What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

[Broadsword]

I am playing in a fairly low powered Champions style game in a Wild Cards themed campaign. I have a Transfer/Aid/Drain character. We are playing bad guys, so my character is working on a Drain to add to his Multipower that will drop other hero level people. It most probably will be used on his comrades in the near future the way things are going. So far I am thinking Drain: SPD with 1d6, comulative and persistant and area effect. That will allow me to hit those next to me no problem and then allow damage to their SPD to compound each phase, right? But, would End or Str be a better "Drop" stat to hit? Or even "Running"? I can easily beat the other PCs physically, but not if they can use all their special gimicks. So, I need them to be slowed down or stopped. Dex is a good choice, but will be very slow to Drain. I am using 1d6 due to Multipower point limitiations with all the Adders I want to layer on top. Any other good suggestions?

 

Broadsword -|--->

[Cygnia]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I had a character with a CON Drain that was fairly bastardly...

[Ice9]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

SPD is probably the best for being comprehensive - it will stop anybody, no matter their powers - but it's somewhat slow to drain. STR works well against brick types, but fails against many others. Running isn't even always going to work on bricks - many have Leaping, and it won't do much against ranged types, even those without flight/teleportation. END counts as a defensive power for adjustment purposes, so you aren't getting quite as good a bargain - d6 Drain will only be dropping 9 a phase.

[Nevenall]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

INT is a cheap thing to Drain. Once they reach 0 they basically have to make an INT roll at 9- to take any action. Or at 0 PRE they have to make a roll at 9- to not run away.

Most characters will probably have about 1/2 as many points worth of INT or PRE as they do SPD.

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I thought of Int, Ego and Pre. The problem with Pre is that I don't want them running away. And my fear with Int is that they will use some trick to get around it, like overall skill levels or luck of something. They have too high an Ego and it costs too much to Drain it.

 

I did not know End was considered a Def Stat for Drains.

 

Question: Does persistant allow damage for a Rangeless power after a hit, even if those affected run for it?

 

Thanks for the answers!

 

Broadsword -|--->

[Greywind]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Body. Nothing incapacitates like a funeral...

[Rapier]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I've always found INT drains to be the most effective. With a 0 INT you have to make INT rolls to perform any action. Roll 9- to stand. Roll 9- to move. Roll 9- to attack. It gets unlikely. 6E doesn't have conventions for negative characteristics anymore, but as a GM I would most likely allow the trend to continue (eg if INT = -10, Roll = 9 + (-10 / 5) = 7).

 

DEX drains won't stop mental attacks and a buttload of levels or AoE attacks still make hitting not ludicrously difficult (technically a 0 DEX stops you from aiming, but there is some debate about how much 'aiming' is required for AoE attacks or perhaps the character was ALREADY aiming, etc). STR drains won't stop any attacks. CON Drains only step END expenditures, but won't stop END Reserve powered attacks, attacks with Charges or 0 END. EGO Drains are rather effective but there is a huge loophole in that the character will most likely do whatever they are told (eg Attack him).

 

EGO Drains (as second best) remove the players control of his character. He will simply do whatever he/she is told. An INT Drain stops the character from performing ANY action (including saving himself). A character on fire (with a 0 INT) will stand there and burn. At the end of the day, the only really good way to incapacitate someone with a Drain is to Drain INT.

[Beast]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

if you can get it to last a while

drain REC

it will make most characters a bit more cautious as now they will have to really watch how they spend end and take stun damage

[Badger]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

if you can get it to last a while

drain REC

it will make most characters a bit more cautious as now they will have to really watch how they spend end and take stun damage

 

assuming the characters know their REC has been drained.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

i'd say strength example green krytonite draining superman

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

yep strength is still the best deal

there must be some negative where they can't move

[megaplayboy]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

6d6 SPD drain will wipe out 2 points of SPD at a time, even 3d6 with AoE will have a significant impact on any combat--people who lose phases are people you can drain again. Dropping from a 6 to a 5 really sucks, and dropping from a 4 to a 3 or 2 will put a brick in a really bad spot. Once they drop to 0, of course, they are effectively incapacitated.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

yep strength is still the best deal

there must be some negative where they can't move

 

It takes a long time to Drain the brick to that point. INT tends to be more direct. It's 1 CP, so it drains quickly, you see a lot of 10 - 20 INT characters and not a lot of 40+ INT characters and once they hit 0, they just stand around and do nothing.

 

Shell out of the "any one characteristic at a time" advantage and you can customize to the target.

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

As I discovered if the intelligence is drained, the just keep doing whatever the where previously doing.

If there where shooting at you, they keep shooting at you.

 

sure might take a long time to drain a brick of strength

but I'll take the reduced damage in the mean time

[RexMundi]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Presence. Fear the Paper Tiger for his Roar is mighty Indeed.

 

~Rex

[megaplayboy]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Or you could drain EGO. Nobody but a mage or a mentalist is likely to have more than 20 points of it, and most will have 15 or less. So you can drain it to 0 in 1 or 2 shots with an AoE. PRE, you're more likely to see a variety of PCs with 20+, and INT as well. Any of the 6 "primary" stats will tend to incapacitate a PC once their level hits 0.

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

While Rapier makes a good case for Int, I am tending to agree with Matt. I don't want them acting at all. I think since this is going to be part of a multipower, I could double up and build two powers. One, to drain Int quickly and make them stupid, and a second Drain to drop their SPD and immoblize them.

 

Broadsword -|--->

[Beast]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

true

you could have the drain affect REC,STUN,and END at the same time

 

the basis could be Lactiic acid using DMSO as a carrier agent

could even be an NND vs sealed enviroment or non-biological construct

 

 

assuming the characters know their REC has been drained.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I had a character many, many years ago-- I used to mention him more often when I was here a couple years ago, and hadn't thought too much about him since.

 

For those not familiar with him, he was the (and I mean "_the_" ) uberbrick for a group I used to play under. I never liked the character much (my first Champs character forever), but the GM and other players liked him so much that I finally had to leave that group to retire him. At that point, he really was a pen-and-paper god: totally unplayable because he was so stupidly overbalanced.

 

At any rate, one character ( a "spy in our midst" campaign) managed to do what no one else in years and years of playing him did:

 

He was brought to a complete stop against his will by a Drain targeting only his 14 INT.

 

While Drain: Pre has it's charm, most players I've known either buy up their PRE or buy a "presence defense" build. Even if you drain away twenty PRE, the defense (if bought) still stands in their favor, in addition to Power Defense (if they have that).

 

As someone noted above, few players run INT over 18-20, and not a lot of them go that high. Power Defense or not, Drain: INT seems to consistently offer the best bang for the points.

[RexMundi]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Drain PD/ED is always fun as well.

 

~Rex

[Kristopher]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

I'd start with the SFX and work back to the power.

[Balabanto]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

The answer is EGO. To drain any other stat the way the rules work is a mistake. You could drain SPD, but that takes too long to get a result. When you drain EGO, especially now that it's a 1 point stat, most characters very quickly need to make rolls at 9- to take any actions at all. At that point, you've reached mopup time. You can disable opponents with this if you have a 4 SPD and they have an 8.

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

nerve toxins drain dexterity then body

[Cygnia]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Who else is in your party? I'm just curious if there's anyone best to work in tandem with.

[Broadsword]

Re: What is the best thing to Drain to incapacitate?

 

Who else is in your party? I'm just curious if there's anyone best to work in tandem with.

We only have three Players and some NPCs (mostly agent level, and all created by and thus working for the other two players). We are working for a mastermind supervillan with a equal power to us "Handler". The Handler's powers are some kind of VPP, with gradual as a limitation, but otherwise powerful. I am a Aid/Drain/Transfer guy with a sword. The other two are a sneak/mindcontrol/desolification guy and a sneak/techno/VPP guy. We had some other players, but they got chased off.

 

Anyway, we have run some missions for the Head Badguy and now the Other Two are using points (CPs) to hire up agents and now are looking at vehicles and a base. To which I keep asking, "Why do we need a base? We already have one for free.", "Why do we need an armored bus HQ? We are part of an Evil Organization, we can just requisition what we want." But, they are determined to go their own way. So, since I am not in on the Plan (In Real Life). I decided to do the double agent thing. But, I need a Drop 'Em power in case the Boss wants them brought in.

 

Both are generally the same Stat Wise. Low (8-13) Str, Con, Body and Pre, with good Int, Ego and Dex of 20+. And we are all Spd 4. We are using Hero System 5th Edition. Both have 0 power defense.

 

Int is probably the best bet. Once they are below 0 they will not be able to effectively get away and I can sword smack them KO.

 

Hopefully it will never come to having to fight them. The Boss will probably be happier knowing what they are doing and being able to use it to his advantage.

 

Broadsword -|--->