Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Well, thanks to the help of others posting in this thread, the 'mythology' of Icons Earth has already begun to expand from my initial rough draft write-up. I just wanted to say thanks to all who have commented.

 

Icons, those with superpowers, both heroes and villains, will be forces for change in the world. The end results of those changes has been touched on by the speculations of other posters.

 

As a new question topic, do you think I should limit Icons to adults? What about teen Icons? Sidekicks?

 

Could kids be given union suits. Hm... i think that would be very qualified maybe. Children may have difficult problems but their needs are not terribly abstract. I suggest the following, very loose criteria. To gain access to Icons, a person, regardless of their age, must have an internal conflict that they can't resolve that results in an inability to act. They must also be able to comprehend the consequences of and be responsible for their own actions. In other words they must reach some metaphorical capacity for consent. A few children and an increasing percentage of teens might be able to reach this standard--depending on what the story calls for.

 

As for sidekicks. Unpowered sidekicks don't pose any problem. Sidekicks who are Iconics in their own right don't pose any problem (nobody ever said all powers were created equal). Sidekick who are somehow empowered by being around Iconic mentors probably require some sort of metaphysical explanation, but it seems like more of a case by case problem than a systemic one.

[McCoy]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

That was part of my original conception to Icons, to keep the store mysterious and an urban legend by forbidding someone from revealing the existence of Icons or reveal their Secret ID on television or in a public location like Dodger's Stadium during a game in session, the penalty being permanent loss of powers. If a superhuman is unmasked in private, like a superhero by a supervillain in a lair, I would judge that to be that the identity is still not considered to be revealed to the public at large. I think I'm going to drop that penalty. Those who have accepted a costume just don't talk about Icons. Maybe I'll treat it as a 0-point Psych Complication for every superhuman.

 

One reason why I initially tied powers to costumes was to give a possible answer to incarcerating a supervillain. Out of costume, they'd be normal humans and could be locked up in a normal prison cell. An earlier poster gave a suggestion that I like, that the costume was actually a form of chrysalis, and the powers originally in the costume could gradually internalize to the owner and enable them to become a true superhuman. If this happened gradually enough, say over a year or two, Icon-enhanced supertechnologists would have enough time to come up with ugrades to prisons to allow for the incarceration of supervillains. I was thinking that Alcatraz would make for a good retrofitted prison site.

 

In the case of deaths, the Icon costume returns to Icons, able to be passed along to a successor. I'll keep that aspect of the campaign's initial premise. Maybe a new wearer gets 'reset' back to the starter status of the costume, and any additional powers a previous wearer obtained through alterations (and the spending of experience points) go away.

 

This raises the interesting issue of what happens to a superhuman who had their identity revealed against their will. If Superhero X is un-masked on television by his arch-enemy Supervillain Y, he has not violated the Icon Pact, so he wouldn't lose his powers. But the world would know that Superhero X was really Peter Kent, unless there is a physical change of appearance of the person under the costume. Maybe some superhumans would have such a change, but others would retain their own face.

 

In the case of a supervillain being held in custody after being defeated by a superhero, they were not un-masked and de-costumed of their own free will, so they are not permanently de-powered. Instead, they simply lack their powers until they can regain their costume. If they have allies on the outside, this would be a matter of stealing the costume back and staging a breakout.

Maybe the advantage to geting a "previously-owned" (villian) costume is higher starting points? The Green Goblin is captured, unmasked as Norm Osborn, and when taken out of costume turns out to be a talented normal. Norm is thrown in jail, and the costume disappears from the evidence locker. Weeks or months later, with Norm still in jail, the Green Goblin re-appears, same codename, same costume, same powers, but possibly different tactics and motivations. He's captured and a third Green Goblin appears. Then the comlication that the powers are no longer dependant on the costume, and Norm breaks out of jail to teach the upstart who stole his gig a lesson!

 

Maybe a bad example would stop PC's from revieling their ID's. (more later)

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Offtopic...Querysphinx, I heard your book is pretty good. How is it doing?

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Offtopic...Querysphinx' date=' I heard your book is pretty good. How is it doing?[/quote']

 

It's not really doing. It's been out of print for a while. This is not to say there aren't copies available. It's just not a "Live" book at the moment. Of course, I highly recommend reading it!

[Burrito Boy]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

On the subject of stealing costumes:

 

If a villain steals a heroes costume and uses it, will the suit force him to perform heroic acts while he's wearing it or can he commit crimes with it? And if he does commit crimes with it, how long will it be before it's taken away from him? I assume the Tailor knows who's using each suit and wouldn't hold the crimes against the hero whose suit was stolen. Aside from being ticked off at the inconvenience of confiscating the suit and returning it to it's original owner. Assuming that he does return the suits. Maybe someone coming back to claim his suit will be turned away for having failed in his responsibility. Or he could be given a different suit that's more his "style". And if villains catch on about suits not being returned, I would expect a wave of heroes going bad then disappearing and leaving the city at the mercy of the villains. If the heroes are given a second chance by the Tailor and "return," I wonder how well they would be recieved by people. Either way, it would be a major coup for the villains.

[McCoy]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Maybe a bad example would stop PC's from reveling their ID's. (more later)

Sorry I was interrupted.

 

OK, the Bad Example. One NPC, one of the first Heroes in the campaign, possibly a Brick with no flight, Came Out and went public. His archenemy, a flying Blaster, did some detective work, and (under an assumed name) got onto a commercial passenger flight with the Hero. Verifying that the Hero was not in costume the Villain ducked into the lavatory, put on his costume, and broke up the plane around them. The Villain flew away. The Hero somehow survived (some say he had his costume in his carry-on and managed to put it on as he fell, some say he was rescued by another Hero, some say it was just miraculous luck) (or maybe the first indication that not all the powers are in the suits). No one else survived. But since then the Hero has been the Poster Boy for Excessive Force, not bringing a single Villain in alive since that day and Hunted by both sides. "You know how in the funnybooks they say that the hero has a Secret ID because otherwise his loved ones would be in danger? No Secret ID endangers the innocent bystanders too, so keep the secret even if you have no loved ones."

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

It's not really doing. It's been out of print for a while. This is not to say there aren't copies available. It's just not a "Live" book at the moment. Of course' date=' I highly recommend reading it![/quote']

 

I have ordered it and am looking forward to a good read.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I hadn't thought about that aspect of having a Secret ID, McCoy...excellent point.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Could kids be given union suits. Hm... i think that would be very qualified maybe. Children may have difficult problems but their needs are not terribly abstract. I suggest the following, very loose criteria. To gain access to Icons, a person, regardless of their age, must have an internal conflict that they can't resolve that results in an inability to act. They must also be able to comprehend the consequences of and be responsible for their own actions. In other words they must reach some metaphorical capacity for consent. A few children and an increasing percentage of teens might be able to reach this standard--depending on what the story calls for.

 

As for sidekicks. Unpowered sidekicks don't pose any problem. Sidekicks who are Iconics in their own right don't pose any problem (nobody ever said all powers were created equal). Sidekick who are somehow empowered by being around Iconic mentors probably require some sort of metaphysical explanation, but it seems like more of a case by case problem than a systemic one.

 

I think teenagers would be a very small percentage of Icons at first, but I am going to make them a possibility since Spider-Man started out as a teenager and grew to be quite a capable hero. I think I will follow the power suggestions in Teen Champions and cut their powers a bit when compared to an adult Icon. Still superhuman, but one that is not quite as potent as an adult.

 

The notion of an Iconic sidekick gaining powers from an Iconic mentor is an interesting one. Perhaps an Icon can return to Icons for a lesser-powered version of his own costume to empower an Iconic sidekick. Icons does provide the wannabe criminal mastermind with costumes and equipment for outfitting their followers/agents, so a sidekick would be something like a lieutenant-level costume. It would have a similar theme to the Iconic mentor. It would be a case by case basis.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Sorry I was interrupted.

 

OK, the Bad Example. One NPC, one of the first Heroes in the campaign, possibly a Brick with no flight, Came Out and went public. His archenemy, a flying Blaster, did some detective work, and (under an assumed name) got onto a commercial passenger flight with the Hero. Verifying that the Hero was not in costume the Villain ducked into the lavatory, put on his costume, and broke up the plane around them. The Villain flew away. The Hero somehow survived (some say he had his costume in his carry-on and managed to put it on as he fell, some say he was rescued by another Hero, some say it was just miraculous luck) (or maybe the first indication that not all the powers are in the suits). No one else survived. But since then the Hero has been the Poster Boy for Excessive Force, not bringing a single Villain in alive since that day and Hunted by both sides. "You know how in the funnybooks they say that the hero has a Secret ID because otherwise his loved ones would be in danger? No Secret ID endangers the innocent bystanders too, so keep the secret even if you have no loved ones."

 

This is a very good point, and I rep you for mentioning it. Some villains don't care about collateral damage, and would be happy to nuke a city block if they were sure they could get the meddling hero out of the way. Having one of the first Icons have this happen would be a great lesson on why secret IDs are important: They protect the innocent bystander.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

On the subject of stealing costumes:

 

If a villain steals a heroes costume and uses it, will the suit force him to perform heroic acts while he's wearing it or can he commit crimes with it? And if he does commit crimes with it, how long will it be before it's taken away from him? I assume the Tailor knows who's using each suit and wouldn't hold the crimes against the hero whose suit was stolen. Aside from being ticked off at the inconvenience of confiscating the suit and returning it to it's original owner. Assuming that he does return the suits. Maybe someone coming back to claim his suit will be turned away for having failed in his responsibility. Or he could be given a different suit that's more his "style". And if villains catch on about suits not being returned, I would expect a wave of heroes going bad then disappearing and leaving the city at the mercy of the villains. If the heroes are given a second chance by the Tailor and "return," I wonder how well they would be recieved by people. Either way, it would be a major coup for the villains.

 

The way I am viewing the costumes is that they are like a focus, but one that does not get taken away, hence why I am using "Only In Alternate ID" as a Limitation on the powers. In the rare event that a costume does get stolen, it won't work for anyone else but the original customer as long as he's alive. To anyone else, it's basically just Bulletproof Spandex, at most.

 

If a character does want to take his costume as an actual Focus, such as powered armor or a personal weapon like a blaster pistol, this will likely have to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Some street punk may get his hands on a blaster pistol from Supervillain X, but it is keyed to the villain and won't work. Of course, what could be interesting is if a henchman loses the blaster pistol he was givenby his boss. That gun might work for anyone. I'll have to think about such issues when I write the section in my campaign document about henchman and Icon Tech.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I've posted an example character from Icons Earth here.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

i found the valia thread

the seems to be a "mr roark"[from fantasy island to the tailor

[casualplayer]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the costumes have pockets, and occasionally things appear in those pockets? Trinkets, notes, keepsakes and such. Clues and leads and curiosities.

 

What if the requirement of the garb, hero or villain, is to be ostentatious and dramatic? Draw eyes and attention and "build the brand."

 

What if some costumes reference and resurrect folklore and myth? A lion's pelt worn like a cape or a tricorner hat or an enormous red plaid, lumberjack's shirt.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the costumes have pockets, and occasionally things appear in those pockets? Trinkets, notes, keepsakes and such. Clues and leads and curiosities.

 

What if the requirement of the garb, hero or villain, is to be ostentatious and dramatic? Draw eyes and attention and "build the brand."

 

What if some costumes reference and resurrect folklore and myth? A lion's pelt worn like a cape or a tricorner hat or an enormous red plaid, lumberjack's shirt.

 

...or a ring, helmet or other simple piece of equipment that, when donned (and/or activated) transforms the character (or enables him to transform at will, so long as the item is worn/wielded in a prescribed way)? Excalibur anyone? He-man's sword? Green Lantern's ring? Sinbad Jr.'s belt? Etc?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

space ghost or samson's power bands

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the costumes have pockets, and occasionally things appear in those pockets? Trinkets, notes, keepsakes and such. Clues and leads and curiosities.

 

What if the requirement of the garb, hero or villain, is to be ostentatious and dramatic? Draw eyes and attention and "build the brand."

 

What if some costumes reference and resurrect folklore and myth? A lion's pelt worn like a cape or a tricorner hat or an enormous red plaid, lumberjack's shirt.

 

That's a good idea on setting up clues and leads. I hadn't thought about that aspect of how an Icon costume could work. I rep thee.

 

Myths and legends are definitely possible sources for costumes. I'm still trying to decide how I feel about allowing costumes that replicate a character from the comic books (like a GL uniform and ring or Spider-man's costume). I think it's better to make players come up with original ideas instead of looking through Icons for an actual comic book character's costume.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

...or a ring' date=' helmet or other simple piece of equipment that, when donned (and/or activated) transforms the character (or enables him to transform at will, so long as the item is worn/wielded in a prescribed way)? Excalibur anyone? He-man's sword? Green Lantern's ring? Sinbad Jr.'s belt? Etc?[/quote']

 

Those are possibilities. I'm considering how best to portray some of those, since I think the "Only in Alternate ID" Limitation recommends having it take a turn or more to transform, which a costume change would cover. He-Man's sword and GL's ring I think are one phase transforms.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Those are possibilities. I'm considering how best to portray some of those' date=' since I think the "Only in Alternate ID" Limitation recommends having it take a turn or more to transform, which a costume change would cover. He-Man's sword and GL's ring I think are one phase transforms.[/quote']

 

Full phase or more, actually (6E1 387, very first sentence). It can apparently be faster if there's some reasonably convenient way to prevent the ID change, too; the point being, I think, that while OIAID is supposed to be a Limitation, it's meant to inconvenience but not cripple the character. (Consider what being caught in the wrong ID when a fight suddenly breaks out could actually mean for somebody who needs a full turn or more to change. Best case, they miss out on a fair bit of the action; worst case, they get taken out of the fight altogether -- and possibly even killed -- before they can finish 'transforming' at all.)

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Full phase or more' date=' actually (6E1 387, very first sentence). It can apparently be faster if there's some reasonably convenient way to prevent the ID change, too; the point being, I think, that while OIAID is supposed to be a Limitation, it's meant to inconvenience but not cripple the character. (Consider what being caught in the wrong ID when a fight suddenly breaks out could actually mean for somebody who needs a full turn or more to change. Best case, they miss out on a fair bit of the action; worst case, they get taken out of the fight altogether -- and possibly even killed -- before they can finish 'transforming' at all.)[/quote']

 

Actually, with a phase or more being a limitation, I'm reminded of a scene in The Greatest American Hero where I vaguely recall he was wearing the costume under his clothes, but its powers wouldn't work until he took everything off that was over the costume. Thank you for the correction to my memories of how that limitation works.

 

I am working on one of the major villains of Icons Earth, and I hope to post soon.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

would one of these uniforms be of a martial arts variety?

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

would one of these uniforms be of a martial arts variety?

 

Yes, there are martial artists among the costumed identities available. The one difficulty would be that martial arts techniques cannot be bought with Limitations. I'm not sure how I want to approach that. I may have to do starting martial artist Icons as buying their martial arts as powers to start.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

You could easily build your own list of martial arts maneuvers with Powers and even limited Characteristics. You don’t need to buy Martial Dodge, just buy +X DVC, OIHI, Only when performing Dodge. +X HA with OIHI and various limitations to present different strikes. It may seem like a pain, but several of the classic Champions martial artists are already built this way (even though they usually have Martial Maneuvers as well).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Another option would be that the character, having worn the suit, would remember the moves, but so what? High DEX and CV are classic elements of martial arts super heroes, and those elements will be bought through the costume. With 10 DEX, 10 STR, 3 OCV/DCV, SPD 2 or 3, so what if he has 10 or even 15 points of Martial Maneuvers? It will help him out in a bar fight, but as soon as he runs into armed henchmen he’s aborting to Martial Dodge every action or he gets shot in the face. Don’t give him the MA extra Damage Classes; give him +X STR, OIHI, Only for performing Martial Maneuvers. Since Skills can be bought as Powers even make his KS: Kung Fu (or whatever) be OIHI.

 

Also, it could be that the martial arts costumes tend to gravitate towards actual martial artists. A mid-level martial artists, say green or purple in American Freestyle Karate, could easily justify 10 points of martial arts, but unless he has conditioned himself to actually fight (increased DEX and OCV, possibly increased STR or DC and some extra PD) that knowledge is pretty much only good for self-defense or point sparring. A boxer, kick-boxer, or mixed martial artist (who will have the aforementioned extra CV, DEX, Damage Classes, et cetera) is still going to hand him his but in an actual fight.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Another option would be that the character, having worn the suit, would remember the moves, but so what? High DEX and CV are classic elements of martial arts super heroes, and those elements will be bought through the costume. With 10 DEX, 10 STR, 3 OCV/DCV, SPD 2 or 3, so what if he has 10 or even 15 points of Martial Maneuvers? It will help him out in a bar fight, but as soon as he runs into armed henchmen he’s aborting to Martial Dodge every action or he gets shot in the face. Don’t give him the MA extra Damage Classes; give him +X STR, OIHI, Only for performing Martial Maneuvers. Since Skills can be bought as Powers even make his KS: Kung Fu (or whatever) be OIHI.

 

Also, it could be that the martial arts costumes tend to gravitate towards actual martial artists. A mid-level martial artists, say green or purple in American Freestyle Karate, could easily justify 10 points of martial arts, but unless he has conditioned himself to actually fight (increased DEX and OCV, possibly increased STR or DC and some extra PD) that knowledge is pretty much only good for self-defense or point sparring. A boxer, kick-boxer, or mixed martial artist (who will have the aforementioned extra CV, DEX, Damage Classes, et cetera) is still going to hand him his but in an actual fight.

 

Very good points, sir. The limitation on not being able to put Limitations on martial arts maneuvers just requires a little thinking outside the box.

 

Repped.