Death Touch

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Death Touch

 

Good point. In that case only 2 NNDs off the top of my head. Then there's the UNTIL super power data base, not to mention all the books I don't have and haven't read yet. My point is some things fall into the realm of Plot Device for a campaign. Things that can be easily and simply built as NNDs, AVADs, and Transforms hardly fall into that category.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Death Touch

 

Does a 'death touch' have to be instant?

 

Death touch: Drain BODY 2d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Death magic defences; +0), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (Turned off by any healing magic; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Effect (Body and CON simultaneously) (+1/2) (65 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Reduced effect through clothing (half effect through normal clothing, 1/3 effect through heavy clothing, no effect through thicker clothing); -1/2)

 

Death Magic Defense is way more than a +0 Advantage. In some super games I've seen nearly all the important characters, PC and NPC, have at least some level of Power Defense. Who the heck is going to specifically have "Death Magic Defense"? And in a supers campaign assuming it's "magic" in and of itself is a stretch...

[SirViss]

Re: Death Touch

 

Does a 'death touch' have to be instant?

 

Death touch: Drain BODY 2d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Death magic defences; +0), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (Turned off by any healing magic; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Effect (Body and CON simultaneously) (+1/2) (65 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Reduced effect through clothing (half effect through normal clothing, 1/3 effect through heavy clothing, no effect through thicker clothing); -1/2)

 

An idea I have for this to work closer to the proposed idea for this thread would be a linked power, something akin to "Mental Paralysis" that works vs EGO, or maybe CON (I would call it "Paralyzing Pain"). That would keep the target unmoving while the Death Touch does its work. The Entangle would exist only while the character was in physical with the target and would cease to have an effect if ever contact was broken.

 

Sorry I'm not providing an actual build here. Having some computer issues (and I'm lazy ).

[Gideon]

Re: Death Touch

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent, I'm suddenly wondering how any resulting fractions from that "half effect" rule should be rounded.

 

See, on closer reading the rounding rule on 6E1 12/13 doesn't really seem to concern itself with anything but Character Point costs, so it's not necessarily clear that it can be generalized to also apply to damage/effect rolls. And even assuming it can (which isn't really that much of a stretch, granted), the fact that it tells us to round fractions of .5 in whichever way would be "best for the character" could easily inject a dose of subjectivity where it's least wanted, namely in combat. Say you do have a 6d6 Drain BODY and roll 21 on the dice -- does that now mean that you drain 11 BODY if your target is a legitimate villain, but only 10 if you accidentally hit a teammate or innocent bystander? How does your power know the difference? (For that matter, if you use an armor-piercing attack and the original defense before halving is an odd number, do you round in favor of the attacker or the defender, and does it depend on whether or not either character is a PC?)

 

Mind, it's always entirely possible that I'm just being obtuse here. I assure you that it's not deliberate, though.

 

We always round in favor of the defender, regardless of circumstance. So 21 would always be 10.

[Chuckem]

Re: Death Touch

 

Thank you all for your input and advice. Right now I am using 4th edition until I can scrounge up more players...I cannot justify buying a $50+ book if I have nobody to play with.

 

The character is going to be a major villain and I do intend to give her some defenses and movement but her main defense is her underlings.

[Escafarc]

Re: Death Touch

 

Just a thought, Maybe make it always on and she has to go around completly covered. Not being able touch anyone without killing them could lead to some interesting Psych. Disavantages and storylines.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Death Touch

 

Characters like this tend to be problematic. When your powers either kill the target, or have no real impact, then it becomes a binary of "pretty much ineffective" or "player needs a new character". Neither makes for a really satisfying game experience for the players.

 

Sure, a death touch shows up now and then in the source material - but it's only the redshirts that actually feel its effects, as pointed out by others upthread.

[pinecone]

Re: Death Touch

 

Hey all.

 

Designing a new female character whose primary ability is a touch attack which just outright kills people. It works through clothing and even armour but is strongest with direct skin contact. She can do other things through touch but they are minor. My question is how to treat this, HKA or Body Drain?

 

Both sound fine...or a NND Does Body HA......I'd likely go with Drain though....

[Gideon]

Re: Death Touch

 

The only problem I possibly see with a body drain is that you're going to have to be really careful with how many dice it is. Depending on how you run things, and how high PCs defenses are (specifically Power Defense), this power could either be useless, or an instant PC death.

 

Since the character is supposed to be a high powered campaign villain, point caps and such generally go out the window. However, you need to make sure how you want to handle this character's power level and possible PC deaths caused by her.

 

In most of the games I play 14 body is about average for a PC, and not many characters have much power defense (if any at all). So a 4d6 body drain is significant (average is 14 on the dice, 7 "damage") dealing an average of half a character's body each hit. 6d6 is fairly devastating (average of 10 "damage", rounded in the favor of the defender), and 9d6 (average 16) will outright kill over about 75% of characters.

 

So I would put her probably at 4d6 or 5d6 body drain. This means she kills (or comes very close to killing) a good 85% of normals. Up against the PCs she is tough, but survivable needing normally 2 or 3 shots to drop someone.

 

Other people run different games though, so I think you just need to keep in mind how high defenses are when deciding how many dice she throws around.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Death Touch

 

The only problem I possibly see with a body drain is that you're going to have to be really careful with how many dice it is. Depending on how you run things, and how high PCs defenses are (specifically Power Defense), this power could either be useless, or an instant PC death.

 

Since the character is supposed to be a high powered campaign villain, point caps and such generally go out the window. However, you need to make sure how you want to handle this character's power level and possible PC deaths caused by her.

 

In most of the games I play 14 body is about average for a PC, and not many characters have much power defense (if any at all). So a 4d6 body drain is significant (average is 14 on the dice, 7 "damage") dealing an average of half a character's body each hit. 6d6 is fairly devastating (average of 10 "damage", rounded in the favor of the defender), and 9d6 (average 16) will outright kill over about 75% of characters.

 

So I would put her probably at 4d6 or 5d6 body drain. This means she kills (or comes very close to killing) a good 85% of normals. Up against the PCs she is tough, but survivable needing normally 2 or 3 shots to drop someone.

 

Other people run different games though, so I think you just need to keep in mind how high defenses are when deciding how many dice she throws around.

 

5d6 will not kill 85% of normals. You realize you need to reach negative of the BODY score to kill someone, right? A max roll on 5d6 is 15 (30, halved for beign against a defensive power/stat), which won't kill a normal with an average BODY of 8. So the 9d6 that does an average 16 BODY will kill many normals since 8 BODY is considered "average" but not most. Many people leave BODY at 10 (the default value for a PC) meaning the 9d6 wouldn't even kill completely defenseless "normals" with an average roll, though it has a better chance to hit higher.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Death Touch

 

Didnt the original Star Trek series have an episode with a woman on a planet they were exploring who could do that? (though I think she had to call their name, and of course, the redshirt bit it)

 

Anyhow, maybe similar l'm of some sort might be a good idea, just in case this gets a little unbalancing.

 

Each was genetically keyed to a particular target

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent, I'm suddenly wondering how any resulting fractions from that "half effect" rule should be rounded.

 

See, on closer reading the rounding rule on 6E1 12/13 doesn't really seem to concern itself with anything but Character Point costs, so it's not necessarily clear that it can be generalized to also apply to damage/effect rolls. And even assuming it can (which isn't really that much of a stretch, granted), the fact that it tells us to round fractions of .5 in whichever way would be "best for the character" could easily inject a dose of subjectivity where it's least wanted, namely in combat. Say you do have a 6d6 Drain BODY and roll 21 on the dice -- does that now mean that you drain 11 BODY if your target is a legitimate villain, but only 10 if you accidentally hit a teammate or innocent bystander? How does your power know the difference? (For that matter, if you use an armor-piercing attack and the original defense before halving is an odd number, do you round in favor of the attacker or the defender, and does it depend on whether or not either character is a PC?)

 

Mind, it's always entirely possible that I'm just being obtuse here. I assure you that it's not deliberate, though.

 

Round in favor of the character who has the power.

In the case of armor pierce, the power is defense so round the defense up.

 

Does a 'death touch' have to be instant?

 

Death touch: Drain BODY 2d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Death magic defences; +0), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (Turned off by any healing magic; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Effect (Body and CON simultaneously) (+1/2) (65 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Reduced effect through clothing (half effect through normal clothing, 1/3 effect through heavy clothing, no effect through thicker clothing); -1/2)

 

Death Magic Defense is way more than a +0 Advantage. In some super games I've seen nearly all the important characters' date=' PC and NPC, have at least some level of Power Defense. Who the heck is going to specifically have "Death Magic Defense"? And in a supers campaign assuming it's "magic" in and of itself is a stretch...[/quote']

 

the clothing thickness could be set equal to the already inherent limit defense power defense

1 for spandex

2 for tee shirt

4 for denim

+1 for each additional layer of clothing

[dmjalund]

Re: Death Touch

 

To maximize the NPC death rate while minimizing PC death rate, you might have it be half as effective on metahumans

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Death Touch

 

5d6 will not kill 85% of normals. You realize you need to reach negative of the BODY score to kill someone' date=' right? A max roll on 5d6 is 15 (30, halved for beign against a defensive power/stat), which won't kill a normal with an average BODY of 8. So the 9d6 that does an average 16 BODY will kill many normals since 8 BODY is considered "average" but not most. Many people leave BODY at 10 (the default value for a PC) meaning the 9d6 wouldn't even kill completely defenseless "normals" with an average roll, though it has a better chance to hit higher.[/quote']

 

The problem here is that a lot of Supers won't differ markedly from a normal for purposes of this attack. Supers tend to be much more resistant to killing attacks because they have resistant defenses, but not to all have power defense. They tend to have considerably more STUN than normals, but not a lot more BOD.

 

If you want an attack that slays Normals, but is less potent against Supers, perhaps the answer is a hybridized defense structure. It's for a master NPC, so points, and thus the exact build, are pretty much irrelevant. 14d6 of Drain, at standard effect, will always be 21 BOD drained. Maybe our villainess has 20d6 Drain, so she gets 30 BOD on a touch, killing most normals (anyone with 15 or less BOD) instantly and seriously injuring pretty much anyone.

 

But that "anyone" is targets without resistant defenses or power defense. Perhaps the Death Touch is reduced by both power defense and resistant energy defense. What does the average Hero in your game have for resistant energy defense + power defense? If it's about 10, this will only take the edge off, and the target will still take [60 -10 = 50/2 =] 25 BOD, still enough to kill many characters outright and seriously injure most others.

 

Maybe it's not 20d6, but 7d6 with 3 shot Autofire and +4 OCV that only reduces the penalty for successive autofire shots (so either all three hit or all three miss). The normal still takes [7 x 3 x 3 = 63/2 = 31.5] 31 BOD from a single hit, and is demolished. The Super with 10 resistant energy defense and power defense takes [7 x 3 = 21 - 10 = 11 x 3 = 33/2 =] 16 BOD, still quite significant but not fatal. Make it 4d6 and 5 autofires and the super takes [4 x 3 = 12 - 10 = 2 x 5 hits = 10/2 =] 5 BOD per hit. Still significant, but not dead by any stretch. Of course, that means 15 rED makes the attack useless. But you can run varying combinations to ensure that the PC's will be hurt (hoiw seriously is up to you) and not killed by a hit.

 

Now, at this point, you mnight forego power defense entirely and make this an HKA vs ED, STR does not add, no knockback, no stun (or 1x Stun Multiple) seasoned with autofire and OCV bonuses to ensure they all hit and forego the power defense issue entirely.

 

Of course, the problem that this character either loses the combat or kills her opponent remains problematic for most games. Unlike most master villains, she can't win the initial combat and have the PC's wake up in a Deathtrap - if she wins, they don't wake up.

[Gideon]

Re: Death Touch

 

5d6 will not kill 85% of normals. You realize you need to reach negative of the BODY score to kill someone' date=' right? A max roll on 5d6 is 15 (30, halved for beign against a defensive power/stat), which won't kill a normal with an average BODY of 8. So the 9d6 that does an average 16 BODY will kill many normals since 8 BODY is considered "average" but not most. Many people leave BODY at 10 (the default value for a PC) meaning the 9d6 wouldn't even kill completely defenseless "normals" with an average roll, though it has a better chance to hit higher.[/quote']Sorry, I should have said "take out" or something similar. However, even if it doesn't outright kill them, they are dying and may well bleed out if not helped quickly enough.

 

I also should have pointed out that most normals in the games I play DO have mostly average stats, so 8 body really is what most have.

 

On top of this, there isn't a whole lot of people with healing powers in most of the games I play, so fixing the "death touch" is a bit harder than some games.

 

And if the power has a significantly long return rate (say 5cp a week, or even better 5cp a month), there may just end up being an overcrowding in the local hospitals.