Champions Complete. This is more like it!

[Sammael]

Hello everyone! I'm new here. New to the forums and (mostly) new to Champions.

 

Until now my only experience with Champions was way back with the release of the 4th edition hardcover. I was to be a player in a campaign that never got off the ground. We rolled up characters and that's as far as it went. I recall loving the character creation (I designed a shape shifter), though it really was too much freedom for me back then. I also remember feeling very nervous about the mechanics of the game. Still, I had never before played a superhero game and I really wanted to.

 

Decades later, I've decided to get back into roleplaying and I'm going to run a superhero game (because I still want to play one and this will be the only way that'll happen). I checked out the 6th edition Hero System/Champions option, but declined after I discovered it would require 3 large books and, worse still, I was having trouble tracking down a physical copy of 6E1. In my searches I failed to uncover the fact that Champions Complete was being released soon.

 

I ended up with DC Adventures, primarily because it reminded me of Champions. The rules look alright, in general, but they are sloppy. 9 pages of errata sloppy. Had I checked into the errata prior to purchase, I would've saved myself some cash. The slop goes much farther than the errata, though. The rules are poorly organized and poorly written even where they're correct. So, in growing frustration, I cast my eye once again upon the available superhero roleplaying games.

 

And I finally saw Champions Complete. I bought it on the spot. I'm still reading it now, but what a contrast to DC Adventures. Champions Complete is well written and well organized. It's a joy to read and wonderfully cross-referenced. The book itself is not as lovely as the other game by design, but also because the lamination is already beginning to peel away from the cover. Still, I'm in love. This is how rules should be written and published.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

Thanks for the kind words, Sammael. Glad to hear you're enjoying the book!

[Sammael]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

Thanks for the kind words' date=' Sammael. Glad to hear you're enjoying the book! [/quote']

 

I am enjoying the book very much, but thank you for making that possible!

[Allensh]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

The cover lamination issue is hitting me too but I am also enjoying Champions Complete, and running the game again. Don't really share your view of DC Adventures, but that's ok Champions Complete is occupying my time right now anyway

 

Allen

[Spence]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

I've been gone from the Hero boards a really long time, though I do pop in to lurk and check for news every few months.

 

I received my print copy of CC in Nov and have had zero issues with the physical condition. I can also say that I think the content is right on target for a RPG release in 2012. Yes, I know that there are many with glossy pages and color art, but there are far more that have a color soft cover and black and white interior. I collect print RPG's and buy 2-3 rulebooks a month and CC physically blends in well.

 

I can say that the release of CC was a big surprise to me, and a welcome one. I had been looking for something to run that met two standards. First it was available to the FLGS. And second, had a full playable entry level ruleset for a reasonable price. The second item being very subjective. The new CC meets both requirements without "getting off track". And by "off track" I mean keeping examples and flavor text in the supers genre and not deviating too far into other genres. Previous Hero System rule books tended to be almost militantly generic (except for the genre specific supplements of course). Not a big deal to me, but a major obstacle in getting my gaming friends to try it. While CC doesn't really make any "changes" that I can find, more minor cosmetic changes to streamline a few things. It keeps the reader focused in on CC as being a Superhero RPG, and not adrift in the sea of undefined and directionless potential comes with a pure generic system.

 

Over the last couple years I have met several local gamers (role-players as opposed to Roll-players) and was planning a new supers game using the M&M3e (non-DC version of DC Adventures). My major sticking point was that while it is a good system it lacks depth that a game with an extensive history has. M&M2e had supplements that added rule blocks that permitted certain things that M&M3e just doesn't have the ability to simulate. I spent some time on the M&M boards and final solution always became "change my concept to fit the rules". With Hero, even after being away for a couple years, it was easy to make the build. So CC here I come.

 

Oh, by the way, I do want to say that I considers DCA (M&M3e) a well designed game that has been a lot of fun to play. I have a full set of the rule books and supplements on my shelf. I do believe that it falls short of being able to simulate any capability in the manner that Hero can. Close, but just short of the mark. Like ICONS and Villains and Vigilantes, M&M3e is a good game within its own boundary's. If it suffers from anything, it is that it simply doesn't have the 30+ years of experience that serves as Hero's foundation.

 

The only quibble I would have with CC is, instead of re-printing the Speed Chart on the last page (240), I would have used that space to hold a short itemized list of the changes from 6th Edition. As minor as they are, it still would have been nice to have an official listing in the book. I need to re-locate Derek's post about it and save a copy.

 

All that said, Champions Complete is a great addition to the Hero line and I look forward to seeing more. Perhaps a Star Hero Complete or Fantasy Hero Complete?

 

Spence

[Kaze9999]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

Does 'Champions Complete' leave out much of the content from the actual 'Champions 6e' book? What I am wondering is, if I don't either one, and only buy one of the two books (and I do own the two core books, 6e Vol I and Vol II), which one should I get?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

Does 'Champions Complete' leave out much of the content from the actual 'Champions 6e' book? What I am wondering is' date=' if I don't either one, and only buy one of the two books (and I do own the two core books, 6e Vol I and Vol II), which one should I get?[/quote']

 

If it's a choice between Champions 6e and Champions Complete with the caveat that you already own Hero System 6e v1&2 I would encourage purchasing Champions 6e. According to what others have posted, Champions Complete does cut out some examples. I don't know if this affects the Champions portion of the book but based on the page count I don't see how it could not. In a perfect world I would suggest getting both. I already own HS6ev1&v2 as well as Champions6e, I just haven't gotten around to purchasing Champions Complete yet. It would make the ideal 'loaner' copy of the rules.

[Kaze9999]

Re: Champions Complete. This is more like it!

 

If it's a choice between Champions 6e and Champions Complete with the caveat that you already own Hero System 6e v1&2 I would encourage purchasing Champions 6e. According to what others have posted' date=' Champions Complete does cut out some examples. I don't know if this affects the Champions portion of the book but based on the page count I don't see how it could not. In a perfect world I would suggest getting both. I already own HS6ev1&v2 as well as Champions6e, I just haven't gotten around to purchasing Champions Complete yet. It would make the ideal 'loaner' copy of the rules.[/quote']

 

Thanks; I went ahead and special ordered it at my FLGS which was fun because they said they didn't carry it, but have had people asking about it and might start. I love the fact that the bit and mortar program lets me get it at the local store and still get the PDF included. I wish Star Hero had the same deal.

[Nolgroth]

Not a "Champions" fan but I love the condensed nature of CC. Very easy to find what I am looking for. Don't get me wrong, when I want to research the whole enchilada, it's nice to have 6E1/6E2 handy. For quick info, CC is the way to go. Probably one of my favorite Hero purchases.

[steriaca]

It is a good book, and a good introduction to the Hero System WITHOUT simplfieing it to much (as Hero System Basic Rules does). There are a few things left out (like Mind Classes for mental powers), but you can run a decent Champions campain without that rule, and it can easly be reinstated if you want it (but will have to consult 6ed V1 for information about it).

 

As for lost examples, prehaps I might just go through my version of 6ed V1 and convert them to ChampCom someday. Right now I am doing a 'conversion list' for the Villain Volums (don't worry about it...most villains are only +/- a point or two as ChampCom uses an optinal 'colaspable skills', as to them not being optinal in 6ed, and the fortold Mental Classes thing, which on the basic level only affects Mechanon, Menton, and Cybermind.)