Question about Combat skill levels and damage

[nexus]

How much was the option to use combat skill levels to increase damage used in your games? A general estimate like "Allot", "occasionally" or "almost never" is fine, I don't need precise numbers.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

How much was the option to use combat skill levels to increase damage used in your games? A general estimate like "Allot"' date=' "occasionally" or "almost never" is fine, I don't need precise numbers.[/quote']

 

Well, the vast majority of games that I've GMed or played in using 5e were superhero games, then the answer for those games is going to be never because that was not an option for superhero games.

 

As for heroic games, those were all convention games that I GMed and occasionally, someone would use levels in that way. But a lot of players in those games were not regular Hero players and I never really played up the damage option as much as I should have.

[archermoo]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Well, the vast majority of games that I've GMed or played in using 5e were superhero games, then the answer for those games is going to be never because that was not an option for superhero games.

 

As for heroic games, those were all convention games that I GMed and occasionally, someone would use levels in that way. But a lot of players in those games were not regular Hero players and I never really played up the damage option as much as I should have.

 

Rod, there was an "add damage" option for Superheroic level games in 5e. It just wasn't the same as the Heroic one.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Not often. I too play superhero games more often than other genres, but skill levels went mainly on CV. I tell you I would have liked (and still would like) to see the option to use skill levels as 'lightning reflexes' as well as CV and damage.

[Nevenall]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

I've very rarely used it or seen it used because people would reach the doubling base damage cap through strength and maneuvers.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

I always used Hit Locations and Heroic CSLs -> damage, and I saw the added damage used a lot. Mostly tactically - one PC grabs, trips, or entangles an enemy, another PC hits them with levels in damage. Also, if someone used Rapid Fire, Sweep, Haymaker, or something else that dropped their DCV, part of the risk was leaving themselves open to a high-powered counterattack.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

A Lot.

 

It's a regular option we exercise when we need extra oomph and have a reasonable belief we don't need the OCV or DCV.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

It was used a lot in our games (FH). The fighters would usually up the damage when they felt that they didn't have to worry as much about avoiding getting hit.

 

JoeG

[rjcurrie]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

I'll admit. I had completely forgotten about the Superhero option.

[torchwolf]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

In my games, it depended on character types and Speed; the higher Speed, the more Combat Skill Levels were used to increase damage.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Constantly. If they have an easy hit and skill levels left over they go into extra damage against tough targets.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

A Lot.

 

It's a regular option we exercise when we need extra oomph and have a reasonable belief we don't need the OCV or DCV.

 

Ditto.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

While we're on that topic, what are the rules for exchanging CSLs for damage in 6e?

 

In earlier editions, being able to exchange two 3-point levels for damage was a too-good deal: 6 points for +1d6, 0 END Cost with a selection of attacks, compared to +1d6, 0 END bought normally at 7.5 points - with no option for exchanging this for OCV bonuses.

 

Of course, with END being repriced at 0.2, I expect that "O END Cost" has been changed to a +1/4 advantage. Or has "Reduced END Cost" been reworked as an adder, as was suggested in the 6e forum?

 

- Klaus

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Two Combat Skill Levels can be used to add 1 Damage Class.

 

Reduced Endurance has not changed.

[archermoo]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Two Combat Skill Levels can be used to add 1 Damage Class.

 

Reduced Endurance has not changed.

 

Well, more accurately two skill levels that are not OCV only can be used for adding 1 DC.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

You can still use [EDIT: two] 3-point CSLs to add +1 DC. According to the new rules for adding damage, there are a few cases when +1 DC may not actually add any dice of damage, but that happens only when you have Advantages that affect how damage is applied, and is pretty uncommon even then (see the charts on 6E2/C&A p. 101).

 

I guess it's still even pretty cost effective to use 3-point CSLs that way. It's the same price as a 0 End Hand Attack, but there's no equivalent for Blast or Killing Attacks, so there you go. The GM might restrict the damage added by Str, maneuvers, velocity, CSLs, etc. in some campaigns, so that might be part of the balancing act.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

2 Pt CSLs however, are OCV Only CSLs and cannot add damage.

[archermoo]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

You can still use 3-point CSLs to add +1 DC. According to the new rules for adding damage, there are a few cases when +1 DC may not actually add any dice of damage, but that happens only when you have Advantages that affect how damage is applied, and is pretty uncommon even then (see the charts on 6E2/C&A p. 101).

 

I guess it's still even pretty cost effective to use 3-point CSLs that way. It's the same price as a 0 End Hand Attack, but there's no equivalent for Blast or Killing Attacks, so there you go. The GM might restrict the damage added by Str, maneuvers, velocity, CSLs, etc. in some campaigns, so that might be part of the balancing act.

 

Yup. They're full combat skill levels, rather than OCV only ones. 2 point levels on the other hand you can only use for OCV.

[director13]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

How much was the option to use combat skill levels to increase damage used in your games? A general estimate like "Allot"' date=' "occasionally" or "almost never" is fine, I don't need precise numbers.[/quote']

 

I play in the "heroic" sandbox, but three out of four of the characters have them, and they when they're not aborting to allocating them to DCV, they teamwork with OCV bonus, then follow up against the Stunned character with damage adds.

 

Every game session or so? A Lot.

[ajackson]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

How common this option is depends on (a) whether people have enough levels to bother, and ( power levels. Basically, reducing your hit chance is worthwhile if you get a greater increase in damage. Looking at normal dice attacks, here's the average damage required for it to be worth buying damage, for hit chances from 10- to 17-, assuming normal dice:

10-: 3.8 damage (after defenses)

11-: 5.2 damage

12-: 7.3 damage

13-: 10 damage

14-: 16 damage

15-: 26 damage

16-: 43 damage

17-: 80 damage

 

If you're doing 6d6 against a target with 15 defense, leaking through 6 damage a shot, it's worth spending levels if you'd hit on a 12- normally. If you're doing 12d6 against a target with 30 defense, it's not worthwhile until you have a 14- hit chance. Also, if you have maneuvers, it's often better to use a more powerful but less accurate maneuver rather than spending levels.

[Vondy]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

I run heroic games and allow it.

 

I've taditionally used a quicky house rule of 4 Points of CSLs = 1 DC.

 

I'm not sure what I'll do in 6e as I haven't seen the rules yet.

 

Most of my players seldom used the option.

 

I and one more "option aware" player did so semi-regularly.

 

It works better in more mundane games where damage increasing options aren't available.*

 

*find weakness, deadly blow, additional DCs for martial arts, etc.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

I've taditionally used a quicky house rule of 4 Points of CSLs = 1 DC.

 

Meaning two 2-point levels is +1 DC, one 5-point level is +1 DC, one 8-point level is +2 DCs? Interesting approach if so. Hmm.

[Vondy]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Meaning two 2-point levels is +1 DC' date=' one 5-point level is +1 DC, one 8-point level is +2 DCs?[/quote']

 

Yes.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Reduced Endurance has not changed.

That's madness!

 

The cost of Reduced END (provided no other advantages) is 5 points per 1 END less (60 points active, Half END Cost: +15 points for reducing END Cost by 3; 60 points active, 0 END Cost: +30 points for reducing END Cost by 6).

 

END is now only 0.2 points. For 5 points you can get 25 END, which is good for 25 uses - and the END can be used for other powers as well.

 

- Klaus

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

 

Reduced Endurance has to look at more than the Cost of Endurance if you want to seriously compare it to things.

 

The Endurance Cost of a Power not only depends on how much Endurance you have, but how much you can Recover, and how often you can use it.

 

But ultimately - it's really granularity.

 

Without breaking the fractions down further than quarters Reduced Endurance only has two steps:

 

+1/4 - Half

+1/2 - 0 END.

 

Anyways, I usually grow tired of your math about now, so I'll let you have your madness and continue on my happy way.