A question about building spears.

[wick]

I want to build a HKA spear. What is confusing me is how you combined the stretching and HKA power. Do you make these powers linked ( Stretching linked to the HKA) or build as a mutipower?

[L. Marcus]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

It's more of a Compound Power -- two powers bought together with the common special effect of a spear. I don't think Linked is appropriate, and a Multipower it most definitely is not.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

... and a Multipower it most definitely is not.

 

Only if you disregard it's secondary use as a staff

(example built with 5er rules):

 

11 Staff-Spear: Multipower, 30-point reserve; all OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

1u 1) Blade: HKA 1d6+1 (plus STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

1u 2) Shaft: HA +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-½), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

 

2 Long Weapon: Stretching 1”, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (7 Active Points); OAF (-1), Always Direct (-¼), No Noncombat Stretching (-¼), Only To Cause Damage (-½), No Velocity Damage (-¼)

 

4 Skillful Weapon: +2 OCV with Block, Bind, and Disarm; OAF (-1), Only Applies To The Three Listed Maneuvers (-½)

[Broadsword]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

The actual spear is just a focus for whatever powers you want to write up. I'm sure there is an "official" spear written up somewhere, maybe in the equipment book, but you can write it up however you like.

 

It could be written up as a HKA (Slash), an RKA (Thrown), Stretching (Jab), or just HtH (Staff). I'd even allow an added +1d6 for the stretching if appropriate. A technological spear might even contract and extend like the staff from the TV shows Babylon 5 and Andromeda. It could even be an energy attack if written up that way.

 

I'd probably write it up as a combined power, HKA 1 1/2d6, RKA 1 1/2d6, Stretching 1". That way you have the reach, the thrown attack and the hand held attack with stregth added. You really don't need to add Hand to Hand bonus damage, there are rules, I believe, to allow the KA to be downgraded to equivalent regular damage if you want. If you want bonus damage add a martial art skill.

 

Be sure to make the RKA a one charge, recoverable.

 

Broadsword -}--->

[Susano]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

Only if you disregard it's secondary use as a staff

(example built with 5er rules):

 

11 Staff-Spear: Multipower, 30-point reserve; all OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

1u 1) Blade: HKA 1d6+1 (plus STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

1u 2) Shaft: HA +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-½), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

 

2 Long Weapon: Stretching 1”, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (7 Active Points); OAF (-1), Always Direct (-¼), No Noncombat Stretching (-¼), Only To Cause Damage (-½), No Velocity Damage (-¼)

 

4 Skillful Weapon: +2 OCV with Block, Bind, and Disarm; OAF (-1), Only Applies To The Three Listed Maneuvers (-½)

 

I'd argue that the Skillful Weapon levels only apply to those spears built with added flanges and blades to the head to specifically allow them to block, bind, and disarm. Most spears don't do that.

[wick]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

The actual spear is just a focus for whatever powers you want to write up. I'm sure there is an "official" spear written up somewhere, maybe in the equipment book, but you can write it up however you like.

 

....

 

Be sure to make the RKA a one charge, recoverable.

 

Broadsword -}--->

 

I think the paradigm that I need to break is not understanding that one focus can have multiple powers

 

 

Another question is this....I can justify giving the the spear the following limitations: Independent, 1 charge recoverable, Obvious accessible Focus, restrainable. But some of these seem to overlap in effects, for example, can't an obvious accessible be restrained and taken away from the character therefore it would be redundant to also have restrained and independent too.

[Susano]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

I think the paradigm that I need to break is not understanding that one focus can have multiple powers

 

 

Another question is this....I can justify giving the the spear the following limitations: Independent, 1 charge recoverable, Obvious accessible Focus, restrainable. But some of these seem to overlap in effects, for example, can't an obvious accessible be restrained and taken away from the character therefore it would be redundant to also have restrained and independent too.

 

Don't give it Independent. If you lose it, you lose the points you spend on it. This might be fine if you build The One Ring, not so good for your average spear. Also, Independent was removed as of 6E (thank goodness).

 

The typical spear is as follows: OAF, STR Minimum, Real Weapon.

 

The ability to throw it is HKA, Range Based On STR, One Charge (recoverable), Lockout (can't use it until you get it back).

 

Restrainable is best for things that can't be taken away, but can be bound, entangled, trapped, and so on. The wings on a bird, for example (or Dawnstar).

[L. Marcus]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

I think the paradigm that I need to break is not understanding that one focus can have multiple powers

Another question is this....I can justify giving the the spear the following limitations: Independent, 1 charge recoverable, Obvious accessible Focus, restrainable. But some of these seem to overlap in effects, for example, can't an obvious accessible be restrained and taken away from the character therefore it would be redundant to also have restrained and independent too.

As I understood Independent, it's main effect was that if you lose the source of the power it's gone -- permanently. That would compound the effect of a Focus that can be taken away from a character, but the Power is still there on the sheet. If the Focus is destroyed in that case, you'd just have to discuss matters with the GM on how to get the power going again in-game.

 

Edit: Dammit, Mike was faster ...

[Lucius]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

I think the paradigm that I need to break is not understanding that one focus can have multiple powers

 

 

Another question is this....I can justify giving the the spear the following limitations: Independent, 1 charge recoverable, Obvious accessible Focus, restrainable. But some of these seem to overlap in effects, for example, can't an obvious accessible be restrained and taken away from the character therefore it would be redundant to also have restrained and independent too.

 

Yes, a Focus can have several, or many, Powers associated with it.

 

Don't use Independant unless you are willing to lose the ponts permanently.

 

1 Charge Recoverable applies only to the spear being thrown. I'd buy the spear as a Hand to Hand Killing Attack, with Stretching, and then buy Range Based on STR as a Naked Advantage, and with the Charge Limitation on that and also a "Lockout" Limitation (because if you throw it, you can't use it hand to hand until you get it back.)

 

Obvious Accessible Focus (OAF) is a very common Limitation for melee weapons. It is usually considered incompatible with Restrainable. Restrainable is often for something that can be restrained but not taken away.

 

If you're playing Champions - i.e. your character is a comic book type superhero - Real Weapon is an optional Limitation. It means you are apt to break it if you attack a wall with it, etc. If you don't take the Limitation, you have a "super spear" that might be able to do things a real, normal weapon can't.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[wick]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

Yes, a Focus can have several, or many, Powers associated with it.

 

Don't use Independant unless you are willing to lose the ponts permanently.

 

1 Charge Recoverable applies only to the spear being thrown. I'd buy the spear as a Hand to Hand Killing Attack, with Stretching, and then buy Range Based on STR as a Naked Advantage, and with the Charge Limitation on that and also a "Lockout" Limitation (because if you throw it, you can't use it hand to hand until you get it back.)

 

Obvious Accessible Focus (OAF) is a very common Limitation for melee weapons. It is usually considered incompatible with Restrainable. Restrainable is often for something that can be restrained but not taken away.

 

If you're playing Champions - i.e. your character is a comic book type superhero - Real Weapon is an optional Limitation. It means you are apt to break it if you attack a wall with it, etc. If you don't take the Limitation, you have a "super spear" that might be able to do things a real, normal weapon can't.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

 

This is actually a super powered villian, I am recreating The Predator from the movie of the same name. In Predator 2 the villians spear is actually picked up by the protagonist and used against the villian that is why I was thinking independent. This could probably happen with an OAF , so Independent is probably over kill. A recoverable charge does not really fit either since the spear cannot be easily replaced, say he misses a throw and the spear lands in the Ocean. He would either have to do some underwater retrieval or return to his ship/homeworld to get another.

 

Here is what i am thinking:

 

Naked power advantage: Throw spear. Ranged based on Strength +0.25 for HKA up to 60 active points. 2 pts

 

How would I apply the limitation of 1 charge recoverable when thrown and lock out? Would this go on the HKA or the Naked advantage or both.

 

Predator Spear: HKA 2d6 (30 pts), +1/2 Armor piercing. Reduce End: 0 END +1/2, OAF -1 Extremly difficult to replace -1.

 

Long weapon: 1" Stretching Reduced Endurance +1/4, OAF -1, Always direct -1/4, No Noncom stretch -1/2, only to cause damage -1/2, no Velocity damage -1/4 =2 pts real cost for stretching

 

It just gets a little confusing trying to figure out what limitations/advantages go where when you use mutiple powers to describe one thing.

 

Also, how would the Long weapons and throwing work if the spear is part of an Environmental control? I would guess that you would build the HKA into the framework and just leave theses adders out of that.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

Only if you disregard it's secondary use as a staff

(example built with 5er rules):

 

11 Staff-Spear: Multipower, 30-point reserve; all OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

1u 1) Blade: HKA 1d6+1 (plus STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

1u 2) Shaft: HA +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-½), STR Minimum (13; -½), Real Weapon (-¼)

 

2 Long Weapon: Stretching 1”, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (7 Active Points); OAF (-1), Always Direct (-¼), No Noncombat Stretching (-¼), Only To Cause Damage (-½), No Velocity Damage (-¼)

 

4 Skillful Weapon: +2 OCV with Block, Bind, and Disarm; OAF (-1), Only Applies To The Three Listed Maneuvers (-½)

 

Now this might be spliting hairs but, aren't you supposed to put stretching with each slot? Or to save points I think you could increase the mutilpower points and make long weapon a third slot and have the person use either slot one or two with three.

[Lucius]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

This is actually a super powered villian, I am recreating The Predator from the movie of the same name. In Predator 2 the villians spear is actually picked up by the protagonist and used against the villian that is why I was thinking independent. This could probably happen with an OAF , so Independent is probably over kill. A recoverable charge does not really fit either since the spear cannot be easily replaced, say he misses a throw and the spear lands in the Ocean. He would either have to do some underwater retrieval or return to his ship/homeworld to get another.

 

Here is what i am thinking:

 

Naked power advantage: Throw spear. Ranged based on Strength +0.25 for HKA up to 60 active points. 2 pts

 

How would I apply the limitation of 1 charge recoverable when thrown and lock out? Would this go on the HKA or the Naked advantage or both.

 

Predator Spear: HKA 2d6 (30 pts), +1/2 Armor piercing. Reduce End: 0 END +1/2, OAF -1 Extremly difficult to replace -1.

 

Long weapon: 1" Stretching Reduced Endurance +1/4, OAF -1, Always direct -1/4, No Noncom stretch -1/2, only to cause damage -1/2, no Velocity damage -1/4 =2 pts real cost for stretching

 

It just gets a little confusing trying to figure out what limitations/advantages go where when you use mutiple powers to describe one thing.

 

Also, how would the Long weapons and throwing work if the spear is part of an Environmental control? I would guess that you would build the HKA into the framework and just leave theses adders out of that.

 

Thanks, having the context helps.

 

"Recoverable" does carry the possibility of, for example, losing something in the ocean, your enemy picking it up and running off with it, etc. It's commonly applied to thrown weapons.

 

Here's what I got:

 

Throw Spear: Naked Advantage: Range Based On STR (+1/4) for up to 60 Active Points (15 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (Spear; -1), Lockout (Cannot use spear after throwing it, unless it's retrieved; -1/2) Real Cost: 4

 

By the way, "Difficult to Replace" is for "Expendable" Focus. That means the spear is used up when he uses it and he needs new spears all the time. I don't think you want that.

 

Having to return "home" for a new Focus is just part of the OAF Limitation. If your Focus is something you can find easily in the environment, it's considered "Inaccessible" (I know, a paradox....) because you can't be easily deprived of it.

 

By "Environmental Control" do you mean Elemental Control? I don't think I was every completely comfortable with that framework and how it works, and in any case, I'm not sure something like this is valid to include in an Elemental Control.

 

Ninja Bear - no, Hyper Man is doing it right. The extra reach is outside the Multipower but applies to both slots. There's no reason whatsoever to buy it twice - if anything, there's a small Limitation for only being able to use it with those two attacks.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[Susano]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

This is actually a super powered villian, I am recreating The Predator from the movie of the same name. In Predator 2 the villians spear is actually picked up by the protagonist and used against the villian that is why I was thinking independent. This could probably happen with an OAF , so Independent is probably over kill. A recoverable charge does not really fit either since the spear cannot be easily replaced, say he misses a throw and the spear lands in the Ocean. He would either have to do some underwater retrieval or return to his ship/homeworld to get another.

 

Here is what i am thinking:

 

Naked power advantage: Throw spear. Ranged based on Strength +0.25 for HKA up to 60 active points. 2 pts

 

How would I apply the limitation of 1 charge recoverable when thrown and lock out? Would this go on the HKA or the Naked advantage or both.

 

Predator Spear: HKA 2d6 (30 pts), +1/2 Armor piercing. Reduce End: 0 END +1/2, OAF -1 Extremly difficult to replace -1.

 

Long weapon: 1" Stretching Reduced Endurance +1/4, OAF -1, Always direct -1/4, No Noncom stretch -1/2, only to cause damage -1/2, no Velocity damage -1/4 =2 pts real cost for stretching

 

It just gets a little confusing trying to figure out what limitations/advantages go where when you use mutiple powers to describe one thing.

 

Also, how would the Long weapons and throwing work if the spear is part of an Environmental control? I would guess that you would build the HKA into the framework and just leave theses adders out of that.

 

In order:

 

A Recoverable Charge assumes you might lose the Charge due to your shot landing on the ocean or someone picking up the spear and running away with it.

 

You'd apply the Ranged Based On STR to the HKA itself, not as a Naked Advantage. Also, RBS for 60 Active Points of HKA is 15 points, not 2. (60 * 1.25 = 75 - 60 = 15)

 

You'd apply the 1 Charge Recoverable to the HKA.

 

If your super villain only has one spear, "Extremely Difficult To Replace" is valid. If he can go back to his ship/lair/base and get another, then no, it's just a Focus.

[Susano]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

Here's a spear-like weapon built using 6E, showing many of the features I've described. Look at slot two for a thrown weapon build.

 

30	[b]Hui Chen Tai-Dao:[/b]  Multipower, 60-point reserve, all slots OAF (-1)
3f	1)  [b]Ghost-Cutting Blade:[/b]  HKA 2d6 (3d6+1 w/STR), Affects Desolidified supernatural special effects 
only (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1)
1f	2)  [b]Thrown Ghost-Cutting Blade:[/b]  HKA 2d6 (3d6 w/STR), Affects Desolidified supernatural special 
effects only (+¼), Range Based On STR (+¼); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 ¼), OAF (-1), Lockout (cannot 
use Multipower at all until Charge is recovered; -½), [1 rc]
2f	3)  [b]Divide The Enemy Strike:[/b]  HKA 2d6, Area Of Effect (24m Line; +½); OAF (-1), No STR Bonus (-½), END 4
1f	4)  [b]Shaft:[/b]  Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-½)
1f	5)  [b]Stand Unharmed In The Face Of Evil[/b]:  Barrier 12 PD/12 ED, 0 BODY (up to 3m long, 2m tall, 
and ½m thick); OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -½), No Range (-½), Restricted Shape 
(arc in front of Kanu/the brandished weapon; -¼), END 4
1f	6)  [b]Shaft:[/b]  Stretching 1m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Only To Cause Damage (-½), 
Always Direct (-¼), No Noncombat Stretching (-¼), No Velocity Damage (-¼)

 

Just for fun, here's a second spear-like weapon. This is 5E.

 

75	[b]Sebahattin, The Falling Star Halberd:[/b]  Multipower, 120-point reserve, all slots Difficult 
To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4); all slots OAF (-1)
4u	1)  [b]Blade Edge:[/b]  HKA 2 1/2d6 (4d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); 
OAF (-1)
4u	2)  [b]Blade Point:[/b]  HKA 2d6 (3d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), 
Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); OAF (-1)
1u	3)  [b]Shaft:[/b]  HA +5d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)
1u	4)  [b]Shaft:[/b]  Stretching 2", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); OAF (-1), Only To Cause 
Damage (-1/2), Always Direct (-1/4), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4)
6u	5)  [b]Echoes Of A Falling Star:[/b]  EB 12d6, Explosion (+1/2), Indirect (always comes from 
below; +1/2); OAF (-1), END 12

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

Now this might be spliting hairs but' date=' aren't you supposed to put stretching with each slot? Or to save points I think you could increase the mutilpower points and make long weapon a third slot and have the person use either slot one or two with three.[/quote']

 

This happens to be a published weapon from UMA. I just changed the name.

[Lucius]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

 

You'd apply the Ranged Based On STR to the HKA itself, not as a Naked Advantage. Also, RBS for 60 Active Points of HKA is 15 points, not 2. (60 * 1.25 = 75 - 60 = 15)

 

You'd apply the 1 Charge Recoverable to the HKA.

 

 

Wouldn't that mean the Charge is used, and must be recovered, even if the spear is used hand to hand?

 

I think it needs Naked Advantage because the Recoverable Charge only applies to throwing the spear, not thrusting with it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

A Naked Palindromedary

[Susano]

Re: A question about building spears.

 

Wouldn't that mean the Charge is used, and must be recovered, even if the spear is used hand to hand?

 

I think it needs Naked Advantage because the Recoverable Charge only applies to throwing the spear, not thrusting with it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

A Naked Palindromedary

 

My mistake, you apply the Recoverable Charge to the Ranged By STR Advantage.

 

It should look like this:

 

9	[b]Long Knife:[/b]  HKA 1d6-1 (1d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); OAF (-1)
[b]plus[/b] Ranged (+1/2); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Range Based On 
STR (-1/4) for up to 15 Active Points of HKA, [1 rc]