VPP Frequency?

[Sean Waters]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

Cosmic, Comic or Bing Crosby VPPs are often justified by reference to the source material i.e. comics. The problem with that justification is that the reason Spiderman/Superman/Batman/Howard The Duck* can do so much stuff on rare occasions but hardly ever repeat these winning tactics is because they have a lot of different authors who often feel absolutely no urge to be true to the creative vision of the last person to write the character, or indeed their own body of work, if they think it makes for a cool ending to the comic.

 

That is not an excellent justification for using VPPs.

 

VPPs have a place in a toolkit: they allow you to do things that you could not otherwise do**, but I do not like to see them unless them really are justified***.

 

What?

 

 

 

*OK, maybe not that one

** Without, you know slight amendments to the XP rules, or a re-write of the power Skill.

*** i.e. I don't like to see them as a GM, but I think they are great as a player.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

I wonder why Variable Advantage never gets as many complaints?

[RexMundi]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

I wonder why Variable Advantage never gets as many complaints?

 

Because it doesn't say, Variable Power Pool. Like I said before, some people are just terrified of VPP's (And most of them are old grognards like me), and are perfectly happy to allow Anything else, because it doesn't scare them like VPP's do. It's like an OCD thing almost. Irrational, but don't dare re-arrange their desk even if the new arrangement works better faster cleaner and represents the character and it's "type" even better.....

 

~Rex

[Sean Waters]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

It is not so much **shiver** as **groan**. I have seen quite a few VPPs over the years and, in many cases they just seemed like a lazy way to accomplish the end rather than really being necessary to accomplish it. As Ndreare mentioned above, the 'concept' tends to be 'I want to be ultimate' which is not scary, and is not interesting.

 

There are exceptions (all the characters I have created with VPPs, for example...what?), but it is often the case that there are other ways to do it. Whilst there is nothing wrong with using a VPP - even if it is just laziness, or point shaving - I think that you generally wind up with a more interesting character if you have to define more closely what the character can do. Mind you I'm not a fan of 'Universal Attack MultiPower' type constructs either - again they often seem like a way to make the character 'ultimate' rather than 'interesting'.

 

Grouchy, aren't I?

[Christopher]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

I wonder why Variable Advantage never gets as many complaints?

It has much more Drawbacks. Even just having +1/2 values of advantages to chosoe from (enough for 0 END, 2x AP or Penetrating) already doubles the Endurance Cost/Active points and halfes how DC's add regardless of advantages used:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/88975-Variable-Advantage-and-DC-calculation

 

And things like "Variable Special Effect" have to be taken at thier "any Special Effect Value" (+1/2), tying up your entire Variable Advantage. (I think that woudl also apply to Affects Desoldifified).

 

A VPP can make any Power, with any Special Effect. And my guess is that most GM are more concerned about the non-combat uses than the comabt uses (those are balanced by thier skill roll and the time):

A VPP means you have to consider every power in the book when building adventures and stories. Even if the group has no Mentalist, the VPP user has access to Mind Controll/Telepathy (either a device, a spell or hypno pollen).

[Sean Waters]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

Variable advantage/Special effect is sort of subsumed into many VPPs anyway: if you have a 'gadget VPP' then all the things you create have to be gadgets but you could create a Flamethrower or an Ice Gun or a Crossbow. Moreover you can create a Crossbow with AP ammo or AVAD ammo or whatever you like. Also the active cost of powers with those advantages self-limits how devastating they can be.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

It is not so much **shiver** as **groan**. I have seen quite a few VPPs over the years and, in many cases they just seemed like a lazy way to accomplish the end rather than really being necessary to accomplish it. As Ndreare mentioned above, the 'concept' tends to be 'I want to be ultimate' which is not scary, and is not interesting.

 

There are exceptions (all the characters I have created with VPPs, for example...what?), but it is often the case that there are other ways to do it. Whilst there is nothing wrong with using a VPP - even if it is just laziness, or point shaving - I think that you generally wind up with a more interesting character if you have to define more closely what the character can do. Mind you I'm not a fan of 'Universal Attack MultiPower' type constructs either - again they often seem like a way to make the character 'ultimate' rather than 'interesting'.

 

I like VPP's with a defined SFX, and also with defined limitations. Don't just toss over a pool and control cost with "Magic" across the top. How does this Magic work? If you define it more, such as:

 

- it always as at least -1/2 of limitations drawn from Activation, Gestures, Incantations, Side Effects, and Concentrate

- it can't duplicate mental powers, which are the domain of psychics (and the schtick of the group's mentalist...)

- he has trouble affecting the human body (too many moving parts) so maybe he could Aid STR, but likely with a nasty side effect like bulking up and losing DEX

 

Don't just define what he CAN do, define what he CAN'T do as well.

 

And, of course, lots of pre-fab slots for an up front look at the flavour helps a lot as well.

[Enforcer84]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

 

Grouchy, aren't I?

 

And prolific.

[Sean Waters]

Re: VPP Frequency?

 

This is a pretty prolific page!