Multiform

[Cassandra]

Re: Multiform

 

Bruce Wayne

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

18 DEX 24

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

18 INT 8

11 EGO 2

20 PRE 10

18 COM 4

8 PD 4

6 ED 2

4 SPD 12

8 REC 0

40 END 0

32 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 100 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-

2 AK: Gotham City 11-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Bureaucratics 13-

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

3 Contortionist 13-

3 Conversation 13-

3 High Society 13-

3 Lockpicking 13-

4 Martial Block

4 Martial Dodge

4 Martial Strike

3 Martial Throw

15 Money: Filthy Rich

5 Offensive Strike

3 Shadowing 13-

10 SL: Overall +1

3 Stealth 13-

Total Skills Cost: 80 Points

 

Cost Powers

8 ES: HRRP, IIF: Concealed Radio (-1/4)

60 Multiform: 4x 250 Points [batman, Batmobile, Batplane, and Batboat]

2 Running +1

Total Powers Cost: 70 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Alfred Pennyworth (Useful Normal) 8-

10 DNPC: Jim Gordon (Unaware Useful Normal) 8-

10 DNPC: Lucius Fox (Unaware Useful Normal) 8-

10 DNPC: Vicki Vale (Unaware Useful Normal) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total)

20 PsyL: Obsessed with Crimefighting (Very Common/Strong)

5 SocL: Famous [billionaire Playboy Philanthropist] (Occasionally/Minor)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

[Cassandra]

Re: Multiform

 

Stark was thrown off a building and transformed.

[Greywind]

Re: Multiform

 

He needed the bracelet and still had time to complain to Jarvis before it wrapped him up.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Multiform

 

Complaining is a 0 phase action

[Greywind]

Re: Multiform

 

Stark makes snark an art form.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Multiform

 

Stark was thrown off a building and transformed.

 

He needed the bracelet and still had time to complain to Jarvis before it wrapped him up.

 

Yes, but the fact that he was able to do so to me is the player saying "I didn't buy this is a Focus, so, you know - my new suit is ready and catches me, because I'm transforming."

 

Seriously, Stark in the movies is the perfect example of Not buying Power Armor through a Focus - he always has it when he needs it, even when it's battered, broken, and taken away from him, and he's tossed off a building - he has access to powered armor. That screams "I didn't buy this with a Focus Limitation."

[Greywind]

Re: Multiform

 

He's got a multiple focus advantage. Didn't you see his armor collection?

[esampson]

Re: Multiform

 

...I've got a non-multiform concept for a character with multiple heroic identities that I've been kicking around for a while' date=' but haven't built yet: The character would have shapeshift to a limited number of pre-set forms, and either a Multipower with a large pool, or a VPP that they could use to build sets of powers tied to a specific ID. Might be a good MO for a villain to mess with the authorities/heroes, too. "What's with all these new supervillains springing up all over town?"[/quote']

Just started working on a concept like this. The character is basically a mental imprint that downloads himself into various bodies (similar to one of the core concepts of Eclipse Phase).

 

I basically reduced most of his characteristics to 0 with the exception of metal characteristics, sold back all his senses, and sold back all his movement to represent him as a disembodied mind. I then purchased his skills as normal, gave him a megascale teleport to a fixed location with and involuntary trigger (when reduced to 0 body) to represent being forced to download back to his laboratory when a body was disabled. I gave him a 70 point VPP control with limitations similar to a Gadget Pool (had to go back to his lab, had to be appropriate technological powers, but he did not have to take focus limitations [though he could]). The remainder of his points were all placed into the VPP itself which would be used to buy powers, base stats, repurchase senses, etc.

 

Ok, on to Tony Stark. I don't think I'd do him as a multiform. He's probably one of those cases where I, as a GM, would break a rule and let you put one power framework into another so that he could have a gadget VPP to represent the different suits and then the different suits would have multipowers (since he can't just freely change his VPP this isn't quite so bad). Alternately you could argue he's just a boatload of points and makes his suits without multipowers since they only seem to have 3-4 attacks a piece in the movies (he's got considerably more in the comics, of course). I probably wouldn't build him as a multiform. As for his suitcase and changing I think that's more a special effect that it doesn't take him extra time to change into his suit of armor. It's not instant but it doesn't take him any longer than it takes Spiderman to duck into an alley and pull off his shirt.

 

The only reason I would look at giving him OIAID instead of a focus would be because in the comics it is traditionally very, very difficult to take his armor away. Even when he is knocked unconscious people aren't typically able to take away his armor in one turn due to the security features. There have been some exceptions in the past such as the Molecule Man, but those tend to be rare exceptions rather than the rule.

[Cassandra]

Re: Multiform

 

In Stark's case I agree a OIHID might make more sense for his Multiform.

 

It's cost more.

[Cassandra]

Re: Multiform

 

Batman

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

18 DEX 24

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

18 INT 8

11 EGO 2

20 PRE 10

18 COM 4

8 PD 4

6 ED 2

4 SPD 12

8 REC 0

40 END 0

32 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 100 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-

2 AK: Gotham City 11-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Bugging 13-

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

3 Contortionist 13-

3 Criminology 13-

3 Deduction 13-

3 Disguise 13-

3 Fast Draw 13-

3 Interrogation 13-

3 Lockpicking 13-

4 Martial Block

4 Martial Dodge

4 Martial Strike

3 Martial Throw

5 Offensive Strike

3 Security Systems 13-

3 Shadowing 13-

10 SL: Overall +1

3 Stealth 13-

3 Streetwise 13-

Total Skills Cost: 80 Points

 

Cost Powers

10 Armor +5 rPD +5 rED, OIF: Costume (-1/2)

20 Multipower (30 Points) OIF: Weapons Belt (-1/2)

1 u) Darkness [sight] AE 2"r, Personal Immunity (+1/4), [12c/Duration 1 Turn] (+1/4), OAF: Smoke Bombs (-1)

1 u) EB 6d6, [16c] (-0), OAF: Batarangs (-1)

1 u) EB 3d6, NND [LS: Self Contained] (+1), OAF: Sleep Gas (-1)

1 u) Entangle 3d6 DEF 3, [16c] (-0), OAF: Bolas (-1)

1 u) Stretching 4", No END (+1/2), OAF: Line Gun (-1)

3 ES: Nightvision, OIF: Cowl (-1/2)

7 ES: RPT, OIF: Cowl (-1/2)

3 Flash Defense [sight] 5 Points, OIF: Cowl (-1/2)

2 Running +1"

20 VPP 10 Points, Cosmic (+2), OIF (-1/2)

Total Powers Cost: 70 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Alfred Pennyworth (Useful Normal) 8-

10 DNPC: Jim Gordon (Unaware Useful Normal) 8-

5 Hunted: Catwoman (As Powerful/Mild) 8-

10 Hunted: Joker (As Powerful) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total)

20 PsyL: Obsessed with Crimefighting (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [bruce Wayne] (Occasionally/Major)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Batman for Bruce Wayne Multiform. VPP for Swing Line, Glider Cape, Kryptonite, Freeze Pellets, etc..

[Beazulbob]

Re: Multiform

 

I have a similar character, though I bought it differently. The character body jumps, leaving his the prior body behind as a bulky focus. I did this as multiform and megascale teleport. If it is time to leave a body, he has to take a move action to teleport and is stuck going to where the body he desires is. In game, when I'm expecting stuff to happen, I have to ship my bodies around so they are in the same county as where I am. The one exception is the satallite man, who is hidden inside a satallite and acts as a central point of reference for all the bodies. The one weakness to the build is the damage stays with him. The teleport has a trigger, but I lack the points to buy healing on a trigger so that the new body is fresh.

[Cassandra]

Re: Multiform

 

Batmobile

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

18 DEX 24

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

18 INT 8

11 EGO 2

20 PRE 10

18 COM 4

8 PD 4

6 ED 2

4 SPD 12

8 REC 0

40 END 0

32 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 100 Points

 

Cost Skills

2 AK: Gotham City 11-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Bump of Direction

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

3 Navigation [Ground] 13-

3 Systems Operation 13-

Total Skills Cost: 20 Points

 

Cost Powers

22 Armor +10 rPD +10 rED, Use Simultaneously (+1/2), OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

11 DEX +18, NFC (-1/2), Use Simultaneously (+1/2), OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

12 EC [batmobile]-15 Points, OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

12 1) EB 10d6, [16c] (-0)

12 2) Running +5", 8x NCM, No END Persistent on Running 10" (+1)

12 3) STR +15, No END Persistent on 35 STR (+1)

19 ES: HRRP, 360 Degree Spatrial Awareness, OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

3 Flash Defense [sight] 5 Points, Use Simultaneously (+1/2), OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

9 HA +3d6, HTH Attack (-1/2), No END (+1/2), OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

4 KNB Resistance -3", Use Simultaneously (+1/2), OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

14 LS: High Pressure, High Radiation, Intense Cold, Intense Heat, Low Pressure/Vacuum, Self Contained, Use Simultaneously (+1/2), OIF[bulky]: Batmobile (-1)

Total Powers Cost: 130 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Alfred Pennyworth (Useful Normal) 8-

10 DNPC: Jim Gordon (As Powerful) 8-

5 Hunted: Catwoman (As Powerful/Mild) 8-

10 Hunted: Joker (As Powerful) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total)

20 PsyL: Obsessed with Crimefighting (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [bruce Wayne] (Occasionally/Major)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

This Batmobile has an Autopilot (No END Persistent Running), and protection for one passenger (Armor, Flash Defense, DEX +6, and LS). The DEX Bonus gives the Batmobile a OCV 8/DCV 4.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Multiform

 

I am not a big fan of Multiform for Player Characters because of the major headache it creates with spending XP among all the forms.

 

With that said, when combined with a VPP it provides one of the few affordable methods to build otherwise seemingly impossible characters like DC's Amazo and Parasite as well as Marvel's Rogue.

[Cassandra]

Re: Multiform

 

Batman is the True form for the Bruce Wayne Multiform.

[esampson]

Re: Multiform

 

I am not a big fan of Multiform for Player Characters because of the major headache it creates with spending XP among all the forms.

 

With that said, when combined with a VPP it provides one of the few affordable methods to build otherwise seemingly impossible characters like DC's Amazo and Parasite as well as Marvel's Rogue.

Why would you need Multiform with that? I always envisioned them more as large VPPs but never thought that they would need Multiform.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Multiform

 

Why would you need Multiform with that? I always envisioned them more as large VPPs but never thought that they would need Multiform.

 

If the character that is being copied has a Multipower then the rules against nesting a framework inside another framework come into play. Using Multiform to mimic the target character's abilities sidesteps that issue. See the link to Parasite and his Now I Have Your Powers! VPP for an example of this.

[esampson]

Re: Multiform

 

One could probably build them to avoid the nested Multipower issue by letting them use their VPP to 'replace' the multipower (i.e. Parasite steals someone's powers. He has restrictions as to how he can switch around his VPP to simulate the target's powers but within those restrictions he's free to employ any slot in their multipower at any time as long as he has the points available).

[esampson]

Re: Multiform

 

Oh. I see what you're doing there. Yeah, as I GM I'd probably beat you for trying to end run around the rules by sticking a Multiform within the VPP and then a Multipower within the Multiform.

 

On the other hand I'm inclined to allow people to put Multipowers within VPPs if there's a reasonable amount of control to them (build a rifle that has a Multipower to simulate regular bullets, armor piercing, hollow points, etc. and you want to buy it with your Gadget Pool VPP? Probably ok. Pick up a Multipower because you're mimicing someone else's powers and they have a Multipower? All right.) I try to be less Rules as Written and more Rules as Intended (and in the case of nested Multipowers I think the intent is to stop bigger abuses than those, but that's my opinion and your mileage may vary).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Multiform

 

Oh. I see what you're doing there. Yeah, as I GM I'd probably beat you for trying to end run around the rules by sticking a Multiform within the VPP and then a Multipower within the Multiform.

 

On the other hand I'm inclined to allow people to put Multipowers within VPPs if there's a reasonable amount of control to them (build a rifle that has a Multipower to simulate regular bullets, armor piercing, hollow points, etc. and you want to buy it with your Gadget Pool VPP? Probably ok. Pick up a Multipower because you're mimicing someone else's powers and they have a Multipower? All right.) I try to be less Rules as Written and more Rules as Intended (and in the case of nested Multipowers I think the intent is to stop bigger abuses than those, but that's my opinion and your mileage may vary).

 

Please see this post from a recent VPP discussion thread.

 

It points out the reasons for disallowing a Multipower within a VPP. I can provide a converse example as well. Create a Mulitpower with a finite number of slots. Create 1 Slot as a self contained VPP whose total cost does not exceed the active cost of the Multipower reserve.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Multiform

 

VPP + Multiform is an extremely powerful combination. I probably wouldn't allow it for a PC either. My incomplete example was of a very powerrul DCU Villain.

[assault]

Re: Multiform

 

If you are modelling characters like Amazo, the Parasite or Rogue as NPCs, it's easier just to use a multiform to represent what they are like when they are mimicking/draining a particular target.

 

So, Amazo has forms representing each of the JLA members he is mimicking. The Parasite has forms representing what he is like when he has drained Superman's powers and when he hasn't.

 

Rogue has forms for each member of the X-Men she is likely to drain. Ms Marvel too, if the latter turns up in the game regularly. If Rogue is in heroine mode, each villain instead, or as well.

 

Obviously doing things this way tends to give all or nothing results, but you could work around that if you want.

 

Building a character using a VPP is only necessary if it is supposed to be a PC, or if it is intended to be published and used with unknown characters.

 

Buying lots of different multiforms is cheap, once you've paid for the base power.

[esampson]

Re: Multiform

 

Please see this post from a recent VPP discussion thread.

 

It points out the reasons for disallowing a Multipower within a VPP. I can provide a converse example as well. Create a Mulitpower with a finite number of slots. Create 1 Slot as a self contained VPP whose total cost does not exceed the active cost of the Multipower reserve.

Not sure why you provided that link. As I said I would probably only allow it in certain circumstances such as a gun with multiple settings (your example of applying variable special effect doesn't always work since I might want to include an energy blast and RKA).

 

On the other hand I wouldn't allow you to create a larger 'gadget' multipower and place all your VPP gadgets into that. I would also probably smack you down if you tried to use your VPP to build the Amazing OmniGadget that shoots, flashes, stabs, slices, dices, and even makes Julien fries (whatever the Hell those are). All of which seems to mirror Steve Long's feelings.

 

Does it require me to make a judgement call as a GM? Sure, but then I have to do that all the time anyway. Otherwise as soon as someone notices some new way to break game balance the whole game goes down the tubes.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Multiform

 

Julien fries (whatever the Hell those are)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julienning

 

Essentially, a type of cut that is very long and thin (also known as 'shoestring').

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Multiform

 

Not sure why you provided that link.

 

To possibly educate open minded readers of this thread about the reasons the original creators of VPP's (not Steve Long btw) instituted the no framework-within-framework rule.

[esampson]

Re: Multiform

 

Yes, but as I said I wouldn't the Multipower within the VPP in all cases.

 

In fact I probably wouldn't allow it in most cases, and pretty much for the reasons shown in that thread, but there are going to be some things that will probably be modeled best by allowing the Multipower (although as I think about it I just realized there is a solution that accomplishes basically the exact same thing except it makes the control writeup a huge headache. I'll write it up tomorrow in a new thread).

 

If I was going to take a RAW stance against allowing a Multipower within a VPP I wouldn't let you take the Multipower as part of a Multiform within the VPP because that does nothing to prevent the problems illustrated in that thread (and it is easy to argue that you are still placing a framework within a framework).