Quick Question from a New Hero

[New Hero]

Hello! I'm using the 5Ed Rev Rules, and using HeroDesigner v2.37. As a mental exercise, I'm trying to create Booster Gold. My question is about Skeet: Is Skeet a follower or a sidekick? I asked someone this question and they told me that he would be a DNPC. How can he be a DNPC? He really isn't dependent on Booster.

 

Btw, the version of Booster Gold and Skeet that I'm attempting to build is what's shown on the awesome Justice League Unlimited TV show (which should be put back on the air with all-new episodes as soon as possible).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Escafarc]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I would buy him as a Follower.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I'd agree. A follower is probably the best approach.

[New Hero]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

OK. Thanks for the quick replies. I'll probably have more questions as I go.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

By all means. Kicking ideas around is one of the nice thing about forums...

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Your OP asks if he should be built as a Follower or a sidekick. I have to ask, what do you mean built as a sidekick? Sidekicks are traditionally built using the Follower perk (although sometime DNPC is appropriate) but where are you getting "sidekick" as a way to build him?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

sidekick is probably how booster sees skeets

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

But the OP seems to refer to refer to "sidekick" as a game mechanic, asking whether he is a "follower or a sidekick". Is there a game mechanic being referred to that I am just missing (possibly by the wrong name) or does that sentence just not make sense?

Not trying to be semantics guy here, just wondering if I’m missing something…

[Cardinal]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

As a mental exercise' date=' I'm trying to create Booster Gold. My question is about Skeet: Is Skeet a follower or a sidekick? [/quote']

 

Like the others here, I would make skeets as a follower (my rationale is blow). To highlight BBW's issue, as a mechanic, the perk you would use is Follower. A Follower (game mechanic) can be a mount, familiar, follower (in the social sense), sidekick, etc. (all of which would be SFX for the follower)

 

I asked someone this question and they told me that he would be a DNPC. How can he be a DNPC? He really isn't dependent on Booster.

 

DNPC is a disad. As such, it is meant to me someone or something that creates complications or problems for your hero. It is not meant to be dependent in the legal or tax sense. Classic examples are that pesky, but plucky, reporter who always finds her/himself captured by aliens, etc. At the end of the day, ask yourself how you see Skeets being involved. Is he there to help Booster? If so, he is a Follower. If his primarily there to create issues for BG, he is a follower. That is not to suggest that your follower can't be put in danger so that they must be saved or that your DNPC can't be helpful. Rather, how do you want the GM to primarily use the character.

 

My memory of skeets from the comic book (back in the day) is that he had more common sense than BG as well as a slew of powers. His role was more that of ally than source of problems. As such, I would make him a follower.

[Escafarc]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Not that you can't give Skeets a Diavantage(secret programming, mystery agenda, etc) that would complicate Booster's life. shhh, 52.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

buy him as a follower and a DNPC

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

buy him as a follower and a DNPC

I'm pretty sure that that is illegal by RAW, but more importantly seems either counter-productive or munchkiny, not sure which...

[Matt Holck]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I don't know what RAW is

 

but it seems like the best way to avoid argument over how useful a DNPC can be

while still allowing the follower to get onto extra trouble

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

RAW = Rules As Written.

 

Sounds more like trying to get a Follower for cheaper by counting him as a DNPC as well, or alternatively trying to cop out of X points worth of Complications by using a Perk you were going ot buy anyway as a Complication. YMMV.

 

EDIT: YMMV = Your Milage May Vary.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I'm pretty sure that that is illegal by RAW' date=' but more importantly seems either counter-productive or munchkiny, not sure which...[/quote']

 

I don't see the problem. If the character will pretty much always be helpful, perhaps being a hindrance on very rare occasions (say, as often as one's fellow PC's), buy it as a follower only. If it is to be a hindrance more often, DNPC seems like the appropriate way of simulating that. If the character is generally helpful, but also nearly constantly requires assistance itself, that sounds like a Follower which is also a 14- DNPC. If it's just a hindrance, and rarely if ever of any significant benefit to the character, that sounds like a DNPC only.

 

Similarly, if your DNPC Father is a general in the US military, I'd make you pay for the Contact as well if you want to benefit from that.

 

If you wanted a US army general as a Contact, and his bumbling 1st Lieutenant as a DNPC, no one would question this. Why should having the same character fill both roles (making him a richer character in the process) change the mechanics?

 

In fact, as I think about it, it seems like many supporting characters in the comics combine aspects of being a follower with aspects of being a perk. J Jonah Jameson is a pain when he's paying for Spider Slayers, and a significant asset when he's paying for that plane trip to Florida.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Personally, I'd see JJJ as a DNPC with Useful Skills / etc. rather than as a Follower in any way. The Useful Skills / etc. part covers the plane tickets / information that Spidey gets out of dealing with JJJ. Edit: But JJJ rarely if ever makes Peter's / Spidey's life much easier.

 

As to Skeet, I think simply Follower would be most appropriate. Any difficulties he might cause, for himself or Booster Gold, would be covered in Skeet's own Complications -- which allow Skeet to be more effective and more helpful to BG by giving Skeet more points to play with.

 

At least, that's my take on it.

 

Note: I have a player whom I believe thinks that, by taking a DNPC with Useful Skills, he effectively got paid to have a Contact. Little does he suspect...

[Chimera 12]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Actually, I'd consider J. Jonah Jameson Spider-Man's main Hunted. No, really. All the assorted villains in Spidey's Rogues' Gallery, well, they pop up from time to time so he has somebody to fight for the readers' entertainment -- but who's the person who's always there and on his case, no matter what else is going on? JJ, that's who.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I'm pretty sure that that is illegal by RAW' date=' but more importantly seems either counter-productive or munchkiny, not sure which...[/quote']

 

Oh, and here's a relevant quote from the Follower description in 6E1, emphasis mine (the same line is repeated verbatim in the Contact and DNPC entries, by the way): "[...] A character cannot take the same NPC as both a Contact and a DNPC, as a Follower and a Contact, or as a Follower and a DNPC unless the GM specifically permits him to."

 

So...while it's not the default, the GM explicitly can allow it on a case-by-case basis.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

JJJ is a Hunted or DNPC. The Daily Bugle is the contact.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Actually' date=' I'd consider J. Jonah Jameson Spider-Man's main Hunted. No, really. All the assorted villains in Spidey's Rogues' Gallery, well, they pop up from time to time so he has somebody to fight for the readers' entertainment -- but who's the person who's [i']always[/i] there and on his case, no matter what else is going on? JJ, that's who.

 

Good point. Given how many times Spidey has protected JJJ, either he also has him as a DNPC, or (more likely) he has "Daily Bugle Employees" as a group DNPC, and that lumps JJJ in with the rest.

[New Hero]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Wow! That's a lot of discourse for one question! It'll take me a while to sift through it all. Thanks for posting, everybody.

[New Hero]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

Your OP asks if he should be built as a Follower or a sidekick. I have to ask' date=' what do you mean built as a sidekick? Sidekicks are traditionally built using the Follower perk (although sometime DNPC is appropriate) but where are you getting "sidekick" as a way to build him?[/quote']

 

Maybe the OP (that's me) had a brain fart, and meant to type 'built as a Follower or a DNPC'. Sorry about the confusion.

[Ice9]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I'm pretty sure that that is illegal by RAW, but more importantly seems either counter-productive or munchkiny, not sure which...

I don't see it as being any stranger than having, for instance, high Resistant Defense and Strength (SFX: High Density) and also Physical Complication (High Density) - which is in fact, the recommended way of making a permanently dense character. If the character gets into trouble enough to be a DNPC, and is helpful enough to be a Follower, making them both seems logical.

 

I could see some other combinations too:

Rivalry / Contact - A rival, but not totally antagonistic - sometimes, they'll lend their assistance, although they might take the opportunity to mock you for needing the help.

Hunted (watching) / Contact - Actually, this one is fairly common for organizations like UNTIL.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I don't see it as being any stranger than having, for instance, high Resistant Defense and Strength (SFX: High Density) and also Physical Complication (High Density) - which is in fact, the recommended way of making a permanently dense character. If the character gets into trouble enough to be a DNPC, and is helpful enough to be a Follower, making them both seems logical.

 

I could see some other combinations too:

Rivalry / Contact - A rival, but not totally antagonistic - sometimes, they'll lend their assistance, although they might take the opportunity to mock you for needing the help.

Hunted (watching) / Contact - Actually, this one is fairly common for organizations like UNTIL.

 

Well, Steve agrees with me (or, I agree with him), that's why it takes special GM permission to do it. I explained my reasoning before, it seems to be a cop out IMO. Personally I'd question your Rivalry/Contact example too. Either it's a Contact with a bad attitude or a non-lethal Rivalry that shares your goal (thus you work together out of necessity on occasion, a common comic trope).

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Quick Question from a New Hero

 

I agree with the Contact/DNPC or Follower/DNPC usages. But the Rivalry/Contact makes little sense to me.

 

Batman has Alfred as a Follower. But Alfred virtually never gets in trouble, even when aiding directly in cases. He walked into a firefight between Penguin & the GCPD and Killer Croc & his gang to untie Robin - and was totally unmolested the entire time. (This was during No Man's Land).

 

Booster Gold has Skeets as a Follower. Skeets clearly acts to aid Booster in many ways. Booster has to search for or save Skeets fairly often.

 

Clearly, Skeets is a DNPC and Alfred is not.