Leaping

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Leaping

 

Sure' date=' as long as things that affect Desolid exist.....[/quote']

 

What does that have to do with the debate at hand? There's also things that cannot be teleported through as well. So what?

[phookz]

Re: Leaping

 

I'm away from my books this week, but there are rules for this under Leaping in the APG - Acrobatics roll at +1 for first 'bounce' (I think), -1 for each successive, total distance may not exceed m in Leaping... that sort of thing.

 

I love the APG.

 

Ned

 

As ned-kogar already stated, bouncing through leaps are covered in APG p104. It handles single and multiple bounces, and what to do if you can't perceive the target when you start.

 

Rep for ned.

[Ice9]

Re: Leaping

 

What does that have to do with the debate at hand? There's also things that cannot be teleported through as well. So what?

It was an answer to this:

Assume a character with Desolidifcation. If we change Teleportation to Running in the example above would the results still be the same? If not why?

The point is simply that multiple Teleportation is not the same as Desolidification+Flying. If that's not what you were asking, maybe I misunderstood.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Leaping

 

It was an answer to this:The point is simply that multiple Teleportation is not the same as Desolidification+Flying. If that's not what you were asking' date=' maybe I misunderstood.[/quote']

 

It is functionally equivalent in a combat movement situation.

 

Nobody was talking about non-combat movement till you brought it up.

[Ice9]

Re: Leaping

 

Non-combat movement? I think we're having a communication problem here.

My point was that, in combat, Desolid+Flight is not the same as multiple Teleporting, because:

A) You are subject to Mental, Flash, and Desolid effects (that affect you while you're moving, such as Continuous AoE effects and readied actions).

You are not subject to things which block Teleportation.

C) You are not subject to readied attacks that don't affect Desolid, like a guard readying to shoot you as soon as you 'port into the room.

D) People can see your path, and you can see at every point along that path.

E) You have a velocity factor.

 

It's not a bad substitute, but it's not really the same thing.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Leaping

 

And the original reason I raised the desol example was to point out that Teleportation (the Power) is not necessarily the only or best mechanic to represent a multi-blink teleportation special effect.

Attacking the example isn't really addressing that argument.

 

But since you insist on arguing mechanics...

desol affected by mental. so is the teleporting character. Teleportation is not IPE by default.

Depending on the final power construction (# of triggered jumps and distance) it certainly could have a perceived path.

The desol power, if being used to represent part of a movement sfx, could certainly be limited to not provide defense.

The associated movement power (Flight) could certainly have the No Turn Mode Advantage as well.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Leaping

 

It is functionally equivalent in a combat movement situation.

 

Nobody was talking about non-combat movement till you brought it up.

Actually I brought up Non-Combat Leaping. It struck me as a neat interpretation of the dozens of small jumps versus the huge leap. I thought of it when the comparison was made between Superman/Hulk types and Spiderman/Wolverine types, and I personally think it's more elegant than trying to force a square Flight or Running into a round Leaping hole, so to speak. Might be worth a small Limitation on the Non-Combat Multiplier Adder, even. Can Spiderman leap tall buildings in a single bound? No, but he can probably leap, jump, and bounce a good long ways in one action. So why not simulate that with a simple decent-sized NCM (e.g. if he can Leap 10m normally and has a x8 NCM, that's 8-16 10m or 5m jumps)?

[Spence]

Re: Leaping

 

Lots o cool stuffage folks

 

This has gotten me jump-started and I appreciate the inputs.

 

One of the things I always liked about Hero. All the different ways you can do things.

[Lukeal]

Re: Leaping

 

Has anyone thought of just enabling a slightly new use for "casual STR"? It already let's you shrug aside or run through obstacles. Seems to me that casual str/leap (1/2 your normal leap from Strength only) would cover almost all these situations and simulate the parkour-ish... boing-boing-boing type running or rooftop running without making someone take something silly like flight. I mean, really, if hulk can smash through a door, spidey can hop over and around a few cars. All the characters people are talking about have enough inherent strength that most minor things wouldn't present an obstacle. Heck a 15-20 strength means I could clear 1" high obstacles or 2" long gaps (round up right?) which is pretty darn close to straight up parkour/free-running. So, yeah, everyone could try parkour-ish type stuff, but they don't go very far. You could have a character buy running with the "requires a parkour roll" to get more distance> That is he is skilled at parkour and moving like that. wouldn't change those gaps and distances so it would even model very close to realistic parkour. Seems like this would scale pretty easily too. You could even limit things like most people only get 1 or 2 0 phase uses of casual str/leap but someone who makes a parkour roll could get more.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Leaping

 

Indeed. Multiple leaps or bouncing can simply be a SFX of leaping. In fact, it could even be a function of of limited leaping such as Leaping with Requires Skill Roll (Acrobatics) or with the limitation "Requires objects to bounce from" meaning the character can't do the full inches of leaping in a single bound, but requires objects/surfaces to bounce from (using his normal STR-based leaping distance) to cover the full distance.

 

I also use several other options. One is utilizing Skill Levels with leaping with the same utility as using Skill Levels to bounce a ranged attack, but you "bounce" your leap. Every Skill Level spent in this way allows you to "bounce" off of and object or surface in the midst of your leap and implement a change in direction. However you still cannot go any farther than your total Leaping distance. I allow use of this type of leaping movement in combination with Move-by and Passing Strike.

 

Another is utilizing the Acrobatics Skill with Leaping. For every 2 points the roll was made by, the character can implement a "bounce" and change direction. Again, like utilizing Leaping Skill Levels, the character cannot exceed the full normal movement distance.

 

Some of the power constructs that I use for this actually violate HERO rules. I allow characters to add Autofire to Leaping and this allows them a number of leaps equal to the Autofire amount. However they have to make a to-hit roll to land in the target hex and the penalty is based on the number of leaps (like regular autofire) which makes these leaps quite inaccurate and easy to miss your target area. I also do not allow this to be couple with Non-combat leaping. However, unlike Bouncing using Skill Levels or Acrobatics, the character can use his full leaping distance multiple times to add up to a pretty large total distance.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Leaping

 

Seems to me that casual str/leap (1/2 your normal leap from Strength only) would cover almost all these situations and simulate the parkour-ish... boing-boing-boing type running or rooftop running without making someone take something silly like flight.

 

Well, in 6e, STR no longer affects a character's base Leap. I also don't think that Limited Flight is silly. It can provide a mechanically clean build for characters that bounce all over the place at will, even if they land on something at the end of each move.

[ayinde]

Re: Leaping

 

I don't know if it applies but I just call for dex checks for what you are describing but the hero can only use his casual jump wile he is running if you see him doing more extreme stunts (say jump throw the air artfully dodging airborne rocks and the like he would need to have the deflect power.) but I like games that use stats as much as possible if jack nimble paid 40 points on dex and matching skills he should get his moneys worth

[ghost-angel]

Re: Leaping

 

Holy thread resurrection...

 

I would consider the idea of buying Movement Skill Levels for Leaping, each SL allows the character to change directions assuming they have something to push off of. You could put restrictions, 1 Movement Skill Level per 45 (or 60) degree turn - so turning a corner in a hallway would require 2 Leaping Skill Levels.

 

If you're playing with the height of the arc of Leaping being 1/2 the Horizontal Distance (I thought it was in the Rules, but can't find it, so it may be a house rule), you could also allow Movement Skill Levels to reduce that arc.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Leaping

 

Holy thread resurrection...

 

I would consider the idea of buying Movement Skill Levels for Leaping, each SL allows the character to change directions assuming they have something to push off of. You could put restrictions, 1 Movement Skill Level per 45 (or 60) degree turn - so turning a corner in a hallway would require 2 Leaping Skill Levels.

 

If you're playing with the height of the arc of Leaping being 1/2 the Horizontal Distance (I thought it was in the Rules, but can't find it, so it may be a house rule), you could also allow Movement Skill Levels to reduce that arc.

1/2 the horizontal Leap is the max height for trying to jump straight up. It would seem off to me to reach your full Vertical Leap every time you Leap horizontally for distance.

 

I like the idea of using Movement Skill Levels.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Leaping

 

1/2 the horizontal Leap is the max height for trying to jump straight up. It would seem off to me to reach your full Vertical Leap every time you Leap horizontally for distance.

 

Oh, that I know.

 

It was the "how high do you go with a Horizontal Leap" - and I recalled that it was supposed to be the apex of the arc of a Horizontal Leap was 1/2 the distance (if your Leap was 6m the apex of the arc was 3m off the ground). Apparently not a rule, just something that's been used in games I've been in.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Leaping

 

d=(Vx)*t where t=time in the air and Vx=Horizontal Velocity

h=Vyt-(1/2)gt

 

t=2(Vy)/g where Vy=vertical velocity

 

Vx=V*cos(A) where V is the total Velocity and A is the angle on the leap

Vy=V*sin(A) where V is the total Velocity and A is the angle on the leap

 

If leaping at 45 degree angle

 

d=(V*1/sqrt(2))*2*(V*1/sqrt(2))/g = V^2/g

 

t=1/2d