Steffen Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Hello! One of my players is playing a teleporting fire fighter and wants to have a power that helps him rescue people. The idea is to grab a person in need and instantly teleporting to safety. Furthermore this teleport should also work on unwilling targets as a “kidnap teleport”. The teleporting rules allow the teleporter to take a grabbed target with him, so I saw no reason to disallow this kind of teleport. I imagined it to look like this: Phase 1: Attack unwilling target with Grab Phase 2: Teleport with the grabbed target if it didn’t break free from the Grab in its own phase But the player does not want to wait for his next phase to teleport away because the endangered person might get hurt in the meantime or the grabbed opponent may free himself from the grab. That’s why he built a power with a trigger: Teleportation 8 m, Increased Mass 2x, Trigger (when PC has grabbed a target, activates as a Zero Phase Action, requires Zero Phase Action to reset, +1/2) (19 Active Points); Increased Endurance (x3 END); -1), Limited Power: Does not work in strong electric or magnetic field (-1/2). Real Cost: 8 points Is it legal to teleport as a Zero action after the Grab Attack? What about a Megascale teleport which is usually considered Noncombat Movement? If it’s legal, isn’t it too easy to kidnap an opponent considering that he can oppose the Grab Attack only with his casual strength? If it’s not legal, how would you build the desired power? Thank you for your comments and enlightening input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport I agree seems too cheap but I think you need the advantage "useable on others-useable as an attack" to do what you want In my( admittedly 5th edition) copy of the rules, it specifically says you need this advantage to do what you explained. However I notice in my 6th, basic rulebook it does say you can take along your friends and doesn't sem to have "usable on others". I sure hope its still in the main rulebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport This is a pretty clear case for Teleport, Useable either By Others or As Attack. If he uses 'by others', then the recipient of the power can teleport away on his own turn; if it's As Attack, the firefighter sends him away immediately. Since the target has to be conscious to activate the 'by others' version, which may not happen, I think As Attack is better. For further fun, you can buy it with the limitation 'only to floating location', then buy a floating location. Set the location it outside, near the paramedics, and mark it with a big X so people know not to stand there. You teleport the victim, and they can get instant emergency medical treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Part of the character's special effect (his powers are based on the characters shown in the movie "Jumper") is that he can only take people or things with him, he cannot send them away on their own. That's why I think UOO is not a fitting advantage as it excludes the character from the teleport. Anyway, my question may have been not clear enough. I'll try to reword it: Does the above power build allow for grabing a person and then teleporting away in the same phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Part of the character's special effect (his powers are based on the characters shown in the movie "Jumper") is that he can only take people or things with him, he cannot send them away on their own. That's why I think UOO is not a fitting advantage as it excludes the character from the teleport. Anyway, my question may have been not clear enough. I'll try to reword it: Does the above power build allow for grabing a person and then teleporting away in the same phase? In 5e rules this would require 2 separate Teleport builds. One for the controlling character and another for transporting the willing or unwilling passenger. The second part can be linked to the first. I will have to check my books tonight to see if this has changed in 6e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rentauri Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Part of the character's special effect (his powers are based on the characters shown in the movie "Jumper") is that he can only take people or things with him, he cannot send them away on their own. That's why I think UOO is not a fitting advantage as it excludes the character from the teleport. Anyway, my question may have been not clear enough. I'll try to reword it: Does the above power build allow for grabing a person and then teleporting away in the same phase? I think it could with the trigger but it seems a little off I think, plus it would suck if the guy forgot about the power and hugged his wife/girlfriend and the trigger went off. Champions Powers has a Speeder power that works on this principle. They run in grab the target run to another location drop the target off and finish the power by returning to the starting location. The power is a Teleport with Usable as an Attack but the SFX is works by him grabbing the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport so Superman has to buy Flight usable as an attack to carry off a person? the flash has to buy Running usable as an attack to carry off someone? didn't think so. so why are we treating teleport so differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport In 5e rules this would require 2 separate Teleport builds. One for the controlling character and another for transporting the willing or unwilling passenger. The second part can be linked to the first. I will have to check my books tonight to see if this has changed in 6e. In 6e it says "A character with Teleportation who Grabs a character cannot then Teleport and carry the Grabbed character with him unless he has enough Increased Mass to handle the extra weight and the GM permits this." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport I think it could with the trigger but it seems a little off I think' date=' plus it would suck if the guy forgot about the power and hugged his wife/girlfriend and the trigger went off. [/quote'] But the Trigger requires Zero Phase Action to reset so he could reset it only before he Grabs a person he intends to rescue or kidnap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport so Superman has to buy Flight usable as an attack to carry off a person? the flash has to buy Running usable as an attack to carry off someone? didn't think so. so why are we treating teleport so differently? You are mixing apples with oranges. Superman and Flash first have to make a grab vs. a target with their STR before they can carry them anywhere. Doing something similar via Teleportation that doesn't depend upon a successful grab manuever requires a UAA build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport You are mixing apples with oranges. Superman and Flash first have to make a grab vs. a target with their STR before they can carry them anywhere. Doing something similar via Teleportation that doesn't depend upon a successful grab manuever requires a UAA build. The power in question is specifically built to be triggered when a target has been Grabbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport but I'm still under the impression that (at least in 6e) you aren't allowed to 'grab and tport' a person like you can 'grab and fly' without using some UAA which I think is unfair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport The power in question is specifically built to be triggered when a target has been Grabbed. Sure, Trigger or UAA will work if you want this to occur before a target gets a free attempt to break the grab with casual STR. Basically, Trigger and UAA are turning the grab into a de facto "NND" which needs a defense defined for (other than having a high STR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Sure, Trigger or UAA will work if you want this to occur before a target gets a free attempt to break the grab with casual STR. Basically, Trigger and UAA are turning the grab into a de facto "NND" which needs a defense defined for (other than having a high STR). According to the rules as written you're right but for this power I consider the target only Grabbed when his attempt to break the Grab with casual STR did not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Hello! One of my players is playing a teleporting fire fighter and wants to have a power that helps him rescue people. The idea is to grab a person in need and instantly teleporting to safety. Furthermore this teleport should also work on unwilling targets as a “kidnap teleport”. The teleporting rules allow the teleporter to take a grabbed target with him, so I saw no reason to disallow this kind of teleport. I imagined it to look like this: Phase 1: Attack unwilling target with Grab Phase 2: Teleport with the grabbed target if it didn’t break free from the Grab in its own phase... Thank you for your comments and enlightening input. Multi-Attack. Make two attack roles in the same phase: 1st is the grab - 2nd is the Teleport. Simple n' Clean. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Part of the character's special effect (his powers are based on the characters shown in the movie "Jumper") is that he can only take people or things with him, he cannot send them away on their own. That's why I think UOO is not a fitting advantage as it excludes the character from the teleport. Anyway, my question may have been not clear enough. I'll try to reword it: Does the above power build allow for grabing a person and then teleporting away in the same phase? Usable Simultaneously would allow you to teleport with someone. Its the build I use for teleporters with this power. Its really not that complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport but I'm still under the impression that (at least in 6e) you aren't allowed to 'grab and tport' a person like you can 'grab and fly' without using some UAA which I think is unfair Perfectly allowable, assuming you have enough Mass in the Adder - technically it requires GM Permission, but your argument is (honestly) all that should be required to convince a GM this is well within the spirit and intent of the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport but I'm still under the impression that (at least in 6e) you aren't allowed to 'grab and tport' a person like you can 'grab and fly' without using some UAA which I think is unfair I disagree. With flight you have to grab them and use your STR to move them. With teleoprtation, You grab Uberman, avoid contesting his STR altogether and teleport him your full distance up and leave before you hit the ground etc. Using teleportation against others is a very powerful build. I must say I don't care for the new wrinkle in how this works if the default is you get to do this with just a little mass buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport I disagree. With flight you have to grab them and use your STR to move them. With teleoprtation' date=' You grab Uberman, avoid contesting his STR altogether and teleport him your full distance up and leave before you hit the ground etc. Using teleportation against others is a very powerful build. I must say I don't care for the new wrinkle in how this works if the default is you get to do this with just a little mass buy.[/quote'] Yes - but the flip side is Teleport can't be used in any Move By/Move Through Maneuvers. If you don't break out of the attackers STR you get Flown Away - if you don't break out of the Teleporter's STR you get Teleported Away - not only does the Teleporter have to buy enough STR to hold someone in a Grab through at least a Phase, they have to buy enough Mass to Teleport them. Fly-Grabber just needs the STR. It's a complete wash, almost in favor of the Flying Guy in points spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport One way to bend the balance in favour of teleport is to take advantage (rule-wise) of the fact that t-port is instantanious. idea 1: allow T-port to fully combine with other movement - so that if you have run 12" and t-port 30", you can in one full-move run 5" teleport 30" and contiinue to run 7" you can use the run - IN THAT SAME PHASE AS a Move-thru at the 12" (as you have run 12" that phase) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport Yes - but the flip side is Teleport can't be used in any Move By/Move Through Maneuvers. If you don't break out of the attackers STR you get Flown Away - if you don't break out of the Teleporter's STR you get Teleported Away - not only does the Teleporter have to buy enough STR to hold someone in a Grab through at least a Phase, they have to buy enough Mass to Teleport them. Fly-Grabber just needs the STR. It's a complete wash, almost in favor of the Flying Guy in points spent. No its not. Teleportation can be used so much more creatively and is much more versitle for these purposes. Remember, if a teleporter has the area scoped out barriers are no problem at all and he doesn't have to worry about being counter grabbed because he can teleport away. He doesn't have to cross the interventing space either. The flyer can't kidnap someone from a bunker ,for example, because he would have to fly through locked doors. The teleporter once he reaches him can easily escape with his captive. The teleporter can also teleport them both in harm's way and escape much easier than the flyer. Is anything preventing the teleporter from porting if he's grabbed? logicaly does't seem so to me. If grabbed port up max distance then port away before you hit. Or port max distance underwater then escape. Set up atrap in a sealed building. get grabbed port in with them, port out , set trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport some people have no problem flying through locked doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZZA Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport I'd be inclined to agree that Multi Attack is the best way to do this. That way the victim gets at least one chance to resist with full STR, which is really the only thing that I'd find objectionable about the original idea. Grab and Teleport becomes much like Grab and Throw or Grab and Whatever then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethernaut Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport How about this? Tele-Rescue - Teleport 10m x2 (10=>25=>18) - Usable as attack against Two Persons at a time (+1 1/4) - Cannot be used against people who can teleport on their own or are protected by force fields (-0) - Limitation: The second target must always be the character using this power (-1) - Both characters must teleport to same destination with their relative distance and position remaining the same before and after teleport (-½) - Effect: The character touches the person to be 'rescued' and teleports away with him. I don't have my books with me, so you better check the values of power advantages and limitations before applying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Re: Rescue/Kidnap Teleport You know....for something that happens all the freaking time in the comics(Nightcrawler anyone?), you'd think the main rulebook would have spelled this out better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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