Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

I have this idea in my head for a low-powered supers character. His only super power is that he is able to fire off attacks that were used against him. He has no way of turning the mimicking off so he has no control over what power he currently has access to. He's only able to have one mimicked power at a time and he can't selectively keep one power over another. The mimicked power is only active for an hour or so after he's been hit with it.

 

I'm thinking a form of cosmic VPP wold fit, but I'm not sure. Either way I'd want to keep it low, say 40-50AP.

 

So, for example, he gets shot by a gun. It hurts, he doesn't "absorb" the power as a defense, he has to actually take damage so that his cells can mimic the attack. From this point on he is able to launch bullets from his hands that exactly mimic the original gun shot (within the limits of the VPP). If he isn't hit by another attack within the next hour this will be the attack he is stuck with until an hour passes from the time of the original wound.

 

Let's say, during the same combat, he gets hit with an icy entangle that "freezes him in place" (as opposed to forming a cage of some sort). For the next hour, or until he gets hit with another attack, he is able to launch the same icy entangle, but can no longer utilize the gun shot power.

 

So I'm wondering how I would go about building something like this?

[Tasha]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

It still sounds like a classic Mimic Pool. VPP only for powers that have been used against him.

[Starcloud]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Not a cosmic VPP. Cosmic implies both changing powers at will and changing powers instantly. Unless by cosmic you mean cosmic sfx.

"Only to mimic powers that affect him/only changes powers when successfully attacked by a power" is a pretty confining limitation. I think that'd qualify for a -1/2.

"Can only mimic one power at a time" is another. It is not actually built into the VPP, what if he gets hit by two different low AP attacks? Without this limitation, he could mimic them both just based on the point value. But because the AP of the VPP is low, I'd only put this at a -1/4.

"Mimiced power can only be accessed for an hour" is yet another. I'd put that value at about -1/2 too, if he gets into combat a reasonable amount of the time. If he doesn't, it's worth more of a limit, simply because the power will be useful less often.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

It still sounds like a classic Mimic Pool. VPP only for powers that have been used against him.

I have no idea what a classic Mimic Pool is. I'm not a supers player so I don't come across these kinds of power builds.

 

Not a cosmic VPP. Cosmic implies both changing powers at will and changing powers instantly. Unless by cosmic you mean cosmic sfx.

"Only to mimic powers that affect him/only changes powers when successfully attacked by a power" is a pretty confining limitation. I think that'd qualify for a -1/2.

"Can only mimic one power at a time" is another. It is not actually built into the VPP, what if he gets hit by two different low AP attacks? Without this limitation, he could mimic them both just based on the point value. But because the AP of the VPP is low, I'd only put this at a -1/4.

"Mimiced power can only be accessed for an hour" is yet another. I'd put that value at about -1/2 too, if he gets into combat a reasonable amount of the time. If he doesn't, it's worth more of a limit, simply because the power will be useful less often.

Like so?

 

 

Variable Power Pool (Mimicry Pool), 45 base + 45 control cost, (68 Active Points); (Only to mimic powers that affect him/only changes powers when successfully attacked by a power; -1/2), (Mimiced power can only be accessed for an hour; -1/2), (Can only mimic one power at a time; -1/4)

[Starcloud]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Mimic Single Power (63 Real Points): Variable Power Pool, 45 base + 45 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (112 Active Points); (Character has no control over when or how power changes; -1), (Cannot be more powerful than mimiced power; -1/2), (Mimiced power lost after one hour; -1/2), (Requires character to be affected by mimiced power; -1/2), (May only mimic one power at a time; -1/4)

 

Ruleswise, I looked again and for what you want it to do, it does have to be a 'cosmic' pool in the classic sense. It's not a standard mimic pool, though it borrows elements of it.

[Laundry Knight]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

It would sure suck if he got hit by a cream pie right before attacking the main villain.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

It would sure suck if he got hit by a cream pie right before attacking the main villain.

 

Depends on what the pie was built as.

[Christopher]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Mimic Single Power (63 Real Points): Variable Power Pool' date=' 45 base + 45 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (112 Active Points); (Character has no control over when or how power changes; -1), (Cannot be more powerful than mimiced power; -1/2), (Mimiced power lost after one hour; -1/2), (Requires character to be affected by mimiced power; -1/2), (May only mimic one power at a time; -1/4)[/quote']

That, but I would add "Only Attack powers" Limitation.

 

Question:

You noted something about him getting a defense against this attack as well. Should that be in the VPP as well? An alterantive would be allocateable defense with "only against Special Effect that did the last damage".

 

It would sure suck if he got hit by a cream pie right before attacking the main villain.

Not if the Cream Pie does no damage to him.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Mimic Single Power (63 Real Points): Variable Power Pool, 45 base + 45 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (112 Active Points); (Character has no control over when or how power changes; -1), (Cannot be more powerful than mimiced power; -1/2), (Mimiced power lost after one hour; -1/2), (Requires character to be affected by mimiced power; -1/2), (May only mimic one power at a time; -1/4)

 

Ruleswise, I looked again and for what you want it to do, it does have to be a 'cosmic' pool in the classic sense. It's not a standard mimic pool, though it borrows elements of it.

Awesome! Thank you.

 

That, but I would add "Only Attack powers" Limitation.

 

Question:

You noted something about him getting a defense against this attack as well. Should that be in the VPP as well? An alterantive would be allocateable defense with "only against Special Effect that did the last damage".

Yeah definitely want to add the "Only Attack Powers" Limitation, what would that be, -3/4?

 

As for the defense, the mention I made was that he doesn't have any defense, other than whatever equipment based armor he obtains, which would also be counter productive if it is too protective.

[Starcloud]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

"Only attack powers" isn't very limiting. 6e gives a value for it of -1/4.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Not a cosmic VPP. Cosmic implies both changing powers at will and changing powers instantly. Unless by cosmic you mean cosmic sfx.

"Only to mimic powers that affect him/only changes powers when successfully attacked by a power" is a pretty confining limitation. I think that'd qualify for a -1/2.

"Can only mimic one power at a time" is another. It is not actually built into the VPP, what if he gets hit by two different low AP attacks? Without this limitation, he could mimic them both just based on the point value. But because the AP of the VPP is low, I'd only put this at a -1/4.

"Mimiced power can only be accessed for an hour" is yet another. I'd put that value at about -1/2 too, if he gets into combat a reasonable amount of the time. If he doesn't, it's worth more of a limit, simply because the power will be useful less often.

 

Mimic Single Power (63 Real Points): Variable Power Pool' date=' 45 base + 45 control cost, [b']Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1)[/b] (112 Active Points); (Character has no control over when or how power changes; -1), (Cannot be more powerful than mimiced power; -1/2), (Mimiced power lost after one hour; -1/2), (Requires character to be affected by mimiced power; -1/2), (May only mimic one power at a time; -1/4)

 

Ruleswise, I looked again and for what you want it to do, it does have to be a 'cosmic' pool in the classic sense. It's not a standard mimic pool, though it borrows elements of it.

"Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1)" Those two Advantages together make what is generally refered to as a "Cosmic VPP" (often shortened in write-ups to "Cosmic +2), so despite the heavy Limitations needed to model what he wants, he was correct in calling it such.

[Tasha]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

"Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1)' date=' No Skill Roll Required (+1)" Those two Advantages together make what is generally refered to as a "Cosmic VPP" (often shortened in write-ups to "Cosmic +2), so despite the heavy Limitations needed to model what he wants, he was correct in calling it such.[/quote']

 

The difference is that a Cosmic VPP allows the Player to change the pool at his whim. A Mimic Pool only allows the powers to change to what the Mimic can either see or what they are attacked by.

 

That's why IMHO when one uses a blanket "You cant Use a VPP" or You cant use a Cosmic PP. You are throwing out some really neat concepts. I would still recommend that the Player write up some Generic powers for the pool. Because most things that a mimic will be attacked with will be nearly the same thing (ie 12d6 Blast, 6d6 Entangle, 12d6 Flash vs one sense etc) I would suggest doing that so as to make the Pool be less of a burden on both GM and other players. I say burden because for most people writing up powers on the fly takes time that can bog down play. I would allow a person with a mimic pool to use a lower power version of something they were hit with esp of said power wouldn't fit their pool ie Dr Destroyer fires his 16d6 mega beam attack at the mimic, Since said power wouldn't fit the mimic's pool they could fire back with a 12d6 Mega beam since that was the maximum size of the pool. Though I think that particular limit doesn't apply in 6e anymore.

 

I said classic because it's write up has been in every version of Champions that included VPP. From 6e1 pg 412

"Mimic Pool: This Power Pool mimics the powers of a target character. The Limitations on the Control Cost are: Requires Successful HTH Attack Roll (-½) (character must touch the target); VPP Mimics Targets’s Powers (-½) (the VPP “copies” the target’s powers, from the one with the highest Active Point total until it runs out of points), and Powers May Only Be As Powerful As Target’s Powers (-½) (the VPP cannot create a Flash 12d6 if the target’s power is only a Flash 6d6) (total Limitation -1½)."

[Christopher]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

The difference is that a Cosmic VPP allows the Player to change the pool at his whim. A Mimic Pool only allows the powers to change to what the Mimic can either see or what they are attacked by.

The problem is, that the VPP need to chance on itself. That means it can't rely on a Skill Roll and it tying up the users action doesn't makes sene either.

To work as intended a self-changing VPP needs Cosmic (+2).

 

Also those Mimik Writeupts requier active action on part of the posessor. So it can't work for thsi one.

[Christopher]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Perhaps we can do it with "almost cosmically":

Requires no Roll (+1), Trigger (One Condition [1/4]; Activation takes no time[+1/4]; no controll of personal trigger[-1/4]; automatically Resets after activation[+1/2]; +3/4)

Could add "trigger expires" instead of using the "one hour" Limitation.

But I am not certain how many of the other Limitations that encompases.

[Tasha]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

The problem is, that the VPP need to chance on itself. That means it can't rely on a Skill Roll and it tying up the users action doesn't makes sene either.

To work as intended a self-changing VPP needs Cosmic (+2).

 

Also those Mimic Write-ups require active action on part of the possessor. So it can't work for this one.

 

So yes, a Mimic Pool should have "Doesn't Require a Skill Roll" +1, but could get away with "Requires a Half Phase to Change" +1/2 instead of the "Requires a Zero Phase Action to Change" +1. I know that the book says that both the No Skill roll and the Zero Phase to change means Cosmic PP. For most people Cosmic Pools are those that have those Advantages, but no other limits, and no other list of powers required.

 

So the Limits should be "Requires being Hit by the Power" -1/2, Power may only be as powerful as Target's Power -1/2, VPP Mimics the attacks used against the hero(ine) -1/2.

It should have the Advantages "Doesn't Require a Skill Roll to Change" +1, It should also require either "Requires a Half Phase to change" +1/2 for a mimic that must spend a moment to integrate the new power, or "Requires a Zero Phase to Change" +1 for those mimics that don't need integration time.

 

Tasha

 

PS Firefox has an automated Spell Checker that underlines words it thinks may be misspelled. It's helped my spelling quite a lot. Now if it only could add in a Grammar Checker and I would be totally automated.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

I had an idea, but I'm not sure if it matches the intentions or not. What about making your basic attack power, say 12d6 EB, and attaching a variable special effect to it, sfx changed ncc? Does the attack have to match exactly what he was hit with, or just the same general type of attack?

[Christopher]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

I had an idea' date=' but I'm not sure if it matches the intentions or not. What about making your basic attack power, say 12d6 EB, and attaching a variable special effect to it, sfx changed ncc? Does the attack have to match exactly what he was hit with, or just the same general type of attack?[/quote']

Gives me an idea:

 

A Multipower with one Blast, Entagle, Drain, RKA and other attack Powers. Variable SFX on the Reserve. Maybe add variable Advantage for small things.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

I had an idea' date=' but I'm not sure if it matches the intentions or not. What about making your basic attack power, say 12d6 EB, and attaching a variable special effect to it, sfx changed ncc? Does the attack have to match exactly what he was hit with, or just the same general type of attack?[/quote']

It has to match the attack he is hit by, up to the limit of the VPP, he has no control over it at all.

 

The campaign I'm hoping to play this guy in, is a low-powered supers campaign, more in line with Kick Ass than with X-Men.

[Christopher]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

It has to match the attack he is hit by, up to the limit of the VPP, he has no control over it at all.

 

The campaign I'm hoping to play this guy in, is a low-powered supers campaign, more in line with Kick Ass than with X-Men.

All the more reason to built this as a Multipower. Here is what I meant:

25 60-Reserve Multipower, Variable Special Effect (any, but not at free choice; +1/4), automatically changes when affected by an attack. (-1); Only changes whn affected by a attack (-1)

6f 12d6 Blast

6f some 60 AP Entangle

6f 4d6 RKA

6f one 60 AP Drain, maybe expanded effect

 

Keep in mind that the advantage still affects Active Points for endurance and dispel calculation. Easiest way to make it cheaper is "All slots Variable Limitation".

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

That's a nice idea, but it doesn't account for attakcs with bigger Advantages like some AVAD/NND, or other odd attacks like mental powers, transforms, et cetera. It would probably work alright for some games, but if we try to model everything a typical power mimic can do I think a Multipower gets too bulky/cluttered/complicated and takes up a lot more room on the character sheet than the more elegant VPP.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

That's a nice idea' date=' but it doesn't account for attakcs with bigger Advantages like some AVAD/NND, or other odd attacks like mental powers, transforms, et cetera. It would probably work alright for some games, but if we try to model everything a typical power mimic can do I think a Multipower gets too bulky/cluttered/complicated and takes up a lot more room on the character sheet than the more elegant VPP.[/quote']

This is my opinion as well

[Christopher]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

This is my opinion as well

When you want to include every last attack power, including Transform, AVAD's, NND's and pwoers with UAA you can expect it to be really expensive, despite the lack of controll.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

And that's why a "Cosmic" VPP is so much more elegant. I don't ahve to build any powers ahead of time nor do I have to have them pre-built into the character sheet.

 

The GM hits me with an attack, I now have that attack. The GM doesn't hit me with an attack, I have an empty VPP.

 

This becomes even easier since I don't play face-to-face games anymore.

[Ice9]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

I think a VPP works well for this effect. You don't even need to worry about statting up common cases, because whatever power you get will already have stats - on the enemy's character sheet.

 

However, you might want to keep a chart of DCs by Advantage level at hand (i.e. your pool is 50 points, so you get 10 DCs base, or 8 at +1/4, or 6.5 at +1/2, or 5.5 at +3/4, or 5 at +1, and so forth), as it's quite possible the enemy power is >50 AP and you need to scale it down.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Can Only Attack With Powers That Attack Him

 

Luckily this will be online, so the GM just has to update my character sheet in HD or send me the build and I will.