Arcing Lightning Bolt Spell

[PerennialRook]

I'm building a fantasy hero wizard. I'm not having much trouble building most of his spells, but there is one effect that I don't know quite how to build. I want a lightning bolt spell that has a limited distance that it can travel, but can hit multiple targets until it has reached it's max distance.

 

10 goblins are surrounding Vehren the Wizard, and another goblin stands a small distance back. Lightning springs forth from Vehren as he gestures and chants jumping towards one goblin in the circle then turning to pass through the rest of them, before finally jumping out to hit the goblin who had been standing a little further off. This last goblin, having seen it hit all the others, dives for cover, and the lightning bolt, which had been arcing towards where he had stood, turned to hit him, though didn't have the energy to reach him. Seeing the 10 dead and dying goblins on the ground the last goblin runs for his life, though is engulfed in flames before he can get around a corner and out of sight of the Wizard. Vehren, now exausted, takes a few moments to rest.

 

I was thinking about building it as a 10d6 (page 299 lightning bolt damage) Energy Blast with a Selective Area of Effect Line (double distance). Is there any sort of advantage that I can use to say that I can turn the line?

 

-Preston

[Talon]

There isn't, so I would just buy it as AOE Radius Selective, with a Limitation that it can only affect a certain number of targets (that Limitation may be worth -0 depending on the number of targets) based on arc distance.

[Hugh Neilson]

You might consider an area effect radius with the selective advantage defining the special effect as a lightning bolt that arcs about within the radius.

 

Alternatively, you could take the "any area" area of effect, but I believe that's a lot less area, if your GM will accept the twisty, turny bolt being a legitimate use of the "any area" construct.

 

The first is probably more efficient. You could make it "no range", which would mean the effect must always center on your hex, or limit the range such that you must be somewhere in the area (which is where the arc will begin) for -1/4.

[PerennialRook]

There isn't, so I would just buy it as AOE Radius Selective, with a Limitation that it can only affect a certain number of targets (that Limitation may be worth -0 depending on the number of targets) based on arc distance.

 

A 10d6 Energy blast will have a 5" AOE Radius, whereas it will have a 20" AOE Line. If I built it as a AOE Radius how would I hit one goblin 20" away?

 

Alternatively, you could take the "any area" area of effect, but I believe that's a lot less area, if your GM will accept the twisty, turny bolt being a legitimate use of the "any area" construct.

 

That would give me a total of 5".

 

Really all I need to know is what the cost of an advantage that would enable a AOE Line to turn would be.

 

-Preston

[Lord Liaden]

How to handle this would depend somewhat on the accuracy you want the attack to have. If you want the bolt to be able to hit one person out of two or more standing in the same hex, AoE Radius with Selective Target sounds best. If you just want the bolt to pass through a hex and take out anyone in it, go with AoE Any Area and just bend the area around the hexes you don't want to hit.

 

Another possibility would be to buy a bunch of CSLs Only for Bouncing, and see if your GM will let you Bounce the bolt off one goblin that you hit and into another.

[eepjr24]

Originally posted by PerennialRook

Really all I need to know is what the cost of an advantage that would enable a AOE Line to turn would be.

 

-Preston

 

I thought people were pretty clear before, but here goes again: There is no such advantage. If you want one, have your GM create it as a house rule. Not trying to be antagonistic, just making the point.

 

Personally, I would buy it with "Area Affect: Any", double the size 2 times, and then buy AE: One Hex Accurate for it as well, then slap a limitation on it "Only up to x targets". This would give you a 20" line of continuous hexes that can turn, twist, or even double back on itself. It will hit x number of people unless they dive for cover or manage to dodge your attack roll versus a base DCV of 3.

 

As always, YMMV.

 

- Ernie

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by PerennialRook

A 10d6 Energy blast will have a 5" AOE Radius, whereas it will have a 20" AOE Line. If I built it as a AOE Radius how would I hit one goblin 20" away?

 

 

 

That would give me a total of 5".

 

Really all I need to know is what the cost of an advantage that would enable a AOE Line to turn would be.

 

-Preston

 

Effectively, +1/2. Apply that to increase the area of AoE: Any Area x4. Your 5" of area ends up as 20 hexes that you can string end-to-end to form a 20" line, which you can then warp around to hit multiple targets in sequence.

[bjbrown]

It sounds like you're trying to re-create Chain Lightning from Dungeons and Dragons. When converting spells from that game to Hero, keep in mind that AD&D magic was not very as balanced (or, at least, AD&D and Hero have different ways of balancing powers). Thus, while its possible to convert anything from AD&D to Hero, when you convert the more powerful AD&D spells you might run into situations in which an accurate conversion into Hero costs way more active or real points than acceptable.

That in mind, the Any Area advantage for the attack is probably your best bet. Increase the area until you have a the total hexes with which you are comfortable (or perhaps the most you can afford). Then, you can simulate some of the other Chain Lightning rules with limitations. "X targets no more than Y hexes apart with no intervening obstacles" might combine to be a -½ limitation, and losing a DC of effectiveness per target might be -½ (assuming that you have a reasonable chance of getting multiple targets and the DC will be down to around half by the last target). If you buy Any Area, you don't need Selective, since defining the area will select your targets. (Technically this leaves open the possibility that you could have two potential targets in the same hex, and not have the option of hitting one and avoiding the other- but this would be a rare case, and your GM would probably cut you a break on the situation based on the special effects of the spell.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by bjbrown

If you buy Any Area, you don't need Selective, since defining the area will select your targets. (Technically this leaves open the possibility that you could have two potential targets in the same hex, and not have the option of hitting one and avoiding the other- but this would be a rare case, and your GM would probably cut you a break on the situation based on the special effects of the spell.

 

Of course, you may also use up some of your hexes dodging around a non-target between two desired targets. Any Area is going to be expensive. Radius, selective is also going to be expensive. The ability to hit a large number of targets while avoiding others in the way is a powerful effect, so it will be costly. 10d6 is a lot of dice for FH, so that will also be costly.

 

The power you describe inm your example (and which several posters have set out a mechanic for) can readily eliminate 20 opponents in a single shot - I hope you weren't expecting it to be inexpensive!

 

The Radius effect has the advantage of a potentially larger number of targets affected (or a reduced cost for limiting the targets), but requires Selective, meaning you will have to roll to hit. To be able to hit someone 20" away, you need to extend the radius. How much depends on whether you also take No Range. For an extra +1/2, I'd let you apply the "accurate" advantage and hit the hex(es) instead.

 

You could use a conic area to have a limited arc of fire, but a greater base distance.

 

The Any Area is also a valid construct, with the drawback that you will cover less overall distance with the power (or need more area doublings).

 

Line works only if you are using a straight line (conventional lightning bolt, not chain lightning).

[prestidigitator]

Spread that EB!

 

Energy Blasts can be spread as part of the basic rules. Why not just give yourself a few extra dice, and spread it to hit multiple targets? If you really want the easy hex DCV and the possibility for Dive for Cover, give it a One Hex Area of Effect, and still spread it.

 

You could probably even limit the extra dice so they can ONLY be used to spread (never provide extra damage). Then if you REALLY wanted to get restrictive, limit the original attack dice so they CANNOT be used to spread. This would give you an attack which can be used to hit from 1 to n targets (hexes), and always does the same damage to each.

[DigitalGolem]

Have you considered another approach?

 

An indirect autofire EB, w/accurate & skipover sprayfire might also work for this, and you wouldn't necessarily need an area of effect. This would also simulate the "exhausting" aspect of the spell, as every shot racks up more endurance. Another option I've personally used is just to buy a bigger EB, and take a "must spread for area" limitation. Or just skip the limitation so you can use it all on one target when you need to.

 

I looked at several other possibilities, but none of them were "legal" constructs. Except for the mega-scale one-hex (+3/4) version. You might get the results you want that way, but I'd recommend the "personal immunity" advantage and some well-insulated allies!

 

Mmmm, extra-crispy goblins....

 

DGv3.0

[Black Rose]

I was going to mention the autofire option, but DigitalGolem beat me to it. The effect you want is an attack that hits multiple targets (unless the DFC) out to a certain distance, and then peters out. This sounds like DG's "indirect autofire EB, w/accurate & skipover sprayfire" to me. If you want to be anal about it, you can always deconstruct accurate and skipover sprayfire into ther components, add them to the base power (which I'd do as an RKA, myself) and let all limitations affect the point total.

 

Sounds like a nifty bringover, though.

[PerennialRook]

As a follow up question: How many d6's of flash to sight and sound would you put on a lightening bolt?

 

-Preston

[PerennialRook]

Also, can I take the visible limitation twice on the spell? Once for making it "noisy" and the second time for the thunder and bright flash of the lightning.

 

-Preston

[Crimson Arrow]

Most powers are automatically visible to three senses. Some such as Armour, Density Increase and Mental Powers are not visible to three senses, but may take the Visible Limitation. For example, Steel-Man visibly turns into organic steel, so his Density Increase is Visible and gets the Limitation.

 

The spell you are describing would be visible to Sight and Hearing anyway, plus one more sense (probably Detect Magic, in a fantasy campaign).

 

On the Flash Question, not many dice, if I did it at all. Logically, this should radiate out, not just affect the people struck by the bolt. Which means the mage himself, or his allies, could be affected. You can buy the power with Personal Immunity, but that won't help his comrades.

 

I'd probably treat this as a special effect. It's a little more easily noticed than a fireball, perhaps, but in a confined space, it might have a small Flash effect to Hearing, say.

[PerennialRook]

The spell you are describing would be visible to Sight and Hearing anyway, plus one more sense (probably Detect Magic, in a fantasy campaign).

 

GMB pg. 202 "In some circumstances, characters can also take Visible for powers which are ordinarily visible to simulate the fact that those Powers are much more perceptable than normal (for example, a "Lightning Bolt" Energy Blast which causes a thunderclap audible up to a mile away)."

 

Yes, it acually uses the Lightning Bolt example.

 

Also GMB pg. 202 "For example, this Limitation (renamed "Noisy") is often used for magic spells in fantasy campaigns, to simulate the fact that any wizard or "sensitive' person in the vicinity can detect the spell as it is being cast."

 

Since both of these apply to this particular spell, I'm wondering if I can take them both, even though technically they are the same limitation.

 

The flashes I want to build as a Side Effect (Minor, affects both character and environment, occurs automatically whenever power is used; -1). Which means I need 37 Active Points worth of Flash. which works out to a Sight Group Flash 4d6 plus a Normal Hearing Flash 5 1/2d6.

 

-Preston

[prestidigitator]

Flashes are pointless now anyway, since you still count normal Body, and they last for a number of Segments, not Phases. I don't care if it costs half as much. They are way less than half as useful in 5th ed.

 

My house rules still have Flash lasting a number of Phases, and use the old cost (half for non-targetting senses).

[PerennialRook]

Lightning Bolt: Energy Blast 10d6, Area of Effect (40" Any Area; +1 3/4), Selective (+1/4) (150 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), OAF (-1), Gestures (Requires Both Hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Requires Magic Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4), Visible (-1/4), Concentration (O DCV; -1/2), Side Effect (Sight Group Flash 4d6 plus Normal Hearing Flash 5 1/2d6; -1). Total Cost: 26 points.

 

(My GM discounts spells to half price for "True Spellcasters." So I only pay 13 points for a 10d6 AOE Energy Blast.)

[Crimson Arrow]

Sorry, should have checked the book instead of relying on memory!

 

My instinct would be to allow the power to be extra visible once only, or else it could really be open to abuse.

 

As I haven't got the book here, I'll refrain from commenting on the Side Effect. All I would say is that makes it very risky, although maybe a powerful spell like this should be.

[PerennialRook]

My instinct would be to allow the power to be extra visible once only, or else it could really be open to abuse.

 

I agree in principle, though in this case I am talking about two different types of "Extra Visible." Not discounting it once for a bright flash and a second time for the thunderclap and a third time... Rather once because it is visible to magic users and again because it is extra visible to normal senses.

 

-Preston

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

Sorry, should have checked the book instead of relying on memory!

 

My instinct would be to allow the power to be extra visible once only, or else it could really be open to abuse.

 

As I haven't got the book here, I'll refrain from commenting on the Side Effect. All I would say is that makes it very risky, although maybe a powerful spell like this should be.

 

I would tend to agree - and that means visible from a mile away, as per the book. Once someone can hear the thunder from a mile away, it's not really any more limiting that mages can sense it being used a mile away as well. Thunder on a clear day is a pretty clear indicator of magic at work.

 

I'd consider allowing it if the "noisy" includes mages knowing to a very close distance where the magic is being used, as that would add an extra disadvantage.

[mattingly]

Digital Hero #10 included an article on different types of Areas Of Effect, including AOE: Random, which sounds perfect for the Chain Lightning effect.

[Sketchpad]

Personally, I'd go with DG's Indirect solution myself ... but I'd also make the power in question a RKA and not an EB

[PerennialRook]

Personally, I'd go with DG's Indirect solution myself ... but I'd also make the power in question a RKA and not an EB

I like the AOE any area, it is specificaly what I was looking for. As for making it an RKA, I was going off of the GMB's listed damage for a lightning bolt. Don't worry, his inferno and fireball will both be RKA's, both as continuous uncontrolled 3d6 RKA explosions (the inferno is no range in a conic explosion).