How do you have a life force outside of the body?

[dugfromthearth]

This appears mostly in fantasy, but could be high tech or something else.

 

The character has a body. It can be impaired or crippled through damage, can feel pain and be stunned. But it cannot be killed.

 

The actual life force is someplace else. Usually an orb, bone, or other small object.

 

Stabbing the character through the heart won't kill them, but breaking the thing that holds their lifeforce will. And it usually is fragile with only 1 body.

 

So how would you do this where they could not be killed but could be knocked unconcious, and how would you do it where they could not be knocked unconcious or killed.

[zornwil]

Duplication with Feedback Stun.

[Zed-F]

You can permanently kill a duplicate.

 

Two other possibilities, depending on how capable the object storing the soul is, and how complete the control the soul has over the body is:

1) make it a special effect/focus for regeneration + resurrection.

2) slavishly loyal summon.

[Yamo]

I would do Regeneration with Ressurrection and a Focus. Net effect is a character that just will not die until you get rid of that pesky Focus.

[altamaros]

Healing (regeneration) w/resurrection.

 

resurrection obliges you to define a possibility for your character to die no matter what : here it's : "delete the recipient of my soul".

 

You can also build the soul as a spirit (I.A.) and give it a lto of "affects real world" powers to simulate a body. it was done this way in the old Horror Hero source book for the 4th Edition.

 

other possibility is duplication : one duplicate of the character is a regular PC. the other is a computer; the computer has healing w/resurrection "only to heal duplicate" and eventually ranged, BOECV.

 

finally XD Travel; the character is permanently in another dimension and has clairsentience (transdimensional) to real world and TK transdimensional to real world to simulate the real body.

thus he can only be affected by attacks transdimensional (to soul dimension)

the thing that holds the life force becomes a susceptibility or a physical limitation.

 

there's probably other possibilities.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Zed-F

You can permanently kill a duplicate.

 

Two other possibilities, depending on how capable the object storing the soul is, and how complete the control the soul has over the body is:

1) make it a special effect/focus for regeneration + resurrection.

2) slavishly loyal summon.

 

I thought he wanted that, just not that its death caused death to the 'original". There is a regen from death as you mentioned. I thought of going Desol with some special qualifiers but that seemed too clunky.

[dugfromthearth]

"I would do Regeneration with Ressurrection and a Focus. Net effect is a character that just will not die until you get rid of that pesky Focus."

 

That seems the best way.

 

Would actually sell back all BODY and buy it all through the focus as well - if the focus is destroyed or lost he dies.

 

IIF for focus.

 

Do foci have any sort of range limitation?

 

Can I leave the focus in the castle vault and go off adventuring? potentially risky since someone could get to the vault and kill me while I am off someplace else.

[Yamo]

Can I leave the focus in the castle vault and go off adventuring? potentially risky since someone could get to the vault and kill me while I am off someplace else.

 

Personally, as a GM, as long as the character can be deprived of his Focus by enemies, circumstances, etc, it's still a valid Limitation whether or not that focus has to be carried around on his person or not.

 

An enemy snatching a magic sword out of your hand and an enemy sneaking into your lair and destroying your magic soul crystal have the same net effect in my opinion: Bye bye, Focus, bye bye, Power(s).

 

If you really don't want to use Focus that way, though, you probably don't have to. Resurrection requires that you specify a means by which it can be prevented. You can always just set "destroying the soul item" as the condition, effectively making the item itself a special effect of sorts instead of an actual Focus.

[austenandrews]

Yamo's idea is the most elegant. Admittedly I'm not sure how to cost the Limitation value for a Focus that you don't actually carry with you. That's certainly worth less of a point break. In fact I'm inclined to say it's not a Focus at all, but just a Limited Power. Not more than -1/2, probably more like -1/4.

 

Of course you also get the Physical Limitation "Dies when external soul is destroyed."

 

-AA

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by austenandrews

Yamo's idea is the most elegant. -AA

 

Actually, if you look at the post above Yamo's, I said exactly the same thing one post previously.

[Vondy]

1. Can be ko'd.

 

I would do this with regeneration and ressurection. A focus is only worth a lim if it can actually be taken away in play (has a potential negative impact on the character). If the character doesn't have to have it on them for the power to function its not really a focus - its a plot device. If the idea is that the players have to go find the object with the lifeforce and destroy it to stop the character I wouldn't bother with lims (plot device). If your set on "building it" out, however, then I would suggest a focus with the independent limitation (because if its destroyed the character is dead anyways, which may be a physical disadvantage).

 

2. Can't be KO'd

 

Same as above for the regeneration and ressurection, but the character also needs the automaton power "cannot be stunned/takes no stun"

 

I have a hero who is entombed in a vat of stasis inducing gel that is maintained by an alien computer (all in the care of a secret government project). A second vat produces clones from the original with his memories and personality imprinted in them. If a clone is killed a built in chip transmits a memory record to the system, which wakes up a standby clone with updated memories (though the memories are not always up to the minute).

 

I built the character with regeneration, life support, and whatnot, but purchased ressurection as a naked adder with the following limitations:

 

Extra Time: 5 Hours (to implant memories)

Recent memories (within a few hours of death) often sketchy

Ressurection occurs in different location (-0)

 

The last one has -0 because there are pros and cons to waking up somewhere else - SFX. Its not duplication because there's never more than one of him up at a given time, and its not a focus because the original is never in harms way (so no limitation).

[Rick]

Why not just by Regen-Resurrection, except for is said container is destroyed. No focus on the power but the SFX is the same. Then there would be no wierd how far does a focus reach questions.

 

If you used the Focus option, I'd say it's be an IIF.

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by Zed-F

Actually, if you look at the post above Yamo's, I said exactly the same thing one post previously.

 

I know, but you also suggested a slavishly loyal Summon of yourself, which was enough to make me skip on to Yamo's post.

 

-AA

[zornwil]

Got back to rereading this, I guess I misunderstood, I thought both entities could act independent of each other.

 

Dugfromearth, I have a few questions:

- are the lifeforce and the body ever combined?

- is the lifeforce capable of doing anything on its own?

 

Depending on the answers, you could just purchase BOD with an Invisible Power Effects advantage. Have the necessary visibility for BOD by whatever can affect/see this "life force" (including "must be attacked at castle miles away").

 

EDIT - the problem with resurrection/regen is that the character can still rapidly lose BOD from some attacks

[dugfromthearth]

the object is inanimate and can do nothing. it simply holds the character's life force so that they cannot be killed.

 

I don't like the idea of invisible body because 1 point of invisible body would make you unkillable. Then buy 1 point of invisible stun and you can't be knocked unconcious. Seems much too abusive.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth

the object is inanimate and can do nothing. it simply holds the character's life force so that they cannot be killed.

 

I don't like the idea of invisible body because 1 point of invisible body would make you unkillable. Then buy 1 point of invisible stun and you can't be knocked unconcious. Seems much too abusive.

 

But the IPE represents the fact he can't be killed except by someone visiting the actual "static" body. THAT is how you would define its weakness.

[dugfromthearth]

yes but it only costs 2pts

 

being unkillable for 2pts seems unbalanced

[zornwil]

Personally I'd require you purchase at least 10 BOD and any more you want to bolster derived characteristics.

 

I think it may be cheap but it makes the most sense - your BOD is somewhere else in fact. Of course if someone gets there you're wide open, so that may be more the balancing factor.

[austenandrews]

I'm lost. How does IPE on BODY make you unkillable?

 

-AA

[zornwil]

Originally posted by austenandrews

I'm lost. How does IPE on BODY make you unkillable?

 

-AA

 

Invisible to touch/sight/etc., so basically the BOD is never targetted when the acting character is. Where the real life force is you can see it and kill it but you have to have that "sight".

 

I'ts kind of a cheesy desol but I think it fits because it is just the BOD, not any other physical feedback is stopped.

[altamaros]

Originally posted by zornwil

Invisible to touch/sight/etc., so basically the BOD is never targetted when the acting character is. Where the real life force is you can see it and kill it but you have to have that "sight".

uh ?, it's one of the most abusive interpretations of the rules i've ever seen.

 

Besides, extending your interpretation :

having a IPE strength would make your blows in HTH combat impossible to dodge/block ?

(same thing for EGO in mental combat ?)

 

Besides, the character is still affected by AoE attacks or Does Boy mental attacks

 

BTW : to come back to the point :

Mike Surbrook did a write up for Yakumo Fujii a character from the manga/anime 3x3 eyes with simialr abilities (except that his life force is not in an object but in another people)

 

this is 4ed stuff but it can give you ideas :

link

 

i did myself a modified version of this character fo a pregenerated vigilante hero (imagine Mel Gibson in the "Lethal weapon" sequels but completly immortal)

 

i remember i used healing/regen/regrow limbs without limitations; damage reduction (body only), armor (body only) and autofire, triggered, fully indirect stretching (to move severed body parts)

i will find the excel character sheet for those interested

[zornwil]

Originally posted by altamaros

uh ?, it's one of the most abusive interpretations of the rules i've ever seen.

 

Isn't the character fairly abusive? Can't be hurt physically aside from STUN unless you send somebody miles away. I'm just suggesting a way to model it.

 

I don't see a difference really between buying BOD on a Focus and stashing the Focus somewhere. That's just as abusive and cheap. Actually that's cheaper, since IPE requires you to buy a series of senses for the invisibility.

 

Besides, extending your interpretation :

having a IPE strength would make your blows in HTH combat impossible to dodge/block ?

(same thing for EGO in mental combat ?)

 

What IPE strength? This character exerts STR where their functioning body is, not where their BOD ("life force") is.

 

Besides, the character is still affected by AoE attacks or Does Boy mental attacks

 

Why AoE? The BOD is not in the area at all. It appears to be to the untrained observer who does not understand displaced life forces, but is not there, right?

 

Re mental attacks, wouldn't that depend on the SFX? If the "does BOD" mental attack is reaching out to the mind and causing the mind to inflict damage on the BOD, wouldn't it fail because the mind cannot feedback that damage? Similarly, if the attack is using telekinesis to manipulate the BOD, wouldn't that also fail UNLESS the mentalist could scan and find the BOD however many miles away?

 

BTW : to come back to the point :

Mike Surbrook did a write up for Yakumo Fujii a character from the manga/anime 3x3 eyes with simialr abilities (except that his life force is not in an object but in another people)

 

this is 4ed stuff but it can give you ideas :

link

 

i did myself a modified version of this character fo a pregenerated vigilante hero (imagine Mel Gibson in the "Lethal weapon" sequels but completly immortal)

 

i remember i used healing/regen/regrow limbs without limitations; damage reduction (body only), armor (body only) and autofire, triggered, fully indirect stretching (to move severed body parts)

i will find the excel character sheet for those interested

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by zornwil

Invisible to touch/sight/etc., so basically the BOD is never targetted when the acting character is. Where the real life force is you can see it and kill it but you have to have that "sight".

 

Holy cow. Now that's certainly a unique interpretation.

 

-AA

[altamaros]

Originally posted by zornwil

Isn't the character fairly abusive? Can't be hurt physically aside from STUN unless you send somebody miles away. I'm just suggesting a way to model it.

 

i don't really think this kind of characters ("unkillable people") is abusive.

why ?

 

because there's nothing in this character that could not be solved with few tens of pounds of cement, a boat and a little trip on the sea ... (mafia style)

(alternatively, you could also use a building under construction and the PC will have to start a empathy with the plumbery)

[zornwil]

Originally posted by austenandrews

Holy cow. Now that's certainly a unique interpretation.

 

-AA

 

I think any way you do this you end up with something weird. Personally I'd still do a form of duplication (or some funky Desolid but I think that would be kludgier) as I wouldn't think the life force would be devoid of its own capabilities AND I would NOT allow the concept the way it's been stated in this thread, but that's just me/my game.

 

The concept as stated allows the life force to sit on a shelf someplace far removed and renders the character invulnerable to BOD damage but while affecting the world normally.

 

I did like the automoton thing proposed in this thread already, but that doesn't really fit as the automoton can still suffer BOD damage directly.

 

And IPE will cost a lot more than BOD on an OIF, I'm not sure why my idea is being called "too cheap" when an alternative "acceptable" idea is to put BOD on a Focus and stash the focus somewhere. This latter idea is even cheaper; my way is an Advantage on the BOD, the other way is a LIMITATION on it (even if lowered to -0). I don't buy that - the character has a huge advantage.

 

At the least, I can't understand why my method with BOD costing something like 4-8 points (not sure how many IPEs need to be stacked) per BOD is somehow more abusive than paying just less than 2 points per BOD for the same SFX.