What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

[Naanomi]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I like Drain STR... for strong guys, it cuts out their main oomph... for weak guys it means they can't carry their own costume without being encumbered. Naked guys tend to be strong guys... not a huge number of 'naked mentalists' to worry about.

[RexMundi]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Drain, Follower. Buh Bye Side Kick! heh....

 

~Rex

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I am a Aid/Drain/Transfer guy with a sword. The other two are a sneak/mindcontrol/desolification guy and a sneak/techno/VPP guy.

 

Both are generally the same Stat Wise. Low (8-13) Str, Con, Body and Pre, with good Int, Ego and Dex of 20+. And we are all Spd 4. We are using Hero System 5th Edition. Both have 0 power defense.

 

Int is probably the best bet. Once they are below 0 they will not be able to effectively get away and I can sword smack them KO.

 

Since you're playing Hero 5th, EGO is 2 per, while INT is 1 per, so of those two, I'd go with INT.

 

But why go with "incapacitate"? Why not go with "Divide and Conquer"?

 

If you're willing to go with Transfer instead of Drain, I suggest giving yourself a "Godlike Aura":

1d6 Transfer, Affects two Characteristics at once (EGO + PRE; +1/2), feeds to your PRE, Maximum +42 (total = 48; costs +22). Area Effect: Radius (something like 5", so you can hit both at once, plus any of their agents or other bystanders nearby). If I did my math correctly, this is 90 active points and costs 9 END.

 

Timed right (with lots of people around you), you should get up to max in one shot, and they'll all be down a few points. And while your two teammates have high EGO, I doubt their agents will, leaving them more likely to follow your commands... like saying "Dude #2's minions: attack Dude #1!" and vice versa.

 

Nothing like taking over their own followers.

 

Edit: I'm assuming you have a PRE of 12 or more; this would max you out with 50 PRE. If you're underhanded enough beforehand (like telling Dude 1's minions that you heard Dude 2's men discussing tactics for taking Dude 1 down, and vice versa), you should be able to get a few additional dice of PRE attack too.

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

If you're willing to go with Transfer instead of Drain' date=' I suggest giving yourself a "Godlike Aura": 1d6 Transfer, Affects two Characteristics at once (EGO + PRE; +1/2), feeds to your PRE, Maximum +42 (total = 48; costs +22). Area Effect: Radius (something like 5", so you can hit both at once, plus any of their agents or other bystanders nearby). If I did my math correctly, this is 90 active points and costs 9 END.[/quote']

I already have a power like that. 2d6 Transfer, PRE to STUN, Area Effect (Non discriminatory). It is how I figured out they both had no Power Defense. Or, at least they used to not have it.

 

I was looking for the rule on how to buy up the maximum effect, but could not find it, so was going with Drain. It is really handy on Agent level guys. One use and they are either scared, or running. If anyone could point me to that rule, I would be thankful. (Maybe in the Adjustment Powers part in the front??)

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Buying a 60 pressense would have a similar effect

5th Edition pg 288 Pessense Attacks

[薔薇語]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Drain PRE is my vote. I don't know what the average PC in your all's games has for a PRE, but the ones I run across don't typically have high PRE (at least compared to the active point / DC cap of the game).

 

Assuming a 75pt Active Point Cap:

 

(75 Active Points) Drain PRE 3d6, Only Works in regard to attacker (+1/2)*, Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1).

 

You can only directly effect one person at a time with this. Though it does 10 to 11 pts of PRE drain a turn while being invisible. *I pegged this advantage as being a plus 1/2, YMMV. What does 10-11pts per attack mean? If you rapid fire it, you can get 21 pts of effect fairly easily. Then you use a PRE attack as a free action to tell the person effect to "Defend me or..." That person is down by 21pts of PRE, it is unlikely that they will be resisting you to any real degree. Average PC might have a total PRE (counting defense) of what: 23-30? Why have on the * adder? Because it gives you the option of using PRE attacks on the target without them becoming vulnerable to others. Why go after PRE and not the other stats which could have a notable effect on their combat readiness? Because this version allows you to manipulate them and use their full INT, STR, etc to your advantage.

 

All said and done, though, this does mimic MC more than I'd normally allow a PC but since you are limited to those three powers, I might let you get away with it. Also, it would be more effective, in general, to just buy a super high PRE (75pt PRE = 15dice). Draw back to that is that you can't add nearly as many limitations to it to bring down the costs. Also It has an upper limit of effect, Drain does too, kind of. It's upper limit is vastly more effective because it reduced the target to 0 PRE and totally susceptible to you. Also, it runs into the same problem that MC has in that it isn't one of your pre-defined set.

 

The other option that I like is to buy a Transfer (if using 5th ed) to drain their PRE while adding directly to yours. You can simulate this in 6e as well, but if you are limited to a single slot in a MP and have a decent PRE already, then go with Drain alone.

 

La Rose.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I already have a power like that. 2d6 Transfer, PRE to STUN, Area Effect (Non discriminatory). It is how I figured out they both had no Power Defense. Or, at least they used to not have it.

 

I was looking for the rule on how to buy up the maximum effect, but could not find it, so was going with Drain. It is really handy on Agent level guys. One use and they are either scared, or running. If anyone could point me to that rule, I would be thankful. (Maybe in the Adjustment Powers part in the front??)

 

I don't have my book with me at work, but I'm about 80% sure it's in the Adjustment Powers part in the front.

 

Agreed about the Agent level guys -- that's why I made my writeup Area Effect.

 

But going PRE to PRE means that you're kinda getting double the effect.

 

And yes, Matt is right, you could just buy up your PRE, but a Transfer appears (at least to me) to fit your character concept better.

 

Of course, having a naturally higher-than-normal PRE wouldn't hurt either.

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

....Then you use a PRE attack as a free action to tell the person effect to "Defend me or..." That person is down by 21pts of PRE' date=' it is unlikely that they will be resisting you to any real degree. Average PC might have a total PRE (counting defense) of what: 23-30? Why have on the * adder? Because it gives you the option of using PRE attacks on the target without them becoming vulnerable to others. Why go after PRE and not the other stats which could have a notable effect on their combat readiness? Because this version allows you to manipulate them and use their full INT, STR, etc to your advantage. [/quote']

I had decided against PRE because according to the 5E rules, you can use EGO or PRE to resist Presense attacks, so I would have to do twice the work to get them to obey. Dropping PRE could get them to run away probably at negative PRE, but I want to knock them out and take them back to the Boss.

 

Broadsword -|--->

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Intelligence, Ego, and Presence are good targets for Drain.

 

IMOHO

 

QM

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Lucky, my GM let's us do minor re-writes for powers and stuff we haven't used "in game" yet. I'm reworking so my Character, Skabb, has a Transfer of PRE -> PRE, a Drain of INT and a Drain of SPD, plus Aid that goes to PRE and another that goes to DEX. So I will be a fast PRE heavy combat monkey, while my opponents will be scared and stupid.

 

Broadsword -|--->

[薔薇語]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I can't recall of hand and only have my copy of 6e handy. If you drain Int to 0, doesn't EGO necessarily fall to 0? Vice versa as well. Or is that perhaps me confusing more than one game system? Why is this important? Int is cheaper in 5e to drain than Ego. The concern is that at 0 int, a target might be able to do things, just irrationally. I think the fact that they have 0 EGO as well causes them to loose all will and motivation, thus becoming actionless.

 

La Rose.

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

5E says...

 

At 0 Int you continue doing what you were already doing. An Int roll is required to do anything else.

 

At 0 Ego you need to make an Ego roll to act each phase. You need to make an Ego roll to resist any order from anyone.

 

At 0 Pre you need to make a Pre roll each phase to act or remain in the face of any threat, or else run away.

 

The problem with Int is that if they are fighting you, they will continue to do so. With Ego it is simply more expensive. With Pre they will run away.

 

Broadsword -|--->

[Nevenall]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I can't recall of hand and only have my copy of 6e handy. If you drain Int to 0, doesn't EGO necessarily fall to 0? Vice versa as well. Or is that perhaps me confusing more than one game system? Why is this important? Int is cheaper in 5e to drain than Ego. The concern is that at 0 int, a target might be able to do things, just irrationally. I think the fact that they have 0 EGO as well causes them to loose all will and motivation, thus becoming actionless.

 

La Rose.

 

INT and EGO don't have any connection if one is drained to 0.

At INT 0 you can't take any new actions, you just keep doing what you were doing before. At EGO 0 you will do what ever anyone tells you to do.

0 INT and EGO is total GM territory.

Maybe you can order the target around but they have to make an INT roll to understand you command.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

5E says...

 

At 0 Int you continue doing what you were already doing. An Int roll is required to do anything else.

 

The problem with Int is that if they are fighting you, they will continue to do so.

 

I think you are giving them too much leeway. They would have to continue fighting in the exact same manner they were fighting. If they flew 10" forward, then fired an Energy Blast, last phase, with all levels in OCV and none in DCV, they must continue to fly in that direction at 10" per phase (not land or change direction), firing the same energy blast (not a new attack; not for more or less dice; not spread any more or any less), with the same allocation of levels until they can make that INT roll and change actions.