Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

[Cassandra]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

My EGO gets a +10 when dealing with Greywind.

[Greywind]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

That's almost free points with that Limit

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

VIPER was a very useful supplement in that it gave the background and organizational structure of the premier evil super-agents group in the Champions Universe.

 

I totally agree. The VIPER sourcebook "Coils of the Serpent" was another 5e book that really impressed me, to my utter surprise.

 

As a 12 year-old kid in the early 1980s, I 'wrote off' VIPER after my first read through of the 16 page introductory scenario "VIPER's Nest" that came with the 2e boxed set. At the time, neither I nor any of my friends had ever heard of Nick Fury or SHIELD, so the 'homage' to HYDRA was totally lost on us. VIPER was described succinctly in "VIPER's Nest" as a "terrorist organization." But the only terrorist I knew of at the time was Carlos the Jackal. And he didn't wear green and yellow spandex and a bulbous motorcycle helmet. The whole concept seemed ludicrous to us.

 

It was with that mindset I began to read "Coils of the Serpent" originally, having decided to buy it because I was impressed with some other 5e "Champions" books I'd already purchased. "What could these guys possibly do with the Champions version of COBRA," I wondered skeptically.

 

I was totally blown away by this more serious re-imagining of the formerly blundering organization as a competent and nuanced group; one with a long history, internal politics, a worldwide reach, and a much more specific 'ideology' and 'raison d'etre.'

 

(Though I should note that, because of my childhood ambivalence about VIPER, I never bought the 4e sourcebook on VIPER. So perhaps the creative advancements in the 5e version were more incremental than they appeared to me.)

[Zen Archer]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

I bought the 5e VIPER, UNTIL, and DEMON sourcebooks in a bundle and was pretty impressed with the lot. You could build several campaigns just with those.

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

I bought the 5e VIPER' date=' UNTIL, and DEMON sourcebooks in a bundle and was pretty impressed with the lot. [/quote']

 

I liked the "Demon" and "UNTIL" sourcebooks, too, though incrementally less than the "VIPER" book.

 

The re-imagined Demon was much better than the cartoonish 3e version. But the new detail about the leadership (like the Inverted Trinity) left me wistful for the B-movie Cthulhu cultists.

 

 

The UNTIL sourcebook succeeded in making the organization a more interesting group, but as described it was too bureaucratic and financially constrained for my personal taste.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

(Though I should note that' date=' because of my childhood ambivalence about VIPER, I never bought the 4e sourcebook on VIPER. So perhaps the creative advancements in the 5e version were more incremental than they appeared to me.)[/quote']

 

Scott Bennie, the author of VIPER: Coils Of The Serpent, was also co-author of the 4E VIPER book, so some of the seeds of the organization as presented now were already sown. However, 4E VIPER is a different group from 5E VIPER in several ways, some of which I personally prefer. Perhaps the most notable difference is the much larger and more diverse array of fully-statted supervillains working for 4E VIPER. The 5E version emphasizes the agents of VIPER to a much greater degree; not that the 4E one skimps on them in any way, but in that book they're not designed to be the main adversaries for superheroes. IME that's closer to the approach you commonly see in the comic-book source material. Agents are usually shown being waded through by superheroes on their way to confront their main supervillain adversaries, unless said agents are elite squads or specially equipped to deal with specific heroes.

 

(I should note Scott Bennie has remarked that fan criticisms of the number of supervillains in 4E VIPER, and how they overshadow the agents, contributed to the 5E approach, so the "diff'rent strokes" rule obviously applies.)

 

As with several other 4E groups or books which were given 5E updates, I've often found it easy and satisfying to cherry-pick elements from each one to combine into the version I want to use in my own games.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

I liked the "Demon" and "UNTIL" sourcebooks, too, though incrementally less than the "VIPER" book.

 

The re-imagined Demon was much better than the cartoonish 3e version. But the new detail about the leadership (like the Inverted Trinity) left me wistful for the B-movie Cthulhu cultists.

 

Several organizations and groups from the 3E era were updated for 4E in the book titled Classic Organizations. DEMON was one of these. Although still rooted in what had been developed for the 3E version, and far less detailed than DEMON: Servants Of Darkness, that version of DEMON is more occult and more sinister than its predecessor. Perhaps the most interesting take on the group from CO is that the technological element of DEMON from 3E was portrayed as a mere cover, to give superheroes someone to fight and distract them from DEMON's true activities.

 

As with VIPER, I found several elements of the 4E DEMON which I could adapt to enrich the current group.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

For 4th Edition, another classic book...Classic Organizations...which takes several 3rd edition modules and updates them to 4th ed. This is an excellent book...a lot of thought obviously went into the updates...and the writeups are all top notch. The updated material includes Red Doom, Neutral Ground, PRIMUS and DEMON, and CLOWN. The book has a lot of detail and there are plenty of adventure ideas...many of which are fully fleshed out scenarios in the book. The best use for this book for players now would be to use the elements from it that you like and integrate them into you campaign as you see fit. The weakest part of the book to me is the attempt to tie all these organizations together through a big massive crossover battle at the start of the book. Not so much the concept...which isn't bad....but the execution of it. A minor gripe on a great book though. Every HERO system player who uses it for supers should have this book....no matter which edition you're currently using.

[wcw43921]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

I have a fondness in my heart for the old V&V scenario "Crisis at Crusader Citadel". I like Mocker and the V&V "Shrinker (real name unrecalled)" characters' date=' better than Mechanon or (our) Shrinker. [/quote']

 

As Greywind mentioned, that was Marionette. She was about one foot tall and had mind control powers. Not to mention really huge, creepy eyes.

 

If you like the adventure Crisis at Crusader Citadel, you will loooovvve the Villains & Vigilantes mini-series adaptation. Produced by the men themselves, Jack Herman & Jeff Dee, it featured two novice (yet powerful) superheroes, Condor and Shatterman, as they try to join the Crusaders--only to find that their Citadel has been taken over by the Crushers. It had some really great moments, especially with the dumb-as-hammers brick Bull, who was depicted reading Zen wisdom off a Bazooka Joe comic and singing the Mr. Eraser song (courtesy of Bill Willingham--"When Mr. Eraser comes, then what you've drawn is done--for I am Mr. Eraser!"). There were also some gaming supplement pages in each issue, including two new villains, character sheets for Condor and Shatterman, and the Crusaders' space shuttle--although I would have preferred a write-up for the Inter-Continental Ballistic Man.

 

You forgot Wimp World.

 

I had an idea as to how that actually might have come about, as I really couldn't see it occurring naturally--evolution does not favor wusses. In that reality, shortly after the end of World War II, a brilliant scientist decided to bring about an end to war before it brought about an end to humanity. To that end he built what he called the "Pacifier"--a mass mind control device (not unlike the Mind-Control Wave Emitter described on page 123 of 5th Edition Champions) that would suppress all violent and aggressive thought. He activated it, and it worked beyond his expectations--all war--indeed, all violence--came to an end. But at the same time that the Pacifier was suppressing humanity's aggressive tendencies, it was also suppressing the related tendencies of bravery and ambition. Technological and societal development slowed to almost nothing, as no one had the desire to achieve any sort of progress. While the scientist who created the Pacifier realized all that had happened, he concluded it was a necessary price to pay for world peace.

 

Fortunately for humanity, the Pacifier worked just as well on alien minds as it did on humans. Any potential invaders found themselves pacified as well, rendering them unable to perpetuate a war of conquest against Earth. Before long the word spread to the peoples of the galaxy--"Leave this world alone. There is nothing there worth your time."

 

When the PCs arrive, the Pacifier has been in operation for generations, and the world has been well and truly "wussified," according to the descrpition of Wimp World in Champions 3D. But the machine is starting to break down, and more and more people are committing acts of violence, usually in the form of rage-fueled outbursts that everyone else is too terrified to stop. Some of these who actually can control their anger have been ruthlessly dominating their less violent fellows, bullying their way to the top of the social order. It is up to the PCs to find out what is going on and engineer a solution--if one can be found.

 

Hope that helps.

[Kirby]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

The Wimp World idea could be something like a successful version of Firefly's/Serenity's planet Miranda, sans Reapers side effect.

 

I like the "Pacifier" affect on alien invasions, too.

[wcw43921]

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

The Wimp World idea could be something like a successful version of Firefly's/Serenity's planet Miranda' date=' [i']sans[/i] Reapers side effect.

 

Exactly. There would be a very few who would likely be too violent to be pacified, or who would react badly to the pacification effect--but they wouldn't be numerous enough to pose a huge threat. They would be not unlike the main character in Damon Knight's story The Country Of The Kind, in which a man who commits an act of violence is shunned by the rest of society, who don't even acknowledge his existence. (Now in Wimp World the people would be more likely to flee screaming from such a person, but the result would be the same--the offender would be left alone to do whatever he wanted.)

 

I like the "Pacifier" affect on alien invasions' date=' too.[/quote']

 

Well, it was necessary--otherwise alien tyrants would mow down humanity like blades of fresh grass.