Real Life into Hero.

[Alibear]

So I was at a shooting range last week shooting rifles and handguns and I got to wondering how to write it up in Hero.

 

Handgun on 25m range:

 

I was shooting a Colt Python (357 magnum with 6" barrell) our targets were 12" circles.

 

I was set and braced, basically had as much time as I wanted to fire. I hit the target twice with 5 bullets, 3 times in a row.

 

 

Now, I have never shot a handgun before so don't have a weapon fam and am trying to work out my OCV.

 

What is the dcv of a piece of foot wide paper at 25m? What is my OCV if I het the target 6 times from 15 shots?

 

That sounds like about an 8 or 9 or less to me?

 

 

Anyone want to do the Hero numbers?

[Tasha]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

The target isn't moving so it's DCV 0 Base plus the Shrinking on the Target and rings. So anywhere from DCV 4 - 8(4 is to hit the target, 8 to hit the bullsye) with RM of -4.

 

You were +2 RM for being Braced , +1 OCV for being braced. -3 for being unfamiliar with the weapon. You would have to be OCV 5 to hit the target with a 10- chance

 

Honestly, I don't think that it is that hard to become "familiar" to handguns if you are already familiar with rifles. So your first few shots might have been as someone who was unfamiliar with the weapon, but after you shot for awhile you were probably Familiar with handguns. So you could have started at OCV 3 and missed a bit till you familiarized yourself with the weapon, after which you were hitting the target 60% or more of the time.

 

I think that it might be safe to assume that grouped weapon familarities are easy to learn once you have the familarity with one of more weapon types in the group.

[Alibear]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

Never shot a rifle either before. I had a bout 2 minutes of tuiton before getting let lose with the python. I have no small arms weapon familiarities whatsoever.

 

My hand eye coordination isn't that bad, I've trained MArts on and off for 20 years so could see myself with a 4 ocv, 5 if I was being generous and the GM wasn't too strict.

[Talon]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

The real question is, did you create a "human sized hole" when you hit the target.

[Alibear]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

Little finger sized hole. Dum Dum rounds don't mess up paper as spectacularly as they do meat.

[Markdoc]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

Well, a 12" (30 cm) target has a DCV of 0 increased to 6 (due to size) and you get -4 for range (25 M). You also get a -3 for unfamiliar weapon, for a "total target number" of 13.

On the plus side, you were braced (+2 to offset range) set (+1 OCV) you were shooting a colt python, which gives you +1 OCV, and there's an undefined "environmental modifier": you are at a shooting range, nobody is shooting at you. I normally give that a +3 for "ideal conditions" giving you a total bonus of 7.

 

So if you hit 6 out of 15, that's 40% (roughly 9 or less) suggesting you have an OCV of 4: slightly better than average.

 

A lot of GM's don't use environmental modifiers or only give penalties - which seems a bit odd to me. Even if all things are equal, it's easier to hit a target if you have all the time in the world and no-one is shooting at you, but we don't usually drop a penalty on OCV for "in combat" - combat is assumed to be the default setting for use of OCV. So I give a bonus.

 

My dad, who had a lot of combat experience, and also trained cadets at the range after the war for many years, stated that you could reliably cut a soldier's effective range by 2/3rds to 3/4 if you were comparing shooting at the range with shooting in combat - so if you hit 2/5 at 25 meters at the range, you could reasonably be expected to hit nothing at 25 metres in combat and 2/5 at 6-8 metres (which based on real-life shooting figures, is actually pretty good).

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

Little finger sized hole. Dum Dum rounds don't mess up paper as spectacularly as they do meat.

 

Having shot lots of soft-nose bullets into living flesh, I can assure you that the "big hole" thing is an urban legend. A soft-nose 9mm hi-power round makes an entry hole in living flesh just big enough to force your finger in and an exit hole big enough to maybe force 2-3 fingers in. Plenty of blood and certainly rapidly lethal, but rifle and handgun bullets don't make big holes, nor do they, sorry to say, "knock people off their feet" any more than cars explode into gigantic balls of flames if they slide off the road.

 

That's hollywood stuff.

 

cheers, Mark

[Fearghus]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

so if you hit 2/5 at 25 meters at the range' date=' you could reasonably be expected to hit nothing at 25 metres in combat and 2/5 at 6-8 metres (which based on real-life shooting figures, is actually pretty good).[/quote']

 

No kidding! In the real life shoot out at the OK Corral (the shoot out that made Wyatt Earp famous) there were 9 people shooting 11 pistols, 2 rifles and a shot gun. All fire arms were emptied before the Clanton's ran. the corral was in a narrow ally between a hotel and a saloon (only about 30 feet wide, and 50 feet long 9m x 12m) and only 3 people were killed and 3 more wounded out of almost 70 shots fired in such a tight space. These were men that definitely had WF: Small Arms and fairly high OCVs being either professional law men or professional criminals. Granted their pistols were much less accurate (maybe even to the point of giving an OVC penalty, but still. 70 shots fired and only 3 kills!

[Egyptoid]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

sorry but the Hero Guns thing has been done to death.

try looking for a book called the Armory. by Kevin Dockery. save yourself grief.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

So, you had a 9- to hit.

 

Size Mod (12"/30cm): -6

Target DCV: 0

Range (25m): -4

Braced: +2 vs Range

Set: +1 OCV

Unfamiliarity Penalty: -3

 

This is what we know. Whether the pistol grants an OCV bonus is debatable.

 

I would argue that the Size Mod is halved. Size and Hit Location penalties are basically the same thing, and a stationary target is 1/2 Hit Location penalties, so I would modify that to -3.

 

This gives us an overall combat modifier total of -7 = -6/2 + -4 + 2 + 1 + -3

9- - -7 = 16-

16- - 11- = OCV 5

 

Now, whether that OCV 5 is purely you or +1 comes from the weapon is up to you.

 

I think the system has plenty of modifiers for working under ideal conditions and characters should receive bonuses for optimal conditions beyond the modifiers available. An example of this is all of the STR Lifting modifiers: the system assumes a maximum optimal lift and all modifiers reduce this. I say this after making a subjective call on interpreting Size Modifiers in the same manner as Hit Location modifiers, a call that seems consistent to me (and has worked in my games) and seems to map to the character experience in this case. In fact, is was my own real world evaluation of my own marksmanship performance that led me to that solution.

 

Could a +3 for optimal conditions achieve the same effect? Potentially. However, my evaluation was based on not just shooting at stationary targets, but pop-ups and timed firing exercises. Having to change magazines during a timed firing exercise is hardly optimal. Am I being shot at? No, but I don't have all the time in the world, especially on a pop-up range. If I make my PER roll, I got just enough time to Set (maybe).

 

I generally don't grant pistols OCV bonuses unless they are features like extra long barrels and such (so in this case +1 OCV is probably a good go... I'd be more inclined to give an additional +1 vs. Range - I don't like OCV bonuses from equipment). For rifles, I do include OCV and/or range modifiers, only if the shooter Sets - you have to take aim to take advantage of the rifle, otherwise the things which make it accurate contribute to its inaccuracy when not aimed (i.e. off by 1-2mm in the site picture generally means you miss).

[Alibear]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

Loads of nice thoughts, much what I thought myself.

 

One thing is clear; Grace Under Fire rules for normal people without combat training and actual experience in the field.

 

I just can't imagine having the cajones to 'set' and 'brace' when some buggers were opening up on me.

[Talon]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

In real-life, "not used to combat" is the norm...but in most RPGs, the opposite is true. I often use a "Noncombatant" Psychological Complication for NPCs who flinch and otherwise have a hard time acting in a fight (for example, Kaylee from Firefly).

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

In real-life' date=' "not used to combat" is the norm...but in most RPGs, the opposite is true. I often use a "Noncombatant" Psychological Complication for NPCs who flinch and otherwise have a hard time acting in a fight (for example, Kaylee from [u']Firefly[/u]).

 

I've modeled that with the variant Enraged rules from the APG. When it triggers, he immediately goes fully defensive and gets behind cover if possible.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

I think you should probably have an Overall Level or two just for being a dedicated HERO gamer.

[Alibear]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

I'll add it to my sheet.

[Markdoc]

Re: Real Life into Hero.

 

This is what we know. Whether the pistol grants an OCV bonus is debatable.

 

Fair point, but the model he was using is specifically listed in the rules as giving a +1. So I did. I also considered whether to have the size penalties for not moving, but didn't because in my game that only applies to targets that would normally have a DCV. You could still argue that it should apply ... I'm kind of ambivalent to that.

 

cheers, Mark