Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Doesn't have to be. Maybe part of the reason the shops appear is BECAUSE there are already superheroes and supervillains present, and this is in some sense a response to that.

 

I note that there's also the option to say "no thanks" and walk out. Such a person probably would never see the shop again, but such people talking about are probably the reason so much as the "urban legend" exists.

 

Supposing I say "Both!" and take both a hero and a villain costume?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary option

 

Well, when I originally wrote my notes on Icons, it was intended as a single source for superpowers in the world. People could claim other origins when they talked to the press, but the real power source was Icons and the costumes it provides.

 

Yes, there are people who would just say no. This would surprise the Tailor, but taking a costume is an act of free will. Yes, in a world suddenly filling with superhumans, the people who said no would be the source of the urban legends of its existence.

 

Only one costume to a customer, and you must agree to being a hero or villain. You can't choose both. The reason for this is part of why Icons exists.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

and if a villlian reformed?what then?

[Chimera 12]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I'll say this: While the idea of everybody in the world getting their superpowers from a particular Mysterious Store That Wasn't There Yesterday does appeal to me on some level, I honestly don't like the "you're all puppets on strings that can be cut anytime" feel of this particular implementation.

 

Thus, if I were to use something like Icons, I'd make one key change: once the shop has granted somebody powers, they can not simply be revoked. They might revert to the 'inventory' once the current user dies or voluntarily gives them up...but neither the Tailor nor whoever might be behind him has the power to simply snap his/her/its fingers (or whatever) and revert a customer to their previous unpowered self just like that.

 

Doesn't mean, of course, that the shop can't make trouble for recalcitrant customers in other ways...for example by 'powering up' other people specifically to do so. (Instant arch-nemesis/rogues' gallery!) And the secret could still be kept fairly easily -- whatever process actually grants those powers effectively is already doing a pretty drastic rewrite of the customer's notional 'character sheet', so adding a Physical Complication: Cannot Mention Icons To Outsiders (infrequently, barely impairing) as it goes about its job shouldn't really be all that much more difficult.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I'll say this: While the idea of everybody in the world getting their superpowers from a particular Mysterious Store That Wasn't There Yesterday does appeal to me on some level, I honestly don't like the "you're all puppets on strings that can be cut anytime" feel of this particular implementation.

 

I have to agree. It smacks too heavily of "do it my way or else I take your toys away".

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I'll say this: While the idea of everybody in the world getting their superpowers from a particular Mysterious Store That Wasn't There Yesterday does appeal to me on some level, I honestly don't like the "you're all puppets on strings that can be cut anytime" feel of this particular implementation.

 

Thus, if I were to use something like Icons, I'd make one key change: once the shop has granted somebody powers, they can not simply be revoked. They might revert to the 'inventory' once the current user dies or voluntarily gives them up...but neither the Tailor nor whoever might be behind him has the power to simply snap his/her/its fingers (or whatever) and revert a customer to their previous unpowered self just like that.

 

Doesn't mean, of course, that the shop can't make trouble for recalcitrant customers in other ways...for example by 'powering up' other people specifically to do so. (Instant arch-nemesis/rogues' gallery!) And the secret could still be kept fairly easily -- whatever process actually grants those powers effectively is already doing a pretty drastic rewrite of the customer's notional 'character sheet', so adding a Physical Complication: Cannot Mention Icons To Outsiders (infrequently, barely impairing) as it goes about its job shouldn't really be all that much more difficult.

 

That's a fair argument, and it's not a bad suggestion for adjusting the premise. I could also have Icons move around to help maintain its secretive existence. What I was trying to avoid was to have mass amounts of people led to the store by someone who had already gained powers there. This is supposed to be an elite boutique, not Walmart.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

and if a villlian reformed?what then?

 

Most of the time in the comics, it is temporary, so I would imagine it would be temporary in this world too.

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

This whole thread reminds me of Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season Two, Halloween - Where the Chaos Mage Ethan Rayne turns everyone into their costumes on Halloween. And you would not beleive how much Fan Fiction that one single episode generated... sheesh

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Thinking about this concept on the way home tonight, so it's at least interesting enough to absorb my attention (Absorbtion 2D6 only vs. attention). And I was thinking that the way it might work best, from a thematic angle is that the store is basically outside society (most people can't see it; ti has its own bylaws) and the people who end up in the store have to have two particular traits, 1) They are at a moment of personal crisis and 2) society has failed them in some way. Maybe their spouse was killed by a thug who got taken to court and let out by a corrupt judge or something similar.

 

What this shop represents, from a metastory angle is a chance to change the world, either by lashing out at society, or by succoring the disaffected. This would obviate the need for an obvious hero/villain choice. They only rule would be, "you have to make it right." Those who become villans would be the sort to whom make it right means, "get revenge," "get rich," "get power," or what have you. Those who become heroes would be the ones to whom make it right means, "don't let anyone suffer the same fate I did," or "put a stop to the corruption."

 

It seems to me that this would obviate the puppet on a string approach to game mastering. The only way the powers would be "taken back" would be if the recipient stopped trying to make things right. There are lots of places a story like that could go.

[Escafarc]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I think I would go with two different shops,one heroes the other villians, run by two different "Tailors". It would be a game between the two them with rules that only they know.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Thinking about this concept on the way home tonight, so it's at least interesting enough to absorb my attention (Absorbtion 2D6 only vs. attention). And I was thinking that the way it might work best, from a thematic angle is that the store is basically outside society (most people can't see it; ti has its own bylaws) and the people who end up in the store have to have two particular traits, 1) They are at a moment of personal crisis and 2) society has failed them in some way. Maybe their spouse was killed by a thug who got taken to court and let out by a corrupt judge or something similar.

 

What this shop represents, from a metastory angle is a chance to change the world, either by lashing out at society, or by succoring the disaffected. This would obviate the need for an obvious hero/villain choice. They only rule would be, "you have to make it right." Those who become villans would be the sort to whom make it right means, "get revenge," "get rich," "get power," or what have you. Those who become heroes would be the ones to whom make it right means, "don't let anyone suffer the same fate I did," or "put a stop to the corruption."

 

It seems to me that this would obviate the puppet on a string approach to game mastering. The only way the powers would be "taken back" would be if the recipient stopped trying to make things right. There are lots of places a story like that could go.

 

These are interesting ideas. In my original write-up, I was looking at Icons as a single power source for superhumans that would allow for a lot of variety, much like how Gestalt works. I had some ground rules in mind to keep it out of the public eye and a little mysterious, but I definitely don't want to puppetize PCs. Having PC heroes help others and fight villains seemed pretty minimal of a requirement for retaining their powers. I wasn't planning to run a villains campaign.

 

Having Icons show up to offer a character a chance to make things right for them does offer a stronger thematic feel, maybe a more visceral call to becoming a superhuman. In my notes, I was thinking that there would be roughly 3-4 customers who would choose villainy for each one who would choose to be a hero. This would allow each hero an opportunity to acquire a modest rogue's gallery of enemies.

 

One of the themes behind Icons is exploring what motivates superhumans. For villains, it's frequently revenge or a desire for power or weath. For heroes, some want to prevent others from experiencing a tragedy they experienced (Spider-Man and Batman), and others have a desire to use their powers for the betterment of mankind or to help others because they feel it's a duty (Captain America and Superman).

 

In thinking about superhumans empowered by Icons, if the powers are derived from the costumes, then requiring all superpowers to be taken with either the Limitations "Only in Alternate ID" or some type of Focus allows supervillains to be housed in ordinary prison facilities. If powers are allowed to be inherent, then special facilities are required. I'm inclined to go with the former, but I wondered what others thought.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I think I would go with two different shops' date='one heroes the other villians, run by two different "Tailors". It would be a game between the two them with rules that only they know.[/quote']

 

This is something I considered. Would a supervillain Tailor still use a store name of Icons? What might be an alternate name?

[Escafarc]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

This is something I considered. Would a supervillain Tailor still use a store name of Icons? What might be an alternate name?

 

How about Rogues?

 

 

In fact what if the two "Tailors" are just a couple of "other-worldly" teenagers playing a RPG call "Icons & Rogues"

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

These are interesting ideas. In my original write-up' date=' I was looking at Icons as a single power source for superhumans that would allow for a lot of variety, much like how [i']Gestalt[/i] works. I had some ground rules in mind to keep it out of the public eye and a little mysterious, but I definitely don't want to puppetize PCs. Having PC heroes help others and fight villains seemed pretty minimal of a requirement for retaining their powers. I wasn't planning to run a villains campaign.

 

Having Icons show up to offer a character a chance to make things right for them does offer a stronger thematic feel, maybe a more visceral call to becoming a superhuman. In my notes, I was thinking that there would be roughly 3-4 customers who would choose villainy for each one who would choose to be a hero. This would allow each hero an opportunity to acquire a modest rogue's gallery of enemies.

 

One of the themes behind Icons is exploring what motivates superhumans. For villains, it's frequently revenge or a desire for power or weath. For heroes, some want to prevent others from experiencing a tragedy they experienced (Spider-Man and Batman), and others have a desire to use their powers for the betterment of mankind or to help others because they feel it's a duty (Captain America and Superman).

 

I think that the "make it right" requirement helps you out with the choices hero have to make angle, because as Spiderman and Batman aptly demonstrate, being a good guy isn't a choice you make just once. It's choice you make over and over again. Making it only once at the beginning gives the whole thing a fey-pact vibe which players might get tired of ofter a while.

 

In thinking about superhumans empowered by Icons, if the powers are derived from the costumes, then requiring all superpowers to be taken with either the Limitations "Only in Alternate ID" or some type of Focus allows supervillains to be housed in ordinary prison facilities. If powers are allowed to be inherent, then special facilities are required. I'm inclined to go with the former, but I wondered what others thought.

 

I think tying the powers to the suits would work really well for the game as you have described it.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

This is something I considered. Would a supervillain Tailor still use a store name of Icons? What might be an alternate name?

 

The first idea that popped into my mind when reading that suggestion was that of course the 'villainous' Tailor would run his (identical-looking) store under the same name...because of course he'd be the 'heroic' one's literal or figurative evil twin deliberately pretending to be the same person for maximum confusion and mayhem.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

How about Rogues?

 

 

In fact what if the two "Tailors" are just a couple of "other-worldly" teenagers playing a RPG call "Icons & Rogues"

 

Well, it's certainly a different way to look at it. Icons might still fit, since you can have icons of good and icons of evil.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

If you go with the idea that the powers are granted by the costume (as in Greatest American Hero), how does one gain abilities over time (i.e. how do they spend experience points)? Do they have to go back to the tailor for 'alterations,' or is it just previously undiscovered abilities of the costume? Do they have to pay extra for the owner's manual?

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I think tying the powers to the suits would work really well for the game as you have described it.

 

It does also give me the advantage that I can re-use a costumed identity by just plunking a new person into the suit, if the current wearer dies.

 

In the case of costumed villains, I'm wondering how they would be treated in prison by other inmates. They wouldn't have their superpowers to protect them. Would they be mocked for wearing costumes? Beaten up?

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

If you go with the idea that the powers are granted by the costume (as in Greatest American Hero)' date=' how does one gain abilities over time (i.e. how do they spend experience points)? Do they have to go back to the tailor for 'alterations,' or is it just previously undiscovered abilities of the costume? Do they have to pay extra for the owner's manual?[/quote']

 

That's a great question, and I was thinking about it recently. I think spending experience points on additional superpowers could require a visit back to the Tailor for alterations. If it's a variation on a previous ability, like a new slot in a multipower, I could be talked into it being something discovered.

 

Experience points could be spent on non-superpowered abilities without a visit back to the Tailor, of course.

 

I would imagine the Tailor would give basic instructions on the powers available. A user's manual might be an amusing addition.

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

That's a great question, and I was thinking about it recently. I think spending experience points on additional superpowers could require a visit back to the Tailor for alterations. If it's a variation on a previous ability, like a new slot in a multipower, I could be talked into it being something discovered.

 

Experience points could be spent on non-superpowered abilities without a visit back to the Tailor, of course.

 

I would imagine the Tailor would give basic instructions on the powers available. A user's manual might be an amusing addition.

 

I think that, depending on what sort of mood you're trying to set, one shop with one tailor would probably work best. He/she isn't an agent of good or evil, just an agent of change.

 

The example that springs to mind is Olivander's wand shop in Harry Potter. "I say the wizard chooses the wand, but of course it is the wand that chooses the wizard." "Voldermort did great things with that wand, Terrible, but great."

 

As for gaining powers, expending xps etc. It could be that the shop summon people who need to undergo change, and the suits are like cocoons in which the new super humans slowly metamorphose. The suits are more like psychic conduits that make this inner self manifest in some way, and as the inner self changes so do the powers. There might even come a time, when heroes who have embraced their new selves totally could shed the skins.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

might a certain TUXEDO be among the men's costumes

[DusterBoy]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

This reminds me of a old Batman story found in an anthology of such stories. The old man in the store doesn't care if his customers are heroes or villains, he just makes their costumes and can provide anything asked for, no matter how pedantic you get. He can also advise you on improvements, gadgets etc. The central theme of the story is that this is the hole in the wall which Batman comes to for his costume, but we're also told the Riddler as one of his customers and, in the last line of the story, Selina Kyle as well, with the implication that he only sees one customer at a time so fights don't break out.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

As for gaining powers' date=' expending xps etc. It could be that the shop summon people who need to undergo change, and the suits are like cocoons in which the new super humans slowly metamorphose. The suits are more like psychic conduits that make this inner self manifest in some way, and as the inner self changes so do the powers. There might even come a time, when heroes who have embraced their new selves totally could shed the skins.[/quote']

So, in this scenario the costume is just a special effect of a gradual effect major transform? Interesting idea.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I think that' date=' depending on what sort of mood you're trying to set, one shop with one tailor would probably work best. He/she isn't an agent of good or evil, just an agent of [i']change.[/i]

 

The example that springs to mind is Olivander's wand shop in Harry Potter. "I say the wizard chooses the wand, but of course it is the wand that chooses the wizard." "Voldermort did great things with that wand, Terrible, but great."

 

As for gaining powers, expending xps etc. It could be that the shop summon people who need to undergo change, and the suits are like cocoons in which the new super humans slowly metamorphose. The suits are more like psychic conduits that make this inner self manifest in some way, and as the inner self changes so do the powers. There might even come a time, when heroes who have embraced their new selves totally could shed the skins.

 

The one shop and Tailor as the source for superpowers and costumes is getting back to my original idea. The shop and Tailor are agents for change, and I would hope a positive change if such a thing was ever injected into the real world. The creation of supervillains is offset by the creation of superheroes to oppose them, and those superheroes improve the world more than supervillains may damage it.

 

I'm intrigued by the idea of the costume limitation eventually being bought off. Since the minimum required limitation to reflect the costumes being the source of the powers is -1/4 (IIF or Only In Alternate ID), it is not a heavy buyoff burden. I've actually been toying with the idea of having a portion of the powers become inherent to the user over time, starting with around 20 Active Points for Attacks, 10 for Defenses, and 5 for other powers, depending on the power. Characters could start to buy off the suit limitation in increments. The player would know that the suit would eventually become unneeded, but it might be a shock to the character. The suit would be a sort of loan of build points.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

This reminds me of a old Batman story found in an anthology of such stories. The old man in the store doesn't care if his customers are heroes or villains' date=' he just makes their costumes and can provide anything asked for, no matter how pedantic you get. He can also advise you on improvements, gadgets etc. The central theme of the story is that this is the hole in the wall which Batman comes to for his costume, but we're also told the Riddler as one of his customers and, in the last line of the story, Selina Kyle as well, with the implication that he only sees one customer at a time so fights don't break out.[/quote']

 

There are a few examples from the comics of people who act as suppliers to the superheroes and supervillains. I think Marvel had the Tinkerer in such a role.

[torchwolf]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

There are a few examples from the comics of people who act as suppliers to the superheroes and supervillains. I think Marvel had the Tinkerer in such a role.

Oh yes, he was responsible for such amazing villains as the Rocket Skater and the Big Wheel.

 

There are some interesting examples of mysterious shopkeepers though: DC has the fairly enigmatic Barter, and Marvel had Mr Jip, each attending curio shops at different times.

Of course there are some more sinister examples from movies: Gremlins, Hellraiser, etc.

 

Might be interesting if there also occasionally were strange little trinkets available for "a certain price"...?