looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

[Escafarc]

I'm dealing with 5th on this. If 6E has rules for this great I'll be ordering that at the end of the month. But here's the problem:(sorry if it looks like an SAT question)

 

Character 1 has Focus A with Power A and Focus B wth Power B

Character 2 has a single Focus with both Powers(A/B) in a Framework

Now Character 3 has a single Focus with both Powers(A/B) but for whatever reason not in a Framework

 

Now heres the problem: Character 1 looses one of his Focus' and he still can use the other Power.

Character 2 looses his Focus and he can't use either Power but he got a cost break because of the Framework. Now Character 3 paid as much as Character 1 for his powers but if he looses his Focus he can't use either power.

 

I've thought about using a variation of Linked.

I'm just wondering how someone elde would handle this.

 

Thanks.

[Jhamin]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

I don't think there is anything to handle. The situations you lay out simulate different things.

 

The Focus limitation puts limits on a power.

Frameworks apply limits to a power in and of themselves.

It is often appropriate for a suite of powers to both be in a framework and be part of a focus, but these are different limitations and simulate different things.

 

Character 1 might be: Classic Punisher has an array of weapons that are all foci. Punisher would often lose a gun but pull out another & keep fighting.

Character 2 might be: Classic Iron Man has all his powers bought in a couple frameworks and has everything bought as a focus (we will leave out OIHID for the purposes of this example). If Tony is without his armor he is powerless, if he is *in* his armor a dispel bought as an EMP might drop all his powers at once, as they are in a framework.

Character 3 might be: A magic ring that gives flight and a force field. (sorry, no good example off the top of my head). A dispel that knocks out the flight may well still leave the force field running, but if you took the ring both powers stop working.

 

These are different effects that are bought differently, and each of them would work differently when losing their foci. The whole "framework" thing just adds more limits. Having lots of foci can help you because if you lose one the others will continue to work, but you now have a bunch of stuff to keep track of.

 

Linked is another limit all together....

[Escafarc]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

My problem is that Character#3 paid the same as #1 but his powers are more limited.

[Jhamin]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

My problem is that Character#3 paid the same as #1 but his powers are more limited.

 

Perhaps, but I'm not sure that "bought everything in one foci" is worth an extra disadvantage. Linked is really intended for other uses.

 

IMHO, packing everything into one focus vs. spreading powers out over several is a character flavor choice more than a hole in the system. I agree that putting all your eggs in one basket is a bit unwise, but giving them extra points for it seems abusive IMHO. Will they really lose their focus often enough to deserve more than the base focus limit?

 

If this really troubles you, you might ask if character 1 really deserves as much of a limit as they are getting? If they have powers spread over a bunch of items an argument might be made that the foci are less accessible (it takes a long time to get them all from the character) and as such are worth a smaller limit.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

Sixth Edition can address this somewhat with the Unified Power Limitation. You might apply that to multiple powers bought through a single Focus, with the rationale that affecting the function of that Focus affects its function, period (regardless of specifically which power within it you affected). It would depend on SFX (not all instances of multiple powers in a single Focus would be appropriate for it). But where appropriate, it would grant an extra -1/4 Limitation.

[Escafarc]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

Sixth Edition can address this somewhat with the Unified Power Limitation. You might apply that to multiple powers bought through a single Focus' date=' with the rationale that affecting the function of that Focus affects its function, period (regardless of specifically which power within it you affected). It would depend on SFX (not all instances of multiple powers in a single Focus would be appropriate for it). But where appropriate, it would grant an extra -1/4 Limitation.[/quote']

 

Thanks I saw this Limit in several other post and thought that it could be use like that. I'll have to wait till next week when I'll have some extra cash.

[tesuji]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

character 1 has two different focus lims while character c has one focus lim with more points in it.

 

as a very basic starting point, that means character a loses rgem more often while c suffers more when his is lodt.

 

out of 10 sessions, for instance, a would lose one of his foci 4 times - say two each - while c would lose his one foci twice.

 

assuming all the powers were 60 ap, then a would have four sessions down 60 ap while c would be down 120 ap twice.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

I have seen this problem before, especially with players who try to eke every possible advantage out of the rules. Jhamin's summary of the uses of Foci cuts to the heart of the matter: character conception. But for balance, I think Derek's suggestion of using Unified Power is a good one.

[secretID]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

When multiple powers use the same focus, I consider them to satisfy the "tight theme" requirement for Elemental Controls, even if they're very different powers. I realize that you said "no frameworks" for Character C, but I thought you may have only been thinking of MPs.

[Escafarc]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

When multiple powers use the same focus' date=' I consider them to satisfy the "tight theme" requirement for Elemental Controls, even if they're very different powers. I realize that you said "no frameworks" for Character C, but I thought you may have only been thinking of MPs.[/quote']

 

I use to do this in 4th and sometimes I allow it 5th (I don't have 6th yet so I don't know what changes to ECs are in there) but I was looking to see if anyone else had an idea I hadn't thought of.

[dmjalund]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

6E no longer has Elemental Controls, instead they use the Unified Power limitation

[Checkmate]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

Character 3 is just poor design. There is no reason to build a character this way unless you just don't like having points to spend.

 

P.S.

The one advantage Character 3 has over character 1 is that character 3 can shoot both powers out of his focus at the same time (Multiple Power Attack or whatever it's called)

[Escafarc]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

Character 3 is just poor design. There is no reason to build a character this way unless you just don't like having points to spend.

 

P.S.

The one advantage Character 3 has over character 1 is that character 3 can shoot both powers out of his focus at the same time (Multiple Power Attack or whatever it's called)

 

It's not poor design if the rules say that you can't put a particular power in a framework. Once I get 6E I'll most likly go with the Unified Power Limitation.

[Checkmate]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

There are reasons the rules would say that, but even unified power doesn't solve your problem any more than an Element Control would. Unified Power = EC so if one works so would the other.

[Escafarc]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

If Unified Power doesn't work I'll either come up with a House Rule version of Linked or allow the power in a Framework. I'm usually pretty easy going about such things.

[pinecone]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

I'm dealing with 5th on this. If 6E has rules for this great I'll be ordering that at the end of the month. But here's the problem:(sorry if it looks like an SAT question)

 

Character 1 has Focus A with Power A and Focus B wth Power B

Character 2 has a single Focus with both Powers(A/B) in a Framework

Now Character 3 has a single Focus with both Powers(A/B) but for whatever reason not in a Framework

 

Now heres the problem: Character 1 looses one of his Focus' and he still can use the other Power.

Character 2 looses his Focus and he can't use either Power but he got a cost break because of the Framework. Now Character 3 paid as much as Character 1 for his powers but if he looses his Focus he can't use either power.

 

I've thought about using a variation of Linked.

I'm just wondering how someone elde would handle this.

 

Thanks.

 

Can't player 3 do a MPA? Thats worth something all in it'self....

[Escafarc]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

Can't player 3 do a MPA? Thats worth something all in it'self....

 

Only if the powers are attacks. But most of the time's this has come up the powers involved were not attacks. I've finally got 6E and it looks like Unified Power will work fine for what I need.

[Guest random]

Re: looking for some opinions on Focus and Power Frameworks.

 

Character 1 has Focus A with Power A and Focus B wth Power B

Character 2 has a single Focus with both Powers(A/B) in a Framework

Now Character 3 has a single Focus with both Powers(A/B) but for whatever reason not in a Framework

 

Just one side note -- in some cases, Character 3 gets a benefit from having both powers in a single focus, as well as the drawback that he might lose them both simultaneously. If Power A or B is a defense power, and the focus is breakable, then both powers (A and are protected by the defense provided by the defense power.

 

Consider a powered armor character. With option 1, he might have:

 

Armor (20 PD/20 ED); OIF (suit of armor; -1/2) (40 pts)

Energy Blast 12d6; OIF (blaster gun; -1/2) (40 pts)

 

In this case, the armor is a breakable focus with 20PD and 20ED; the blaster gun is a breakable focus with 12 PD and 12ED -- significantly easier to break than the armor.

 

With option 3, the energy blast is bought with the same 40 points, but because it's part of the same suit of armor focus it has 20PD and 20ED.

 

Based on that, I consider the drawback to be balanced by the benefit, and don't consider either option to be worth an extra Limitation.

 

Cheers,

 

random