Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

[Clonus]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

So where do characters like Punisher and Magneto fit in? Neither are heroes and neither are villains. Punisher does what he does to punish criminals who seem 'untouchable' by the law but he is far from being a hero. And Magneto does what he does to protect his people.

 

A killer vigilante still opposes villains and therefore qualifies as a hero by the store's standards. Then again he could always kill and rob villains and qualify as a villain by the store's standards. A racial supremacist like Magneto would probably choose "villain" since committing the required robberies of the race they regard as an enemy is no great inconvenience to them.

[Chuckem]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Magneto's motivations for what he does are as much about protecting "his people" as Hitler's were.

 

The difference is that Magneto is right.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

The difference is that Magneto is right.

Magneto is right? He's right that mutants are the superior to humans and should rule the world and treat everyone else as slaves? He's right that genocide is justified because caucasians, err, sorry, I mean mutants, are naturally superior? I disagree.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

So where do characters like Punisher and Magneto fit in? Neither are heroes and neither are villains. Punisher does what he does to punish criminals who seem 'untouchable' by the law but he is far from being a hero. And Magneto does what he does to protect his people.

 

The Punisher would not be an Icon, which is defined as a person with superpowers.

 

Icons is now a bit different from my original concept. Villains don't have to pay anything for their costumes, and the Tailor only asks his "Hero or Villain" question to satisfy his own curiosity. You can take a costume and do with it whatever you like, but it should be used. It needs to be used. Generally, an Icon will choose a side. It's very rare for an Icon to want to do something outside of traditional comic book roles of superhero or supervillain.

 

The world of Icons has evolved conceptually from my original posting. It uses many elements of the Champions Universe as a framework, but a version of the CU where superpowers never showed up until the Icons began appearing in mid-2005.

[csyphrett]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

The Punisher would not be an Icon, which is defined as a person with superpowers.

 

Icons is now a bit different from my original concept. Villains don't have to pay anything for their costumes, and the Tailor only asks his "Hero or Villain" question to satisfy his own curiosity. You can take a costume and do with it whatever you like, but it should be used. It needs to be used. Generally, an Icon will choose a side. It's very rare for an Icon to want to do something outside of traditional comic book roles of superhero or supervillain.

 

The world of Icons has evolved conceptually from my original posting. It uses many elements of the Champions Universe as a framework, but a version of the CU where superpowers never showed up until the Icons began appearing in mid-2005.

 

What brought about hte change Steve?

CES

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What brought about hte change Steve?

CES

 

Icons Earth was created as a result of the Secret Crisis in 1985. From what I read in the brief description of that event, millions of superhumans sacrificed their lives to deal with it. Where did all that "identity energy" (for lack of a better term) go?

 

On Icons Earth, the 1938 magic mishap that ushered in the Superhuman Age never occurred. It is very much like CU Earth, but altered by that not happening.

 

On the 20th anniversary of the Secret Crisis, Icons opens its doors, containing the costumes and identities of those lost superhumans from thousands of different realities. On Icons Earth, there is an analog (and sometimes more than one) for each of them. Each time someone takes a costume, it opens a small hole, a pinprick in Reality, and that identity energy begins flowing in and through the person wearing the costume. If they wear it long enough (aquire enough xps), the powers become internal to them, and they no longer need the costume to become superhuman.

 

As a side-effect of Reality altering with each Icon who takes up a costume, Icons Earth is changing quickly to one where superhumans are a common sight. As of late 2006, when the campaign begins, thousands are in existence around the world, and their numbers are growing at an increasing rate.

 

Icons Earth draws a lot of inspiration from Scott Bennie's Gestalt Earth, but I'm using a different power source.

[Chuckem]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Magneto is right? He's right that mutants are the superior to humans and should rule the world and treat everyone else as slaves? He's right that genocide is justified because caucasians, err, sorry, I mean mutants, are naturally superior? I disagree.

 

He is right in that normal humans will never accept mutants and that mutants *are* superior because they are the next step in human evolution. He tried the good route and it did not work. He is not a bad man, his methods are bad. Humanity created him.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

He is right in that normal humans will never accept mutants and that mutants *are* superior because they are the next step in human evolution. He tried the good route and it did not work. He is not a bad man' date=' his methods are bad. Humanity created him.[/quote']

 

I disagree. He lost patience and wanted results now. He's basically just a reform Nazi whose "problem" isn't the Jews, but anyone who isn't a "mutant", a distinction that defies definition apart from being a minority whose primary common trait is the ability to set off "mutant detectors".

 

Of course, I'm confused by Marvel's treatment of mutants in a world where they aren't the only possessors of superhuman traits. Why is Tigra not persecuted when the Beast is? They are both animalistic humans, but the only real difference between the two is that the Beast is a "mutant" and Tigra isn't. I know it's an allegory about prejudice of all sorts, , but the Marvel's implementation of "Mutants versus Normals" lumps all superheroes in with the humans except for the few who are designated as mutants. The logic behind what constitutes a mutant seems trivial to me compared to the similarities mutants share with other supers, so why are they persecuted and the rest get a pass?

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Icons Earth was created as a result of the Secret Crisis in 1985. From what I read in the brief description of that event, millions of superhumans sacrificed their lives to deal with it. Where did all that "identity energy" (for lack of a better term) go?

 

On Icons Earth, the 1938 magic mishap that ushered in the Superhuman Age never occurred. It is very much like CU Earth, but altered by that not happening.

 

On the 20th anniversary of the Secret Crisis, Icons opens its doors, containing the costumes and identities of those lost superhumans from thousands of different realities. On Icons Earth, there is an analog (and sometimes more than one) for each of them. Each time someone takes a costume, it opens a small hole, a pinprick in Reality, and that identity energy begins flowing in and through the person wearing the costume. If they wear it long enough (aquire enough xps), the powers become internal to them, and they no longer need the costume to become superhuman.

 

As a side-effect of Reality altering with each Icon who takes up a costume, Icons Earth is changing quickly to one where superhumans are a common sight. As of late 2006, when the campaign begins, thousands are in existence around the world, and their numbers are growing at an increasing rate.

 

Icons Earth draws a lot of inspiration from Scott Bennie's Gestalt Earth, but I'm using a different power source.

 

So, if the campaign concept is different now, is Icons still untouchable, or does it have people picketing out front and government surveillance at all times of day and night? (The govt. would be of the mindset--"This thing spits out random assets/threats. We must make sure we control it/them!")

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

So' date=' if the campaign concept is different now, is Icons still untouchable, or does it have people picketing out front and government surveillance at all times of day and night? (The govt. would be of the mindset--"This thing spits out random assets/threats. We must make sure we control it/them!")[/quote']

 

Icons is still an "urban legend" in a sense, and it's not out in the open. There is just one Icons store, but the storefront appears anywhere, when a suitable candidate for a costume is at an emotional point when they would be ready to accept a costume.

 

The Iconoclasts also still exist, people who have been given a chance at having superpowers and refuse. They are very loosely organized and may form the basis of something like the anti-mutant/anti-superhuman groups you see in other worlds.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Icons is still an "urban legend" in a sense, and it's not out in the open. There is just one Icons store, but the storefront appears anywhere, when a suitable candidate for a costume is at an emotional point when they would be ready to accept a costume.

 

The Iconoclasts also still exist, people who have been given a chance at having superpowers and refuse. They are very loosely organized and may form the basis of something like the anti-mutant/anti-superhuman groups you see in other worlds.

 

Regarding the Iconoclasts, keep in mind that only some of those who refuse will conclude that no-one should have superpowers. If they don't have superpowers, just how do they intend to oppose supers? Legislation? Smear campaigns? Some will likely resort to as direct a form of opposition as they can muster. Others will prefer to operate covertly, as a terrorist group.

[Lucius]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Regarding the Iconoclasts' date=' keep in mind that only some of those who refuse will conclude that no-one should have superpowers. If they don't have superpowers, just how do they intend to oppose supers? Legislation? Smear campaigns? Some will likely resort to as direct a form of opposition as they can muster. Others will prefer to operate covertly, as a terrorist group.[/quote']

 

And only some of those who conclude that no one should have superpowers will be those who have refused them. In fact, most of them probably won't have had the chance. Those who did, however, would have a sort of moral authority.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says it's easy to refuse something you were never offered

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

And only some of those who conclude that no one should have superpowers will be those who have refused them. In fact, most of them probably won't have had the chance. Those who did, however, would have a sort of moral authority.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says it's easy to refuse something you were never offered

 

And it's easy to pass legislation against forces that the law has little authority over. Example: Indiana House Bill #246 (ETA:) would have changed the legal value of pi to three. Also other numbers that weren't three.

 

Okay, Almost passed.

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Every time I read about this game concept I send myself into sniggering fits thinking up character concepts that involve the sentence, "There is no way I am wearing that in public!"

[Clonus]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I disagree. He lost patience and wanted results now. He's basically just a reform Nazi whose "problem" isn't the Jews, but anyone who isn't a "mutant", a distinction that defies definition apart from being a minority whose primary common trait is the ability to set off "mutant detectors".

 

Of course, I'm confused by Marvel's treatment of mutants in a world where they aren't the only possessors of superhuman traits. Why is Tigra not persecuted when the Beast is? They are both animalistic humans,

 

The Beast wasn't persecuted...when he was an Avenger. "Avenger" trumps "mutant".

 

but the only real difference between the two is that the Beast is a "mutant" and Tigra isn't. I know it's an allegory about prejudice of all sorts, , but the Marvel's implementation of "Mutants versus Normals" lumps all superheroes in with the humans except for the few who are designated as mutants. The logic behind what constitutes a mutant seems trivial to me compared to the similarities mutants share with other supers, so why are they persecuted and the rest get a pass?

 

Well first of all "the rest" don't get a pass. There are very few supers in the marvel universe who have not experienced some kind of public hostility and suspicion or government persecution (er...even before Civil War). However the actions of Magneto, Xavier, The Shadow King, Mystique, Trask and so on have made it rather worse. By calling themselves "homo superior", organizing all-mutant teams to whom nobody else can apply, building armies of giant-mutant-hunting robots, even though he has a mutant son, announcing on public television that a war between "human" and "mutant" is coming...honestly they've just been asking for it.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Regarding the Iconoclasts' date=' keep in mind that only some of those who refuse will conclude that no-one should have superpowers. If they don't have superpowers, just how do they intend to oppose supers? Legislation? Smear campaigns? Some will likely resort to as direct a form of opposition as they can muster. Others will prefer to operate covertly, as a terrorist group.[/quote']

 

I could see different responses from the Iconoclasts and the other anti-Icon groups. The Iconoclasts would come from many backgrounds and not all of them would be rabid anti-superhuman types. Some may refuse and wonder what the "real reason" is for Icons, conspiracy types. Some may have never received an offer of a costume and be jealous or afraid of those who were given a costume. Some may just hate and fear superhumans. They may all be considered Iconoclasts, but they would not be organized together. I could also see a revised version of Utility and Witchfinder as working with the Iconoclasts for their own reasons.

 

There are also reactions of other groups, who might feel threatened by superhumans in fancy costumes. I've been trying to see how feminists and groups like the NAACP might react to empowered humans. How would gun control types respond to a human capable of blowing up a mountain with a gesture?

[Orion]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

How would gun control types respond to a human capable of blowing up a mountain with a gesture?

 

I think they'd be in the lead trying to repress the use of powers. Anything that could be used as a weapon, they don't like. But more interesting, to me at least, is what would all the firearm advocates be saying? I own several, and while not a member of the NRA, I agree with many of their policies. I'd be all for letting people with powers go about their life. If they choose to use them publicly, I'd be okay with it - what they do is the important part, not the fact that are using them. However, many of my fellow gun nuts, and an even higher percentage of hunters, are quite conservative and religious. I think many in this group would be against the use of powers on religious reasons, and many more would be against them because the gun suddenly cannot defend you any more.

[FrankL]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

However, many of my fellow gun nuts, and an even higher percentage of hunters, are quite conservative and religious. I think many in this group would be against the use of powers on religious reasons...

 

I fall into the category of quite conservative and religious. I recognize I might be an anomaly with my thinking here,* but I would be fine with people using powers like that. Like most pieces of technology, the item itself is neutral as far as good/bad. It's how it is used that matters.

 

Specifically on using powers from Icons, I would say if you have it, then you have the responsibility to use it properly.

 

*Excepting the group of Christian Sci-fi writers I frequent a forum of. They had a thread recently about supers. They'd agree with my conclusion.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

One of the Icons in my campaign is a powered armor type with abilities much like the CU's Defender or Marvel's Iron Man, so the 2nd Amendment probably comes into play with her. In armor, she can punch a hole through a bank vault or fire plasma-based weaponry from her gauntlets. While the armor is powerful, she tends to make novice mistakes that cause damage. The best example of that is launching an area effect attack inside an office building that took out the floor she was on and the floors above and below (good damage roll on 18 meter radius AE).

 

I can only imagine the wails that would come from the gun control types when powered armor is involved, let alone supers in costumes that give them powers.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

One of the Icons in my campaign is a powered armor type with abilities much like the CU's Defender or Marvel's Iron Man, so the 2nd Amendment probably comes into play with her. In armor, she can punch a hole through a bank vault or fire plasma-based weaponry from her gauntlets. While the armor is powerful, she tends to make novice mistakes that cause damage. The best example of that is launching an area effect attack inside an office building that took out the floor she was on and the floors above and below (good damage roll on 18 meter radius AE).

 

I can only imagine the wails that would come from the gun control types when powered armor is involved, let alone supers in costumes that give them powers.

I think the gun control types might even be able to argue that they have precedent on their side. We have the right to bear arms, but not just any weapon we want. You're average joe can't just go out and buy a grenade, or RPG, or many other such items and the Icon costumes would be much more powerful than those type of things.

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

So has Icons ever deliberately or inadvertently tried to teach someone a lesson. I.e. Has a racist ever found himself in the alter ego of a black man, or a misogynist in the alter ego of a woman?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

the owner of ICONS had possibly been tempted to

[Lucius]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

So has Icons ever deliberately or inadvertently tried to teach someone a lesson. I.e. Has a racist ever found himself in the alter ego of a black man' date=' or a misogynist in the alter ego of a woman?[/quote']

 

Icons doesn't seem interested in preventing people from being villains. Such people would simply find the costume that fits (perhaps something in white with a pointed hood....) and then go out to get trashed by the heroes.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

superpalindromedary

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I have not really thought much about shapeshifting as part of the OIAID Limitation that is a campaign standard for getting a costume. I suppose it would be possible, but Icons is not designed as a source of "teachable moments" for characters. Think of it more as a library of costumes from superhumans who perished in the Secret Crisis, and those superhumans identities are being given to a new person. That person can choose to be a hero or a villain, and some heroes in the Icons Universe were villains during the Secret Crisis.

 

As time goes on, I am adding to the background of Icons. My initial idea was just that the costume shop existed, not how it came to be or what the source of the costumes was.

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I have not really thought much about shapeshifting as part of the OIAID Limitation that is a campaign standard for getting a costume. I suppose it would be possible, but Icons is not designed as a source of "teachable moments" for characters. Think of it more as a library of costumes from superhumans who perished in the Secret Crisis, and those superhumans identities are being given to a new person. That person can choose to be a hero or a villain, and some heroes in the Icons Universe were villains during the Secret Crisis.

 

As time goes on, I am adding to the background of Icons. My initial idea was just that the costume shop existed, not how it came to be or what the source of the costumes was.

 

I was just wondering if it was a buffet line or if it was a "the wand chooses the wizard" type scenario.