DC check

[Ninja-Bear]

Hello Y'all,

 

I have a quick question or two about DC checks in D&D (I think the module is 3rd ed.)

 

• What are the rolls based on ? (characteristics, Skills)
  
• What die is the roll based on ? (D20, D10)
  
• Roughly how hard is each DC ? (DC 10,vs DC 25)
  

I'm not looking for an exact match to Hero terms, just a generalization.

 

Thanks in advance.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: DC check

 

I have a quick question or two about DC checks in D&D (I think the module is 3rd ed.)

 

• What are the rolls based on ? (characteristics, Skills)
  
• What die is the roll based on ? (D20, D10)
  
• Roughly how hard is each DC ? (DC 10,vs DC 25)

 

Checks in D20 can relate either to Characteristics or Skills. Characteristic checks are d20+characteristic bonus, and Skill checks are d20+skill bonus+characteristic bonus.

 

Generally speaking, a DC of 5 would be very easy (requiring only a decent die roll), and a DC of 25 would be very hard (requiring both a good die roll and a bonus).

[Legendsmiths]

Re: DC check

 

I've been running Hero D&D for a number of years and have a rule of thumb.

 

+5 DC = +3 Hero

 

15 DC = 11- roll

 

These guidelines work very well. I run all Dungeon Crawl Classics adventures.

 

I've collected my notes for my campaign here: https://sites.google.com/a/tekhed.com/wilderlands/main/encounters/converting-d20-challenges

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: DC check

 

Thanks for the replies. Mudpyr8, that was a gut reaction I had, and I'll use it

[Markdoc]

Re: DC check

 

Also, if you are converting D20 adventurers be aware that it's possible for D20 characters to get very high rolls, whereas with Hero, the bell-shaped curve makes very high rolls unusual.

 

For example, while I agree that a DC15 check is about 11- in Hero terms, you can't just apply a direct +5 DC = +3 to a Hero skill roll. Our characters are about 8th level and for their better skills routinely roll 30DC checks (in fact my martial artist can't fail a DC check of 30 on something like Jump, which isn't even his best skill). That corresponds to a Hero roll of 20- (!) using that formula.

 

The reason is that it's relatively easy to get big bonuses in D20 - a +10 is not unusual, while in Hero system, a +2 is often a big deal. In addition, it's assumed that players will have access to items that boost their skill rolls. That means that in mid - to high level adventures, DC checks of 30+ are not that unusual - but they are not intended to be absolute killer challenges, just difficult. Higher level DC challenges may need to be scaled back, to make them accessible to Hero characters.

 

cheers, Mark

[Armitage]

Re: DC check

 

Another good comparison is the skill difficulty charts in D&D and Hero.

Page 64 in the 3.5 Player's Handbook and page 45 in Hero System Fifth Edition, Revised.

 

D&D

Very Easy (DC 0)

Easy (DC 5)

Average (DC 10)

Tough (DC 15)

Challenging (DC 20)

Formidable (DC 25)

Heroic (DC 30)

Nearly Impossible (DC 40)

 

Hero

Routine, +3 to +5

Easy, +1 to +3

Average, +0

Difficult, -1 to -3

Extremely Difficult, -3 to -5

Sheer Folly, -5 or more

Incredible Feat, -10 with at least an 18- Skill (Extraordinary Skill rules)

 

Very Easy, Easy, Average and Tough seem to map pretty well to Routine, Easy, Average, and Difficult. Challenging and Formidable could be split between various levels of Extremely Difficult. Heroic becomes Sheer Folly, and Nearly Impossible requires an Extraordinary Skill roll.

[ghost-angel]

Re: DC check

 

Also, if you are converting D20 adventurers be aware that it's possible for D20 characters to get very high rolls, whereas with Hero, the bell-shaped curve makes very high rolls unusual.

 

For example, while I agree that a DC15 check is about 11- in Hero terms, you can't just apply a direct +5 DC = +3 to a Hero skill roll. Our characters are about 8th level and for their better skills routinely roll 30DC checks (in fact my martial artist can't fail a DC check of 30 on something like Jump, which isn't even his best skill). That corresponds to a Hero roll of 20- (!) using that formula.

 

The reason is that it's relatively easy to get big bonuses in D20 - a +10 is not unusual, while in Hero system, a +2 is often a big deal. In addition, it's assumed that players will have access to items that boost their skill rolls. That means that in mid - to high level adventures, DC checks of 30+ are not that unusual - but they are not intended to be absolute killer challenges, just difficult. Higher level DC challenges may need to be scaled back, to make them accessible to Hero characters.

 

cheers, Mark

 

If you take into account Situational Modifiers, being able to routinely complete a DC30+ Task in Hero may require a Skill Roll of 20-.

 

I don't think it's actually all that far out of range.

[gojira]

Re: DC check

 

Curious: what does "DC" check mean? What does the acronym DC stand for?

[ghost-angel]

Re: DC check

 

Difficulty Class

[gojira]

Re: DC check

 

Danke!

[SuperPheemy]

Re: DC check

 

My explanation goes kind of "behind the screen" that is, I try to tailor my target numbers based on the amount of Dramatic Tension I wish to create in the challenge.

 

For routine tasks with nearly no chance of failure, I often either don't require a roll, or if the consequences for failure are particularly dramatic, I ask for a roll and simply assign failure on an extremely bad roll (1 on a d20, 18 on 3d6 or a level or two of Unluck).

 

For easy tasks, those challenging for normal folk, but something a hero (that is a PC) should manage with a little effort, I aim for a 25% fail ratio. That would be a 5 or less on a d20 (after all modifiers are accounted for) or around 12 or 13- on 3d6.

 

For harder tasks, such as those with a 50/50 chance of success, I set the target number at around 11 on a d20 (after all modifiers are accounted for) or a 10- on 3d6.

 

Really tough tasks (dare I say Heroic?) that require great effort and/or planning on the part of the PC gets a 15 on a d20 or a 8- on 3d6.

 

Then truly legendary efforts get a Natural 20 a 3 on 3d6, or a level or two of luck.

 

From a d20 perspective, the actual numbers have to scale with the ability of the character in question. a 1st level character with a total bonus (from characteristics, skills, etc..) of +10 would have a DC of 20 for a 50% chance of success. A 20th level character with a bonus of +50 would have a DC of 60. In HERO, I'd simply apply some minor modifiers if any to bring the target number to around 10- (really, anything in the 9- to 11- range.)

 

Now, this strategy requires some decision making on the part of the Game Master. Be aware of the character making the roll. Jumping across a narrow rooftop should be no problem for "the greatest thief in the city" (and I wouldn't require anything more sever than a simple "check for catastrophic disaster" roll), but might be a critical challenge for the decrepit, ancient sage who can barely walk, or the stumpy dwarf wearing 300 pounds of metal plates.

[Markdoc]

Re: DC check

 

If you take into account Situational Modifiers, being able to routinely complete a DC30+ Task in Hero may require a Skill Roll of 20-.

 

I don't think it's actually all that far out of range.

 

Yeah, but my point was that for Mid-level characters in D&D a DC30 check isn't that hard - at least for their better skills. If it maps to a 20- roll either the PCs in a hero setting have very high rolls, or the GM is getting pretty generous with the situational modifiers (or they have some really cool gear). Because of the way Hero is built around a bell shaped curve, it maps OK to D&D in the middle range but you need to look at the rolls a bit more carefully at the extreme ends.

 

cheers, Mark