone gets close to the end of their luck and has to be very careful how to apply the remaining points.

 

I usually offer these options for Luck:

 

1) The player can buy luck that costs END. He may then roll the luck as often as he wants, provided he spends the END to do so. The GM still decides exactly what happens when the player gets X points of luck. Luck with charges is handled the same way.

 

I've seen this before, and it's clever (especially the "Pushing your Luck" joke). However, I don't think it would limit characters much, except maybe in combat, where END costs might make a difference in a long fight.

 

2) The player may ask to be allowed to roll luck once per game session per 2d6 of luck. If Captain Improbable has 12d6 of Luck, he can ask to be allowed to roll it 6 times per game session.

 

Almost the same thing as my "Event Points" system, only half as often. How does that work out for you?

 

3) Luck based characters are strongly encouraged to take other Luck powers, including Combat Luck and a Luck-based VPP or MP.

 

Agreed. Characters with a Lucky Concept should buy much more than just the Luck power, just like a Fire Concept should buy much more than just EB. I was just looking for a way to give the characters more control over the power. Luck seems to be about the only power where the GM controls the power by default instead of the player.

 

Thanks again for the feedback,

Steve

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Xandarr

I've seen this before, and it's clever (especially the "Pushing your Luck" joke). However, I don't think it would limit characters much, except maybe in combat, where END costs might make a difference in a long fight.

 

True enough. That tends to be true of many limits on powers useful outside of combat. Since it's GM's option anyway, it would work just as well to give a reduced limit value or no limit value for it, saying that the trade off of control for END cost is a fair one.

I do give the -1/2 in my games, as I'm not interested in repricing every limit on every non-combat power.

 

Originally posted by Xandarr

Almost the same thing as my "Event Points" system, only half as often. How does that work out for you?

 

Quite well. When I started using this in 3rd or 4th ed. Champions, the most luck anyone ever bought was 3-5d6. At that time I allowed one luck roll per die. Now with characters running around with 12d6 luck, it starts to show up in every scene; halving the number of uses per game session helps keep luck from getting exponentially more powerful as you add dice.

YMMV and all.

[Ndreare]

I simply go by the third typr of luck recamended in the book. Basicly Roll luck at the begining of the game, For every point rolled the character may adjust the results of a die durring play by one.

 

I also allow a character to completly reroll for 3 points and as per the rules for luck no reroll mey result in a worse effect than the initial effect.

 

If you read the rules they give several variations on less arbitrary ways to handle this power.

 

 

P.S.: In heroic level games I allow characters to take 1 to 4 die of luck and Call it "EDGE". Which represents a characters intangible skill/advantage over his advisaries.

[Hugh Neilson]

What about paying +2 to buy off the "no conscious control" and he can just roll it every phase

 

Putting that on your character sheet and handing it over to the GM for review - that's what I call "Pushing your Luck!"

 

Some good suggestions on this thread - esp. if also applied to Unluck so people might occasionally take it rather than living in fear.

 

Commonly, we talk about players wanting too much benefit from luck. Someone m,entioned a guy with 12d6 Luck using it every scene. If I paid 60 points for a power, I'd expect to get fairly common use out of - how often does his teamate use that 12d6 Energy Blast?

[Farkling]

I've just started experimenting with Luck again...I have one character planning to buy it in the SuperSpies game (if we ever manage to play again...Real Life, Real Frequent!), and we are going to try the "STUN pip" version from the optional rules...rolling for points to adjust.

 

The Supers game is using the "BODY count" version. When the game starts for the evening, Cory rolls her Luck dice and gets her poker chips for the BODY total. She can cash them in to reroll a roll, make a skill roll when she has no appropriate skill (I found a clue!), or to change a non-combat event outcome...provided she is connected to the event (the chopper does NOT Explode after crash landing, it lands in the intersection Cory cleared an hour earlier...)

 

So far Cory's luck has worked well...I suppose for a LONG game session, I'd let her roll again when she ran out of chips...or trade me 2 chips for a roll...I'll have to think on that.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Farkling

So far Cory's luck has worked well...I suppose for a LONG game session, I'd let her roll again when she ran out of chips...or trade me 2 chips for a roll...I'll have to think on that.

 

There has to be some balancing factor - an extra-long session permitting another roll, but a short session (or one where not much happens) carrying over.

 

"Roll again when you run out" sounds like a great deal for the player. I'll buy 1 die and use it all the time - I just roll again if I run out!

 

I haven't experimented with it, but once for each 4-6 hour gaming session seems like it would be reasonable. You can always adjust it if that turns out to be too slow/long (or if the players always seem to get tired very suddenly when the last chip is spent ) and need to quit for the evening.

 

You could also make the reroll contingent on game time, rather than real time. That would prevent metagaming advantages. Some days, you don't need luck at all, other days it sure runs out fast.

[SDK]

I'm using a variant of the Dramatic Editing rules from Adventure!

The PC rolls his dice at the start of the session, and has that many points to use. With 2d6, it allows him to do about one big edit a session.

[prestidigitator]

I like being able to decide when my player's can roll their Luck. I usually leave it up to them to say, "Hey, we're not doing so well. Can I try my Luck?"

 

I start off being pretty conservative about allowing it, and return to this status when players try to abuse it. Then I start to be more liberal when it turns into actual story contribution rather then people trying to power game.

 

Sometimes I am devious, and allow players to roll as often as they like; I just start pushing temporary Unluck dice on them as well when they are abusive.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Commonly, we talk about players wanting too much benefit from luck. Someone m,entioned a guy with 12d6 Luck using it every scene. If I paid 60 points for a power, I'd expect to get fairly common use out of - how often does his teamate use that 12d6 Energy Blast?

 

Fairly common does not equal every scene. Your own posts make it claear that you wouldn't be comfortable with a character who used his 60 points of luck as often as a 60 point energy blast, and rightly so.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by OddHat

Fairly common does not equal every scene. Your own posts make it claear that you wouldn't be comfortable with a character who used his 60 points of luck as often as a 60 point energy blast, and rightly so.

 

However, in fairness to the player, if he doesn't get to use it as often, it should be more effective when he does get to use it. They both cost 60 points, so both players should get 60 points of value. Otherwise, Luck is overpriced.

 

The better answer is that the number of dice of Luck should be restricted if the GM isn't comfortable with making it worth its points at higher levels. 12d6 Luck, 60 points of Armor or a 12d6 EB should balance out - they each cost the player 60 character points.

 

The Luck is useful more frequently - your armor and EB are pretty useless looking for clues, but Luck can impact in and out of combat. That means it should be less useful in combat than the same points in a pure combat power, and less useful out of combat than 60 points in noncombat skills and powers. But if the player gets to use his luck every third or fourth scenario, he's not likely to be happy he spent 60 points on it - and rightly so!

[pinecone]

One thing I do with luck is I roll it at the begaining of a scenario (same thing with unluck)...and use the result to modify the tone of the adventure, so if Lucky pierre,canadian extrodinaire rolled 2 pips of luck at the begaining of the scenario then things just go his way...if I have in my notes that someone with skill X makes a roll by X, and noone has it or makes the roll, then luky pierre will stumble onto it. if he needs a contact, he gets ahold of him, no roll needed and that sort of thing. It maintains the intangable elements of luck while still giving good value to the character. And makes "lucky" something the character becomes known for....

[Sociotard]

I was going to post this seperately, but this is a luck related string, so I guess heres as good as anywhere.

 

I just made an excell sheet showing HOW likely you are to roll HOW many sixes with HOW many dice. It's too bad I can't just leave it in Excel.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by pinecone

One thing I do with luck is I roll it at the begaining of a scenario (same thing with unluck)...and use the result to modify the tone of the adventure, so if Lucky pierre,canadian extrodinaire rolled 2 pips of luck at the begaining of the scenario then things just go his way...if I have in my notes that someone with skill X makes a roll by X, and noone has it or makes the roll, then luky pierre will stumble onto it. if he needs a contact, he gets ahold of him, no roll needed and that sort of thing. It maintains the intangable elements of luck while still giving good value to the character. And makes "lucky" something the character becomes known for....

 

I like this. It gets rid of the "time element" issue. You can roll at the start of each scenario, the start of each session or the start of each scene without changing the intrinsic value of the "luck" power itself. Plus, with luck manifesting in minor ways throughout the period, it's not necessary to go to the same improbable lengths a single roll of 6 "luck points" might otherwise seem to demand.

[Farkling]

That's kind of the effect Cory's luck has...as long as those poker chips are laying in front of the character...things will keep going her way...as she trades them in for specific choices/effects/gambles things gradually taper off...

 

I just like having a visual to remind me.

[zornwil]

On a related note, an interesting character entered my game a while back. We didn't have time to really flesh it out as he was just visiting, but it was a neat take on luck.

 

Basically, he set up an MP with some 8 powers IIRC. They included the basics - Energy Blast, some defense thing (Armor I think) - and some oddball things like Summon and a power I can't exactly recall but basically it was sort of a blurred PRE attack. Here's the drill - he could trigger the MP at will but he could NOT choose which one - whichever one went off was random. Furthermore, each one he had no real control over other than naturally they'd be beneficial to him.

 

So here's some examples of play:

 

- when the team he met up with faced Magneto vs X-Men, and joined in with the X-Men vs Magneto, he rolled up the PRE attack-type thing (I'm sorry, I just can't recall what the basis of the power was now exactly); I ruled he was lucky enough to know someone who knew Magneto - and do what he wanted with it! He called to Magneto in that guy's voice (being lucky and having rolled the power, I let that happen, and did a secret roll which indicated a degree to which it was believable - i think I used his luck dice, it's been a while so I don't recall) and Magneto, just having been blinded by Storm, swallowed it hook line and sinker. He encompassed Dice (the lucky character) IN WITH HIM IN A FORCE WALL and helped him "escape"! Then Dice rolled up his EB; he previously had rolled it up and therefore "discovered" an energy blast rifle in the X-Men's vehicle (which he had been in rescueing Xavier). So he took his "lucky shot" and it bounced around the Force Wall, gathering force, and hit Magneto, jarring him somewhat. Of course that ended the ruse, but that had all bought some time and put some damage on Magneto he was completely surprised by (damage bonus). The match ended a draw as Magneto decided to withdraw for a couple reasons.

 

- in the other of 2 sessions the PC played, he was accompanying the team going after Kingpin; unknown to anyone, they were being followed by a brutal vigilante, Wrath, determined to kill Kingpin (though with really good reasons, most people in his circumstance would have wanted to kill Kingpin). He rolled up his Summon or EB (can't recall which) so he got a hefty weapon from Wrath (who was a weapons expert already). This was instrumental in getting one extra hit on Kingpin - he missed once but hit another time.

 

It was really fun, both to observe and GM.

[JmOz]

My method is the one from the book about roll the dice at the begenning and you can use each body point as a reroll.

 

The only thing I do minorly different is anyone with luck gets a couple of counters first...

[pinecone]

I addition to the roll ahead of time thing, I also use the "this is hopeless,will my luck save me (us)" thing....one reason I adopted this method was to avoid the constant annoiance of "can I roll luck?" every 10 mins or so...the character knows how lucky he is and benefits in a tangable way,and sometimes luck Will save him though often even then I don't roll again, I just use a "luck event" the same size that he rolled (such as the 2 pips given in the example) I usually let a new roll happen only if the player/team acted like boobs and are about to die....the old maxwell smart school of tactics...