Supreme Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 As some of you may have noticed, I'm working on a new character. He's my first 5th Ed. 350 point character (gasp). Nightfall The very, very short version of his origin is that Nightfall's family was killed by theives. This got the attention of Hermes, the god of theives, who agreed that his theives went too far. To absolve his guilt, Hermes gave him his earthly "power." In short, Nightfall is Hermes' avatar -- power-wise. Attitude-wise he's more modeled on Batman. So I've been working on his powers. By my reckoning, Hermes is the god of many, many things: martial arts, stealth, deception, tricks, athleticism, shepherds, musical instruments, language, businessmen, etc. To me this means that Hermes is the source of all these things, and thus Nightfall is closer to that source than any other (non-super) human can ever be. Thus, I think that Nightfall should have a lot of “super-skills†written up as powers with various limitations that have the special effect of being skills beyond the keen of mere mortals. I haven't figured out how to make all of these aspects into such “super-skills,†but this is what I have so far: Martial Arts: This was the one thing I was going to write up as actual skills. I'm going to make a reasonably concise, but comprehensive list of very generic maneuvers, then heap on the DCs and CSLs (all maneuvers will be 3 points with only the minimum of a +1 to OCV or DCV). I’m thinking that Nightfall should be a martial artist of the “Crouching Tiger†variety. Stealth: I was going to write this up as a form of invisibility. I invite everyone to make suggestions along these lines for limitations and sense groups. I’m particularly interested in making him invisible to tracking abilities, since Hermes was able to conceal his tracks from Apollo when he was only a day old. I was also thinking of some kind of security systems super-skill. Nightfall should be able to walk right into the Oval Office or the Pentagon any time he feels like it. Deception/Tricks: I didn't want to go too far with this one for various reasons. However, I opened another thread about "Hermetic Vision" which would allow Nightfall to see through illusions. I don't want to give him a blanket "sense deception" or "sense lies" sense because that would just drive my GM crazy. However, forms of Danger Sense might not be so bad. So any senses along these lines should be highly specific and limited. I’m also thinking about some kind of limited form of Images, the special effect of which would be super-human sleight of hand. Athleticism: well, this seems easy to me. Just take all stats, running, leaping, and swimming a notch or two past human limits. Of course Acrobatics comes into this as well. Any suggestions on super- forms of athleticism? Shepherds: I’m not sure I even want to go here at all. The last thing I want is a bunch of Cow-Man jokes. Musical Instruments: Hermes created virtually every significant musical instrument to Helenic culture, and could naturally play them as well (good enough to sway his fellow deities). Extrapolating that into a modern setting, he becomes the god of musical instruments. Any ideas on how to make a Universal Translator-type ability for musical instruments? Businessmen: Hermes is also the patron deity of businessmen (see the source of our cynicism?). Without delving into too many jokes about Enron and Worldcom, can anyone think of a good way to represent this other than buying scads of Wealth for Nightfall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Play Any Musical Instrument -- well, there's always the Cosmic Skill Pool: 5 pt Variable Power Pool + 2 pt Control Cost, Cosmic (+2), Only For Musical Skills (-2), letting him play any instrument imaginable at 9 + (Relevant Characteristic/5) +1. I've seen cases made for PS: Play Musical Instrument to be either PRE-based or DEX-based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 I've only got advice, for what it's worth. As you know, any limitation can be worked around in story terms. That is, the fact that the character is not the greatest lute player, and doesn't know all verses of Gilbert & Sullivan's HMS Pennifore can be explained by a simple, "You are an earthly vessel, simply unable to hold all of my collective knowledge. So I've given you that which you will need in your quest." Don't try to make him an every-man. You'll just be unhappy that you left out a thousand different skills and that they had to be low-level. Give him a few things that Hermes would think were "needed" in his fight against unworthy thieves. I've got three characters in my campaign who modeled themselves directly on characters from other sources. I finally had to tell the players, "There's no way you're going to get them exactly like the books/movies on this point level. Pick a few things and concentrate." ABILITIES... Ever seen the show ANGEL? I keep thinking of the Demon who can read people's minds but only while they are singing. I think DETECT: LIE is a good one for a god who can see through deception. High EGO or Mental Def. v. Mental Illusions only, or Dispel v. Images would be useful. And you could link them to a musical instrument focus and/or a RSR: Musicianship roll of some kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Stealth: Fully Invisible Naked Advantage on movement (Running, at least to take care of the tracking issue), and possibly on STR. Martial Arts: don’t forget Missile Deflection, at least at the muscle-powered missile level. also, Greek martial arts (like Pankration) tended to be rather brutal IIRC. Athletics: Swinging, maybe? Clinging as super-climbing? Reduced END on STR, Running, etc. would be good. Shepherding: Animal Handling at a reasonably high level should be good. maybe add some PRE limited to only affect animals, in case you want to stare down any bulls. Musicianship: Perfect Pitch! hey, if it’s good enough for Dr. D… Business: maybe more PRE, limited only for persuasion or commerce or the like. don’t forget Cramming – it’s perfect for any trickster-type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Re: Still Working on that New Character Originally posted by Supreme As some of you may have noticed, I'm working on a new character. He's my first 5th Ed. 350 point character (gasp). Nightfall So I've been working on his powers. By my reckoning, Hermes is the god of many, many things: martial arts, stealth, deception, tricks, athleticism, shepherds, musical instruments, language, businessmen, etc. Businessmen: Hermes is also the patron deity of businessmen (see the source of our cynicism?). Without delving into too many jokes about Enron and Worldcom, can anyone think of a good way to represent this other than buying scads of Wealth for Nightfall? Precog limited to Buisiness Trends? Don't forget a decent flower arranging skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost who Walks Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Mythologically, Hermes was also a trickster god (also god of speed, you missed). So there could be some side effects from him granting anyone powers. A nice one might be granting the power, but not the knowledge of how to use it. He could beat people up with his martial arts, but would know nothing of martial arts himself. See Jackie Chan in that Tuxcedo movie) Once of my favorite ways to do an amateur magician is buy using what I call "Conjuring". Just buy the images power, with a few limitations in it. Great for diversions/tricks, pretty useless in a fight. I tend to dislike invisible characters, unless that is their only power. It depends on how common enhanced sense are. A fun one is to buy invisibility to Mindscan and Clairsentiencs, this makes it virtually impossible for psionics/wizards to find him. Shepherds: Animal handler, or mindcontrol vs. animals. Both useful, actually, depending on the campaign. Clairsentience, specific animal only (a familiar) Music: I thought that was Apollo's gig? Businessman: Well, in my campaign, Hermes is an actual person. He used to be a railroad tycoon, before railroads went bust (in the US anyway). He now schemes for a way to regain his fortune. He also has a severe gambling problem. Greek gods were a very self destructive lot. So far as the campaign, something related to modern-day thievery would be good. Muggers and burgalars aren't really thieves from a professional thief point of view. Something more upscale, like banker (ever hear of compound interest), or Insurance executive (Obvious thievery here). Real Estate Speculator springs to mind. He was the god of business as I believe he was the god of currency/coinage. Something involving that (credit card company?) perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteryx Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 As far as stealth, don't forget Ground Gliding -- and when it comes to athletics, there's Breakfall too. -- Pteryx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Hmmm. HSR Almanac (2?) had powers listed for each skill. I once built a character with a VPP to use those powers and so have each skill. F'rex: The Omni-Musician skill? Images to sound (and maybe a sense or something..). Now he can play *anything*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by Ghost who Walks Music: I thought that was Apollo's gig? Supreme mentioned it in one of his earlier posts about this character. Hermes invented the lyre (and gave it as a gift to Apollo, as an "i'm sorry" for stealing his cattle), and in some myths the syrinx (pan-pipes) as well. Course Athena is also said to have invented the pipes (and threw them away because they made her cheeks puff out, only to be found by the unfortunate satyr Marsayas). And I think Pan, too, had an invented-the-syrinx myth, where the nymph Syrinx turned into reeds to escape him, so he cut them to make a music pipe of them. Forgot to mention earlier: as Hermes' athleticism was the model of male beauty in Greek culture, high COM seems required. edit to add: Hermes was also prayed to for Luck, particularly with money. Maybe Luck (with money) UBO, or Transform (give Unluck with money) would be fun. Hit the bad guys where it hurts: Their bank account. And as Hermes had quite a few lovers, some Seduction and Persuasion would be in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted October 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Heh. Now you guys are getting somewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Hmmm on that whole shepard thing...How about a Ranged MA with the Sling and Danger sense :Dangers to others in area....Was not Hermes also the inventor of medicene and had a gig controlling serpants and removing Venom? Say a MUlti power (50 to 60) U Healing:Simplified U Dispell: Venom,one at a time+1/4 U Healing:Repair limbs U Mind control (Animal minds) serpants only -1 Add in a RSR of some sort and the cost shold be good. I've always thought of Hermes as the God of "Cleverness" or intellect so lots of levels and maybe a batman style Superior intellect and planning Multi is in order....As far as MA Pankration+Wrestling is pretty darn effective with a few DCs or you caould go for a "Level based" MA such as +10 with Punch, Grab and Block...if you buy Overall levels you could buy fewer 3 pointers...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Oh...for the music thing how about a custom skill enhancer of "Performer" that aplies to any performance art such as play, sing or dance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted October 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by pinecone Hmmm on that whole shepard thing...How about a Ranged MA with the Sling and Danger sense :Dangers to others in area....Was not Hermes also the inventor of medicene and had a gig controlling serpants and removing Venom? Say a MUlti power (50 to 60) U Healing:Simplified U Dispell: Venom,one at a time+1/4 U Healing:Repair limbs U Mind control (Animal minds) serpants only -1 Add in a RSR of some sort and the cost shold be good. I've always thought of Hermes as the God of "Cleverness" or intellect so lots of levels and maybe a batman style Superior intellect and planning Multi is in order....As far as MA Pankration+Wrestling is pretty darn effective with a few DCs or you caould go for a "Level based" MA such as +10 with Punch, Grab and Block...if you buy Overall levels you could buy fewer 3 pointers...... Interesting bits about serpents and medicine. I can see doing some kind of healing super-skill, but the serpents is getting too out there. I see a lot of people talking about Pankration (or is it Prankaton?). The only reason why I'm not going with this is because it's uninteresting to me. I prefer to do a more modern extrapolation and just say Hermes is the god of martial arts and subsequently go with the custom "universal" MA package I worked up for him. Thanks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 I think the whole Healing+Serpants is based on the Caduceous (sp???) many achient cultures associate serpants and healing/immortality all the way back to sumer....I believe I read somewhere that Pankration was being "modernised" by a MA or MA group in greece......I'd probibly treat "modern" Pankration as a version of "Comando" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedifensor Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Start with a single aspect, and develop the other aspects over time. It may be difficult for Hermes to focus more than one aspect through a mortal frame. That'll help keep a tight character conception, and give you room to expand later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 The serpent-twined Cadeucus is actually a mis-conflation with the (single) serpent-twined staff of Aesculapius. Hermes' cadeucus was twined with ribbons, and occasinally wings at the top. IIRC, Hermes was given the cadeucus as symbol of his duties as herald or messenger of the gods. It was Aesculapius - son of Apollo - who was associated with medicine and serpents. Healing was more of Apollo's gig, and his son Aesculapius took this to the extent of raising someone from the dead, causing Zeus to strike him dead with the thunderbolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted October 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Lightray The serpent-twined Cadeucus is actually a mis-conflation with the (single) serpent-twined staff of Aesculapius. Hermes' cadeucus was twined with ribbons, and occasinally wings at the top. IIRC, Hermes was given the cadeucus as symbol of his duties as herald or messenger of the gods. It was Aesculapius - son of Apollo - who was associated with medicine and serpents. Healing was more of Apollo's gig, and his son Aesculapius took this to the extent of raising someone from the dead, causing Zeus to strike him dead with the thunderbolt. Load off my mind. Now I don't have to buy healing, or come up with a reason why I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted October 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Lots of good suggestions, guys, girls, and other humanoids. Keep 'em coming. At this point I'm trying to come up with ways to make powers that are really "super-skills" like the invisibility(or gliding)-as-stealth idea. Any ideas on how to do "super" versions of Acrobatics or Security Systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Desolid, Only For Passing Through Locked Doors/Windows and Security Beams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted October 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Chuckg Desolid, Only For Passing Through Locked Doors/Windows and Security Beams? That's a thought. What about detect security systems with discriminatory. Would that tell me how to bypass them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 heck, since I’ve already confirmed my wretched pedantry… Hermes was later syncreted with the Egyptian deity Thoth, and in later periods many of their attributes were intermingled. This, in turn, led to an alchemist using the nom-de-plum of “Hermes Trismegistus†(Hermes the Thrice-Great). This was the Hermes who is said to have written the Emerald Tablet, probably the basis for western (Hermetic) alchemy. Therein are found axioms like “What is Above is as is Below, what is Below is as is Above, so as to accomplish the wonders of the One Thing.†(note: also translated in a myriad of variations). So, when looking up Hermes, if you find references to (hermetic) alchemy, that’s actually Hermes Trismegistus. So, too, any associations with mercury (hydrargentum, the room-temperature liquid metal found in thermometers) – that also came out of the hermetic alchemy tradition. There is a lot of “lore†on Hermes and alchemy, but from a much later period than classical Greek mythology. I’d recommend ignoring it, for now. It might make a good basis for a later “radiation accidentâ€, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted October 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Interesting Post, Lightray. I've compiled a list of things that Hermes is the "god" of or strongly associated with. My sources are pantheon.org and encyclopedia.com. Included are my notes and how I plan to represent those aspects into Nightfall. Aspect.......................In or Out?..Power(s) Athletics.....................In............30-33 DEX, 8 SPD cheats & thieves..........In.............stealth: limited invisibility as super-stealth; security systems: desolid or detect cunning, shrewdness....In.............38 INT for 17- Int rolls dreams.......................???.............illusions only on the sleeping? eloquence, oratory......???.............??? foot-racing..................in..............lots of running gymnastics...................in..............??? literature.....................???.............??? luck............................???..............luck? Danger sense? martial arts...................IN!!!..........special MA package merchants, commerce....???............wealth? detect: business opportunity? messenger of the gods....in............Universal Translator music...........................in.............Universal Musician? poetry..........................??? psychopomp..................??? shepherds.....................??? travelers, roads..............???............running again? Perhaps some ability to leave images that guide people? weights, measures..........??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 psychopomp: Extra-D Move, with extra mass (leading someone), to limited dimensions. maybe limited as to where it can be used - in Greek myths there were a few caves and such that led to the Underworld, which would be a good start. this would be a good flavor power, not a main one. or, you could go with the psychopomp leading someone to their ultimate repose angle -- give him an exorcism-type ability, maybe built on Dispel or Transform, depending on how your GM would handle "unquiet ghosts". travelers, roads: try Detect: Correct Directions, maybe with Sense, Range, Discriminatory, Analyze. or just add Discriminatory to Bump of Direction. ("How do we find Destruga?" "I know the way! Follow me!") the rest of your "???" aspects seem good choices for some Skills. they're really not central enough to your character concept to spend many points on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Super Acrobatics up to crouching tiger levels.....Flight:Lim must land each phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adventus Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 According to my Encyclopedia of Gods, Hermes is the god of boundaries, guardian of graves and the patron diety of shepherds. Legends say he invented fire on his first day, the same day he stole the cattle from his brother Apollo. His symbol in most of his shrines was a phallic post to represent his guardianship of graves. Having read this, I would give him a forcewall EC. Villian, running from combat, comes up on a crosswalk line. Your Character: "You weren't thinking of running from what you did, are you?" Villian then runs into invisible forcewall at crosswalk line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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