Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

[TSandman]

I've nearly finished Book 1 and while converting some Spells from the Grimoire for a campaign I'm preparing I've run across the fact that 6th has eleminated the Negative Skill Levels...

 

Which I was about to use for a Curse...

 

Adding to that, my search-fu is borked since the forum update (I cannot seem to be able to search only ONE forum, only ALL of them, getting a bit too much results to comb through)

 

So... should I simply use the Skill Level and add a minus in front of it or is there any other way to build this thing that wouldn't involve bailing wires and duct-tape?

[Nevenall]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

Change Environment. It now affects a single target by default.

 

You would have to specify which type of rolls (DEX, STR, INT etc...) and/or CVs were affected, but there's no longer an adder required to have multiple effects.

[TSandman]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

If so, would I be correct to assume that the equivalent of "-1 overall" is quite costly?

[Nevenall]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

27 points per -1 to affect all characteristic and skill rolls, and OCV at the same time. Also, the first phase they are cursed the target would have to make a Characteristic roll of each type or suffer some kind of negative effect, such as falling down if they failed the DEX check.

I think it's a very fair price.

However, Change Environment is open to any combat effect the GM is willing to allow, so heck, the GM could say you can have the equivalent of a -1 Negative Skill Level for 10 points.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

Heh Change Environment STILL rocks!!!

[tarragon]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

27 points per -1 to affect all characteristic and skill rolls' date=' and OCV at the same time..[/quote']

 

I never used them but wasn't the old Negative Skill level -1 to any one thing at a time?

[Nevenall]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

I never used them but wasn't the old Negative Skill level -1 to any one thing at a time?

 

I never used them either, but, I just looked. Yes, they could only affect one skill at a time and it would take the caster a half action to change the allocation, which makes it pretty easy for the target to just not use that skill until it the caster shifts it to something else.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

Heh Change Environment STILL rocks!!!

 

'still'? CE is hopelessly broad and disorganised, ill defined and, by turns, too expensive for what it does, and too cheap for what it does.

 

Some people might like that....

[teh bunneh]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

'still'? CE is hopelessly broad and disorganised, ill defined and, by turns, too expensive for what it does, and too cheap for what it does.

 

Some people might like that....

 

Reminds me of someone...

[Nevenall]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

'still'? CE is hopelessly broad and disorganised, ill defined and, by turns, too expensive for what it does, and too cheap for what it does.

 

Some people might like that....

 

That's a bit of an overstatement in my opinion, but even hopelessly broad is better then paying points for a power that does absolutely nothing like CE did pre-5th ED.

[mallet]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

I know it is strictly forbidden in the rules, but I still feel that Change Environment would be a much more logical and simpler way to build "create light" spells and items then Images is or ever will be. There is no reason why a flashlight should be built as Images only to create light, etc, etc, etc... with all the modifiers added to it and end up costing 27 active points, when CE already has a simple rule for giving neg mods to Perception rolls and could easily be switched to giving plus mods to the same rolls. I mean I can see how allowing positive effects with CE could be abused, but that what GM's are for, the rules should just make use whats already there and is logical for the build.

[JaredThaler]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

So....

 

Would it be correct to say that "Change Enviroment" is now (effectively) "Impose Penalty?"

 

Is there any defense against it? Or is it just "You hit, they get -X?"

 

Frankly I prefer to build curses as Drain / Suppress with every -1 requiring a level of effect equal to the cost of a +1 (So to drain a single skill, every -1 requires draining 2 points.)

 

(Or to put it anouther way, the only way I allow people to inflict negative skill levels on people is through use of a drain or supress, because I don't like the way the default "inflict negative skill level" power ignores things like Power defense.)

[dmjalund]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

Make the cost of Aiding with CE comensurate with Aid cost vs Drain cost (IMHO)

[Starlight]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

It's not entirely obvious, as in there's nothing that specifically addresses the question either for or against, but the impression I got after reading fairly carefully through the 6th edition Change Environment is that OCV and DCV penalties have been dropped from the range of possible effects. The 5th edition CE distinguished between CV penalties and Characteristic Roll penalties. In 6th edition there's no mention of CV penalties. But OCV and DCV are now listed under characteristics, so can they still be affected? If the answer was yes I'd have expected one of the sidebar examples to illustrate that. None do however.

 

If this has been answered in a previous post, such a post has escaped my poor search-fu skills.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

It's not entirely obvious' date=' as in there's nothing that specifically addresses the question either for or against, but the impression I got after reading fairly carefully through the 6th edition Change Environment is that OCV and DCV penalties have been dropped from the range of possible effects. The 5th edition CE distinguished between CV penalties and Characteristic Roll penalties. In 6th edition there's no mention of CV penalties. But OCV and DCV are now listed under characteristics, so can they still be affected?[/quote']

 

Since the CVs are now Characteristics, they can be Drained.

[Checkmate]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

I know it is strictly forbidden in the rules' date=' but I still feel that Change Environment would be a much more logical and simpler way to build "create light" spells and items then Images is or ever will be. There is no reason why a flashlight should be built as Images only to create light, etc, etc, etc... with all the modifiers added to it and end up costing 27 active points, when CE already has a simple rule for giving neg mods to Perception rolls and could easily be switched to giving plus mods to the same rolls. I mean I can see how allowing positive effects with CE could be abused, but that what GM's are for, the rules should just make use whats already there and is logical for the build.[/quote']

it has nothing to do with logic or power abuse. It has to do with Steve Long made a decision and everyone thought it was a bad one, but he's going to defend it come hell or high water... I think.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

it has nothing to do with logic or power abuse. It has to do with Steve Long made a decision and everyone thought it was a bad one' date=' but he's going to defend it come hell or high water... I think.[/quote']

 

I don't think he's defending it per se, just that when someone asks him how The System does create light he'll give one answer. If you wander off and use Change Environment for your create light spells (like I do sometimes) I don't really think he'll actually care.

[Nevenall]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

it has nothing to do with logic or power abuse. It has to do with Steve Long made a decision and everyone thought it was a bad one' date=' but he's going to defend it come hell or high water... I think.[/quote']

 

It's just the name of the power that makes people feel like it should create light but Change Environment is only for creating Negative Combat Effects. Light is not a Negative Combat Effect.

If I recall correctly Images has been used for creating light since before 5th edition and Steve Long.

If Steve's replies to questions about using Change Environment for light are sometimes terse it may be because such posts are sometimes unintentionally rude; questioning both his intelligence and his motivations.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

Change Environment is for more than negative combat effects. It is also the power for actually changing the environment, like creating thunderstorms, causing flowers to bloom, you can even create effects that don't inflict combat modifiers, like just making some ice for an ice rink without a -DEX component or what have you.

 

Making a break in a cloudy day to let a sunbeam through would also be a good CE.

 

We use it to consecrate ground; no combat effect beyond making a patch of land count as "Holy"

[TSandman]

Re: Easiest way to... emulate 5th negative skill levels in 6th

 

Thanks for your posts...

 

I've seen that CE actually do not include CV while fiddling with it for a friend's character... I guess I'll use Drain then ...

 

Oh, and if you want to use CE to Create Light in your games, I do not think that Steve will transmit your coordinates to NORAD for immediate termination