Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

[Chryckan]

(Thought I'd start a thread for all my questions that's of a more general nature instead ofspamming the forum with a million different threads.)

 

Density Increase + Absorbtion

 

When playing around with a power that would increase Density Increase (DI) I found two unclear things.

 

The first is that the rules for DI state that when calculating the cost of adders or advantages for STR you need to add the STR bonus from DI before calculating the cost and adding it to the the base cost of STR. That's perfectly clear (at least in the book even if my explanation here isn't.)

 

But what happens if DI through an adjustment such as absorption power increases temporarily. Do you need to recalculate the cost for the STR adders too?

If you do, what happens if you for example have a +STR power in a multipower and the new cost increase the cost for the extra STR above the cost of the multipower reserve?

(I know it's unlikely you have STR in a multipower but it's just hypothetical anyway.)

 

 

The second thingy was that the the rules for DI states that if you bought any PD or ED with a harden/imperv advantage then you need to you need to buy the defence bonus from DI with the same advantage.

But if you for example bought both the PD and the ED with harden should you then add the advantage twice to DI or just once?

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

If you want to avoid the complication of extra STR that doesn't have the advantage on it, buy a naked advantage for the maximum value that the character's STR might reach. Say your character has Penetrating for his normal STR. If his Density Increase adds +15 STR and he has Absorbtion that could potentially give him another +10 STR, then buy a naked Penetrating cost for 25 STR.

 

As for Hardening extra PD/ED from DI, again, buy a naked advantage for the amount you want Hardened. Don't apply Hardened to DI itself.

[Chryckan]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

If you want to avoid the complication of extra STR that doesn't have the advantage on it, buy a naked advantage for the maximum value that the character's STR might reach. Say your character has Penetrating for his normal STR. If his Density Increase adds +15 STR and he has Absorbtion that could potentially give him another +10 STR, then buy a naked Penetrating cost for 25 STR.

 

As for Hardening extra PD/ED from DI, again, buy a naked advantage for the amount you want Hardened. Don't apply Hardened to DI itself.

 

 

That's smart but is it legal? I mean the str adder thing seems the be there for some game balance issue. This seems like a nice loophole around it.

 

 

As for harden that saves the chore of having to calculate on the go. But do I need to buy a naked advantage for PD and ED each or just one with their total value or just one at all?

[Lucius]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

That's smart but is it legal? I mean the str adder thing seems the be there for some game balance issue. This seems like a nice loophole around it.

 

Pretty sure that's legal. You can always post in Mr. Long's forum for an official ruling, or give us more details to judge. What kind of 'STR Adders' are you talking about? I know several useful Advantages for STR, but I am not sure about Adders.

 

As for harden that saves the chore of having to calculate on the go. But do I need to buy a naked advantage for PD and ED each or just one with their total value or just one at all?

 

For clarity's sake, I would suggest two seperate Naked Advantages, one to cover the highest PD you expect to have and one to cover the highest ED you expect to have.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks what Hero needs is an Easened Advantage

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

For clarity's sake' date=' I would suggest two seperate Naked Advantages, one to cover the highest PD you expect to have and one to cover the highest ED you expect to have.[/quote']

Actually, some advantages on STR and pretty much all on PE/ED are most likely plain advantages, not naked advantages (who are instant and cost endurance to use). Nothing in the rules prevents you from buying an advantage for Charactersitic points you do not always have (be they linked, Multipowerslots or comming from DI). As long as your advantage covers every point use with it, there is no prolbem at all.

[Chryckan]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Just reread the rules for Defensive powers and most of the defensive powers themselves and I'm totally confused.

 

The rules for advantages on pg. 147. says that to figure out the cost for an advantage you should take the total value of all PD or Ed defences including the freebie defence every character gets, similar to how you calculate the cost for naked advantages.

 

So a power armoured guy that buys 15 PD for his armour (as an OIF) and have Absorbtion that boost DI for X number of points would then to figure out the cost of his harden advantage would and his freebie PD cost to the cost of the 15 PD plus the maximum boostable points for DI to get the total cost of his defence than multiply it with the advantage before deducting the total cost to get the cost of of the advantage.

 

However, a bit further down the description for harden (and Impen) says that that a defence can't be partial hardened but that some defences can be harden while some aren't.

Yet again DI clearly states that if you have any advantage on PD or ED you should add the cost for the DI defence to the cost of any PD or ED advantages.

 

Then we have the advantage resistance that's booth an advantage and a power in its own right, which doesn't have add it's cost to any total PD or ED cost.

 

So if the guy buys 15 PD with resistance protection (again as an OIF) he then doesn't need to add his freebie PD or any points from possible DI boosts.

But why do you need to do it when you buy PD with harden even though if you buy a char as a power it should count as a power according to the rules.

Unless ofc you interpret the description for harden in such way and count the frebie PD as 1 separate defence from the harden PD and the PD boost as yet another defence separate from the other two.

 

My head hurts....

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

My head hurts....

 

And this is one of the big problems of HERO. It makes people's head hurt if you bring this kind of stuff to the game table.

 

As a GM I would be inclined to wave the need for all that stuff unless you had a team-mate that made it a usual tactic.

 

 

Doc

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Build external armor and forcefields as Resistant Protection (6E1 275).

Use the Resistant Advantage only for internal Armor/"tough skin".

 

They are drained as seperate Powers (since they are), so there is a relevant difference.

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Defensive Absortion: Don't mix that up with PD or ED. Defiensive Absorption has it's drawbacks. When you cannot absorb for whatever reason (maximum effect reached, maximum absorption per segment reached) it does not offers protection.

i.e. if you have 5 points and are hit by a 2,3 and 10 Body attack in the same segment the 10 Body attack is not affected by the defensive Absoprtion.

 

Instead of buying:

Absoprtion, Defensive Absorption (+1/2), Resistant (+1/2) / Absoprtion, Resistant Defensive Absoprtion (+1)

 

consider buying:

Absoprtion

plus

PD/ED, Resistant (+1/2) or Resistant Protection

Could link and/or unify both to get closer to the price of the above for a better protection.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

One of my favorite aspects of HERO is the character creation, so maybe I do this often enough that it seems straightforward to me. In my mind the secret to making it easier is to make the Advantage a separate line item rather than trying to roll it into another power. So lets take a guy with powered armor who has Density Increase and Absorption to STR, and he wants Hardened PD/ED and Armor Piercing STR that Requires a Skill Roll.

 

His normal STR is 20. His Density Increase can provide +15 STR. At maximum, his Absorption can provide +15 STR. His maximum STR is then 50. AP is a +¼ advantage, so 50 x 0.25 = 12.5 = 12 Active points for the AP advantage.

Say the Requires Skill Roll level is -½, so the real cost of the AP STR advantage is 12/1.5 = 8 real points.

 

Now lets look at his PD/ED. His base PD/ED is 2 and 2. His Armor provides +25 PD, +15 ED. His DI can increase his PD/ED by +3. His armor and the PD/ED from DI should be resistant, but all his PD/ED is Hardened.

So the total resistant PD/ED is 28 and 18 respectively, for a total of 46 points. Resistant is +½, so the cost to make 46 points resistant is 46 x 0.5 = 23 Active points.

If his DI is dependent on his OIF power armor, then the real cost is 23/1.5 = 15. If not then we have to go back a step and buy the resistant PD/ED from DI separately.

 

Now to Harden all his PD/ED. From above, his power armor provides a maximum of 46 points of defense. Hardened is +¼, so the active cost is 46 x 0.25 = 11.5 = 11. Since that is all through his suit, he gets the OIF on that so the real cost is 11/1.5 = 8.

His regular PD/ED total is 4. To Harden that is 4 x 0.25 = 1 point.

 

Personally I wouldn't harden his base PD/ED because it doesn't make sense to me since it is his power armor that provides the defense. When he gets hit with an AP attack, halve his base PD or ED but not the rest.

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

His normal STR is 20. His Density Increase can provide +15 STR. At maximum, his Absorption can provide +15 STR. His maximum STR is then 50. AP is a +¼ advantage, so 50 x 0.25 = 12.5 = 12 Active points for the AP advantage.

Say the Requires Skill Roll level is -½, so the real cost of the AP STR advantage is 12/1.5 = 8 real points.

Actually, I think the calculation would go:

50 * 1.25 = 62,5 (potentailly to high AP/DC wise)

62 / 1.5 = 41.

41 -50 (the STR he already paid for from various powers and pure STR charactersitic) would drop this to:

Spearhead Punch: Naked Armor Piercing (+1/4) Advantage for up to 50 STR. Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2). Real Cost: 1 (minimum cost for anyhting).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Nope. Spoon was right.

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Nope. Spoon was right.

Don't just throw something in the room. Please explain why

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Don't just throw something in the room. Please explain why

 

Well, his version is how the rules describe and yours is not. What else do you want me to say? I'm sure if you re-read the section on Naked Advantages you'll understand. They are pretty clear.

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Well' date=' his version is how the rules describe and yours is not. What else do you want me to say? I'm sure if you re-read the section on Naked Advantages you'll understand. They are pretty clear.[/quote']

Yes, they are epscially clear regarding single power naked advantages, of wich the AP to STR is one: "a naked Advantage bought to apply to a specific power (like the STR example above)" - 6E1 314

 

Perhaps you should read them again?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Perhaps you should read them again?

 

Christopher, you are very quick to tell others to respect posters, this was not a respectful response...

 

To make it worse, you are not correct. I see what you are doing but you have misapplied the rules (as far as I can see).

 

I think the disconnect comes due to the limitation. Far as I can see Ockham's Spoon applied the limitation only to the hardened - you have added it to the whole power. But you do not reckon the cost as if you applied it to the whole cost.

 

By the book - if you wanted a situation where the hardened applies to the whole power AND the limitation applies to the whole power then you are quite entitled to do the calculation as you did but it implies that, if you fail to make your attack armour piercing then the attack as a whole fails. Spoon's calculation implies that if the armour piercing fails then the attackworks as normal.

 

If the requires a skill roll applies only to the advantage then your cost calculation (62/1.5=41) is wrong - you have applied the limitation to the whole power. It would instead be ((50 + (12/1.5)) - 50 = 8.

 

Hmm. Same result as Spoon....

 

Would seem to me that you owe Bigbywolfe an apology.

 

Doc

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

I was a little short myself. My damn cell phone ate the longer response I had posted and I didn't feel like re-typing it. I think his calculation is still off even if you want to apply the limitation to the whole Power, not just the NA though. Will try to explain when I have an actual computer.

[Chryckan]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

And this is one of the big problems of HERO. It makes people's head hurt if you bring this kind of stuff to the game table.

 

As a GM I would be inclined to wave the need for all that stuff unless you had a team-mate that made it a usual tactic.

 

 

Doc

 

Actually I was watching the movie stronger where they have a machine who's armour gets stronger the higher the pressure is outside and I thought that would be a cool power for a power armour. It gets stronger the more punishment it takes.

Should be fairly simple to make I thought, just use absorbtion to boost DI. (Just boosting defence would been easier but not as fitting since that would technally made it better or tougher, not stronger.)

Then harden the normal armour for the suit because it's hard to pierce.

 

Then I read the rules for how to calculate cost and hey presto headache.

I didn't bring anything. This was ALL rulebook.

 

Defensive Absortion: Don't mix that up with PD or ED. Defiensive Absorption has it's drawbacks. When you cannot absorb for whatever reason (maximum effect reached, maximum absorption per segment reached) it does not offers protection.

i.e. if you have 5 points and are hit by a 2,3 and 10 Body attack in the same segment the 10 Body attack is not affected by the defensive Absoprtion.

 

Instead of buying:

Absoprtion, Defensive Absorption (+1/2), Resistant (+1/2) / Absoprtion, Resistant Defensive Absoprtion (+1)

 

consider buying:

Absoprtion

plus

PD/ED, Resistant (+1/2) or Resistant Protection

Could link and/or unify both to get closer to the price of the above for a better protection.

 

Ywah but I didn't want a defensive absorbtion I wanted the suite to get stronger from taking a beating.

 

One of my favorite aspects of HERO is the character creation, so maybe I do this often enough that it seems straightforward to me. In my mind the secret to making it easier is to make the Advantage a separate line item rather than trying to roll it into another power. So lets take a guy with powered armor who has Density Increase and Absorption to STR, and he wants Hardened PD/ED and Armor Piercing STR that Requires a Skill Roll.

 

His normal STR is 20. His Density Increase can provide +15 STR. At maximum, his Absorption can provide +15 STR. His maximum STR is then 50. AP is a +¼ advantage, so 50 x 0.25 = 12.5 = 12 Active points for the AP advantage.

Say the Requires Skill Roll level is -½, so the real cost of the AP STR advantage is 12/1.5 = 8 real points.

 

Now lets look at his PD/ED. His base PD/ED is 2 and 2. His Armor provides +25 PD, +15 ED. His DI can increase his PD/ED by +3. His armor and the PD/ED from DI should be resistant, but all his PD/ED is Hardened.

So the total resistant PD/ED is 28 and 18 respectively, for a total of 46 points. Resistant is +½, so the cost to make 46 points resistant is 46 x 0.5 = 23 Active points.

If his DI is dependent on his OIF power armor, then the real cost is 23/1.5 = 15. If not then we have to go back a step and buy the resistant PD/ED from DI separately.

 

Now to Harden all his PD/ED. From above, his power armor provides a maximum of 46 points of defense. Hardened is +¼, so the active cost is 46 x 0.25 = 11.5 = 11. Since that is all through his suit, he gets the OIF on that so the real cost is 11/1.5 = 8.

His regular PD/ED total is 4. To Harden that is 4 x 0.25 = 1 point.

 

Personally I wouldn't harden his base PD/ED because it doesn't make sense to me since it is his power armor that provides the defense. When he gets hit with an AP attack, halve his base PD or ED but not the rest.

 

I don't want to harden his base PD/ED either but the rules clearly states you need to add the base PD/ED when calculating the cost of the advantage.

 

So really to harden according to the book we need to multiply the +1/4 for harden with 50 points. or?

 

Anyway this makes things a bit clearer.

One thing I'm wondering about is that you're using the number of PD and ED points DI boost the defences with but the active points cost of DI to boost that is 12 points.

When doing this calculation should you use the points costs for the defence DI boost or the points cost for the DI level needed to do that boost?

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

I asked Steve Long:

My calculation is:

50 STR * 1.25 = 62,5 = 62 Active Points

62 AP / 1.5 = 41 1/3 = 41 Real Cost.

41 Real Cost (what the STR + Advantage and Limitation would cost) - 50 (the STR he already paid for/got for free/get's from varios powers) = -9

So it goes to the minimum cost of 1.

 

So I would write this down as:

Naked Armor Piercing Advantage for up to 50 Points of STR (12 AP), Requires a Roll. Real Cost: 1. Endurance Cost: 1.

 

Is that calculation right?

 

No. Here's what you do:

 

1. 50 x 1.25 = 62 (rounded down); 62 - 50 = 12 Active Point cost for the naked Advantage.

2. 12 / 1.5 = 8 = Real Cost of the naked Advantage.

I you had explained it that we, we would have avoided a lot of bad blood.

 

 

It gets stronger the more punishment it takes.

Should be fairly simple to make I thought, just use absorbtion to boost DI. (Just boosting defence would been easier but not as fitting since that would technally made it better or tougher, not stronger.)

Have you considered "Expanded Effect" (6E1 142) for this?

Density Increase makes the object more dense, wich has the side effect of making it tougher and stronger.

Directly boosting the PE/ED has the Side effect of it being halved (defensivre characteristics; see below for a solution) but might be the better way.

 

Let's try this with absoprtion to PD/ED/STR:

2 free PD/ED = 0 CP

+13 PD/+13 ED (eitehr as characteristic or power) = 26 CP

10 STR = 0 CP

+ 26 STR = 26 CP

6 Body Energy Absorption to STR, ED and PD, 5 Base Cost; Expanded Effect (+1; three Simultaniously); 12 AP; 12 Real Cost

6 Body Physical Absoprtion to STR, ED and PD, 5 Bas Cost; Expanded Effect (+1; three Simultaniously); 12 AP; 12 Real Cost

 

This allows to add up to 24 Character Points to STR and 12 CP to both PD and ED.

Maximum Values are thus:

STR: 50

ED: 27

PD: 27

 

Now you buy resistant (+1/2) and Impenetrabl (+1/4) for 27 ED and 27 PD as normal Advantage (not naked):

Resistant and Impenetrable for 27 ED and 27 PD: 54 Base Points * 1.75 = 94 AP. 94 AP - 54 (what he already piad for) = 40 Character Points.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

I asked Steve Long: [who said the cost was 8 points]

 

I you had explained it that we, we would have avoided a lot of bad blood.

 

So no "Sorry you were right" then?

 

Anyway. Christopher might be onto something. One of the problems with newcomers to HERO is trying to too closely map the effects they are trying to achieve with more complex mechanics than is absolutely necessary.

 

Have you thought about just buying what you want and limit it with (for example) not until defences breached by x STUN?

 

You could layer your defences - 20 to start, +5 when the defences have been breached once in the current combat, +5 when they have been breached twice, + 5 when they have been breached four times, +5 when they have been breached 8 times. Added defence persists for the combat (if less than that then you could add another limitation).

 

This way, in a fight the defences grow as you take more damage - at the end of a long fight your 20PD could end up as 40PD.

 

There is a bit of bureaucracy in following the hits you have taken but it is much simpler in mechanics terms.

 

 

Doc

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

All Steve did was restate what the rules already clearly state. You were doing it wrong. All you had to do was look at Spoon's post to see how to do it correctly.

 

EDIT: As for "a lot of bad blood" you seem to be the only one upset and you're the one who called someone out when the were doing it the right way in the first place. I already explained why my earlier post was abrupt.

[Chryckan]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

So no "Sorry you were right" then?

 

Anyway. Christopher might be onto something. One of the problems with newcomers to HERO is trying to too closely map the effects they are trying to achieve with more complex mechanics than is absolutely necessary.

 

Have you thought about just buying what you want and limit it with (for example) not until defences breached by x STUN?

 

You could layer your defences - 20 to start, +5 when the defences have been breached once in the current combat, +5 when they have been breached twice, + 5 when they have been breached four times, +5 when they have been breached 8 times. Added defence persists for the combat (if less than that then you could add another limitation).

 

This way, in a fight the defences grow as you take more damage - at the end of a long fight your 20PD could end up as 40PD.

 

There is a bit of bureaucracy in following the hits you have taken but it is much simpler in mechanics terms.

 

 

Doc

 

Yeah but that's only for defence and as I said if I only wanted I could just boost defence without going to the trouble of using DI.

 

However, I want the armour to become stronger in general. That is its defences gets stronger, it get more STR, it gets bigger and heavier, all which DI already does.

Besides absorption boosting DI is a simple mechanic too.

 

The real pain in the butt is when you need to start calculating the cost an PD or ED advantage when parts of the total PD or ED comes from an OIF (like power armour), some come from the characters innate defences and some as a boost from some adjustment power.

Especially, since the rules is rather unclear, not to mention contradictory within themselves.

 

For example if I buy rPD through the resistant protection power why don't I have to add those points to the total PD when calculating the cost of an advantage (like harden) when if I buy PD through as a Characteristic Power I for some reason have to add that to the total PD even though that is a separate power too. (Or for that matter why I have to add a character base PD to the total PD of a power armour when calculating the cost of an advantage for the armour.)

 

OR are we just over-complicating things?

 

Here is the rules text for Harden on pg. 147

 

A character's normal PD and ED, as well as any Defence Powers, can be Harden. A character must buy Harden for each of his Defences separately; a character who has Harden Power Defence doesn't automatically get Harden Resistant Protection, for example. A character can not have partially Harden defences. A given Defence must be all Hardened, or it's not Hardened at all. A character can, however, have some defences that are Hardened, and others that are not.

If we assume that the first paragraph on page 147 under the heading Advantages explains how to calculate the cost for an advantage for PD and ED ONLY WHEN BUYING IT FOR ANY PD AND ED YOU BUY AS A CHARACTERISTIC.

Then what the above quote states is that if you buy any PD as a power (such as a OIF power armour for example) with an advantage. Then you shouldn't add the two base PD points every character gets when calculating the cost for the advantage since they and the armour counts as two different defences.

 

It would even explain the DI rules for defence advantages since they would then be interpreted as only regarding the PD or ED for the defence power the DI boost.

 

 

 

Secondly; I'd still want to know that when calculating the of an advantage to PD or ED that's being boosted from DI if you should use the cost for the whole DI power or just the cost for the PD or Ed it boost.

For example 12pts DI boost PD with 3. So when calculating the cost should you use 12 points for the total DI power or just 3 points for the actual cost of the boost to defence?

 

 

Plz don't troll this thread.

 

 

Also, the film's name was the Core. Not stronger as my typo said.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

Secondly; I'd still want to know that when calculating the of an advantage to PD or ED that's being boosted from DI if you should use the cost for the whole DI power or just the cost for the PD or Ed it boost.

For example 12pts DI boost PD with 3. So when calculating the cost should you use 12 points for the total DI power or just 3 points for the actual cost of the boost to defence?

 

 

Plz don't troll this thread.

 

 

Also, the film's name was the Core. Not stronger as my typo said.

 

I'd say just the point value of the added Defenses, not the entire Density Increase Power.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

If we assume that the first paragraph on page 147 under the heading Advantages explains how to calculate the cost for an advantage for PD and ED ONLY WHEN BUYING IT FOR ANY PD AND ED YOU BUY AS A CHARACTERISTIC.

Then what the above quote states is that if you buy any PD as a power (such as a OIF power armour for example) with an advantage. Then you shouldn't add the two base PD points every character gets when calculating the cost for the advantage since they and the armour counts as two different defences.

 

It would even explain the DI rules for defence advantages since they would then be interpreted as only regarding the PD or ED for the defence power the DI boost.

 

 

 

Secondly; I'd still want to know that when calculating the of an advantage to PD or ED that's being boosted from DI if you should use the cost for the whole DI power or just the cost for the PD or Ed it boost.

For example 12pts DI boost PD with 3. So when calculating the cost should you use 12 points for the total DI power or just 3 points for the actual cost of the boost to defence?

 

I may have to go read the rulebook but I think you are complicating things more than they already are.

 

My take on what you have said and quoted is:

 

1 - any defence (PD, ED, Pow Def etc) has to be all hardened or not hardened at all.

2 - if you purchase a composite power like Density Increase which has a hardened defence, then, unless all of the rest of your PD is hardened, you do not gain the advantage of hardened for any of your PD.

3 - in any case, all PD can be added together for the purposes of calculating defence against physical attacks.

 

And I agree with Bigbywolfe - you would just use the 3 points.

 

Doc

[Christopher]

Re: Chryckan's general dumb questions thread....

 

So no "Sorry you were right" then?

As soon as you say "Sorry for posting something that easy to misunderstand as attack instead of waiting until I have the time to do the real, unambigous, usefull post".

Waiting until I have the time to do a proper post is what I try to do when the board eat's my posts.

 

All Steve did was restate what the rules already clearly state. You were doing it wrong. All you had to do was look at Spoon's post to see how to do it correctly.

He explained it instead of throwing something in the ring that is easy to misunderstand as attack.

 

Now to the problem at hand:

Anyway. Christopher might be onto something. One of the problems with newcomers to HERO is trying to too closely map the effects they are trying to achieve with more complex mechanics than is absolutely necessary.

 

Have you thought about just buying what you want and limit it with (for example) not until defences breached by x STUN?

 

You could layer your defences - 20 to start, +5 when the defences have been breached once in the current combat, +5 when they have been breached twice, + 5 when they have been breached four times, +5 when they have been breached 8 times. Added defence persists for the combat (if less than that then you could add another limitation).

What's the value of this Limitation in a Campaign we do not know and with defenses/DC Limits we do not know? Yes it would be easier, but it requires knowledge about the Campaign we do not have or experience on the Side of the Player/GM they do not have.

So it is better for beginners to take existing powers like Absorption instead making up all this stuff per hand.

 

Yeah but that's only for defence and as I said if I only wanted I could just boost defence without going to the trouble of using DI.

 

However, I want the armour to become stronger in general. That is its defences gets stronger, it get more STR, it gets bigger and heavier, all which DI already does.

Besides absorption boosting DI is a simple mechanic too.

As I see DI it is nothing but:

5 STR + 1 PD + 1 ED + (-2m KB) = 9 Base Cost with the "Cost Endurance to maintain (-1/2)" and "Wieght increase per level (-1/2)" Limitations for a Real Cost of 4/Level. The 4 Points are used as Base Points for the "Density Increase Power"

There are similar ways to deduce the costs for Mental Blast from a Blast with AVAD; Resistant Defenses is nothing but normal Defenses with Resistant (+1/2) Advantage written up as single power.

 

Unless you think he actually get's more massive (wich may cause problems with moving) when being hit, I would just boost the characteristics seperately with "Expanded Effect" on the Absoprtion. I wrote this one up, complete with the calculation:

"Absorption to PD/ED/STR:

2 free PD/ED = 0 CP

+13 PD/+13 ED = 26 CP

10 STR = 0 CP

+ 26 STR = 26 CP

6 Body Energy Absorption to STR, ED and PD, 5 Base Cost; Expanded Effect (+1; three Simultaniously); 12 AP; 12 Real Cost

6 Body Physical Absoprtion to STR, ED and PD, 5 Bas Cost; Expanded Effect (+1; three Simultaniously); 12 AP; 12 Real Cost

 

This allows to add up to 24 Character Points to STR and 12 CP to both PD and ED.

Maximum Values are thus:

STR: 50

ED: 27

PD: 27

 

Now you buy resistant (+1/2) and Impenetrabl (+1/4) for 27 ED and 27 PD as normal Advantage (not naked):

Resistant and Impenetrable for 27 ED and 27 PD: 54 Base Points * 1.75 = 94 AP. 94 AP - 54 (what he already piad for) = 40 Character Points."

Are there any problems with that writeup or something in the calculation you do not understand Chryckan, pleas ask.

 

For example if I buy rPD through the resistant protection power why don't I have to add those points to the total PD when calculating the cost of an advantage (like harden) when if I buy PD through as a Characteristic Power I for some reason have to add that to the total PD even though that is a separate power too. (Or for that matter why I have to add a character base PD to the total PD of a power armour when calculating the cost of an advantage for the armour.)

Simple:

Resistant Protection, Flash Defense, Mental Defense and Power Defense are Powers.

Your normal PD/ED is a (defensive) Characteristic and has nothing to do with those powers.

 

One specific set of defenses must be completely hardened. You could for example have natural Defenses (PD/ED), Armor (Resistant Protection) and a Forcefield (Resistant Protection that cost endurance) and could harden every one seperately (only the Force Field; or only PD and worn Armor). But every specific set of Defenses must be hardened completely (mostly because otherwise it would be hard to figure out your defenses in the middle of a fight).

 

Not all advantages must be applied to the entire Set. Resistant is one example and most other advantages to most other characteristics work that way too.

 

for PD and ED ONLY WHEN BUYING IT FOR ANY PD AND ED YOU BUY AS A CHARACTERISTIC.

You always buy normal PD/ED as Characteristic.

Of course you can buy Characteristics (all Characteristics, not only those two) as Powers. Otherwise you could not properly apply Limitations to them. But even Characteristics bought as Powers are still counted as Characteristics (they are drained as one single block with the stuff you buy normally).

Just buying 5 CP of STR or buying 5 CP of STR as Power is at no point a difference.