High-powered and Cosmic Gaming advice

[SuperPheemy]

Originally posted by lemming

BORING!

Begin snarky response to snarky comment

And adding up two dozen dice to get effectively the same result is the height of dramatic tension and excitement.

End response=snarky

 

 

You just need to learn to add up dice faster.

Group the dice by 10s. Start with pullig all the 6s & 4s, etc...

Count the number of 6s & 1s. The diff tells you how much you're up or down body.

 

I didn't mean to imply that the problem was the speed of determinitg the die results. Adding the dice becomes very easy. And as you've pointed out collecting 10s is both fast and efficient.

 

I was merely pointing out a feature of a multiple-dice curve and its effect on game play. Simply stated, the larger the dice pool rolled, the greater the chance of a median result. When dealing with high-point characters, we will be facing large die pools.

 

It also gets you into the, hah! I can ignore that attack, it can't hurt me.

 

I'm addressing this out of order for a reason. Because a large die pool achieves an overwhelming number of median results, the "hah! I can ignore that attack" situation still occurs. For example, with a Normal 20 die effect, the vast majority of rolled results will fall between 60 and 80 points. Thus, even though a player may know that the possibility of a 100 or 110 point effect exists, the probability of the high-end result occurring becomes negligible. In other words, if you have a DEF equal to 4 points per die of an expected attack, at high dice pools, you can reasonably expect to safely ignore the attack. (Which is why Killing Attacks throw off the DC system, statistically. A DC 18 normal attack operates in a statistical pool of 6^20 possible combinations, while a DC 18 Killing Attack operates in a statistical pool of 6^6 possible combinations.)

 

This is also given in the light that a high-point HERO campaign should keep a distinct focus on activities that do not rely on rolling multiple handfulls of dice. But that premise should be applied to any campaign regardless of point totals or damage classes.

[lemming]

Originally posted by SuperPheemy

I'm addressing this out of order for a reason. Because a large die pool achieves an overwhelming number of median results, the "hah! I can ignore that attack" situation still occurs. For example, with a Normal 20 die effect.

*snip*snip*snip*

This is also given in the light that a high-point HERO campaign should keep a distinct focus on activities that do not rely on rolling multiple handfulls of dice. But that premise should be applied to any campaign regardless of point totals or damage classes.

I'll deal with these in reverse: I totally agree with the second item.

 

It's been my experience that while there is an average, you still get a wide range of results. Our cosmic powered games where 30-50 dice were being rolled still would show a large median.

 

The only times I would consider the "just take the average" method is if it was for an unimportant roll.

 

I'm not calling your method wrong, I just wouldn't want to play that way.

[Victim]

Why not just turn some of the dice into a fixed number, and roll the rest? Instead of a 30d6 attack, make it a 10d6+70 attack.

[megaplayboy]

Originally posted by Victim

Why not just turn some of the dice into a fixed number, and roll the rest? Instead of a 30d6 attack, make it a 10d6+70 attack.

 

If you want to do that, have every 14d6=50. divide the number of dice by 14, multiply the integer of that number by 50 and add the roll of "remainder"d6 to it. Probably pretty close to the range you get by rolling 50d6 for example.

 

You can also(for variety), have half-crits(make a half roll) yield 4 pips/die, and full crits(roll a 3) equal max damage.

[Blue]

You know what I can't grasp at this level? Those characters that are so hard to build at lower levels, like Martial Artists. An MA with 600pts, to me, would have an outrageous amount of unused points or a collection of additional powers that are distinctly non-martial-artist.

[megaplayboy]

Originally posted by Blue

You know what I can't grasp at this level? Those characters that are so hard to build at lower levels, like Martial Artists. An MA with 600pts, to me, would have an outrageous amount of unused points or a collection of additional powers that are distinctly non-martial-artist.

hmm...I have a huge collection of Chinese comics and DragonBallZ tapes which may suggest otherwise...granted, if you are talking "realistic, limits of human capability" style martial artists, you probably hit a wall at a lower point...but I could still come up with a ton of abilities appropriate to a 600 point martial artist.

 

And Batman is basically a martial artist with a ton of other skills, who generally costs out well above 600 points;)

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Blue

You know what I can't grasp at this level? Those characters that are so hard to build at lower levels, like Martial Artists. An MA with 600pts, to me, would have an outrageous amount of unused points or a collection of additional powers that are distinctly non-martial-artist.

 

I have to disagree with this:

 

You would have an OBSCENE Find Weekness roll

 

You would have a bunch of non power powers

 

In the future, so you would probably outfit yourself with gear

 

You would at this level know every martial art on earth (How many KS is that?)

 

I could do it...

[Vondy]

I've started using the standard effect rule in my PBEM game for all attacks - and offset it with critical hits that serve as a one time "find weakness" roll.

 

My group - which is largely a group of storyists - prefers it.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by D-Man

I've started using the standard effect rule in my PBEM game for all attacks - and offset it with critical hits that serve as a one time "find weakness" roll.

 

My group - which is largely a group of storyists - prefers it.

 

How are you doing critical hits? Do you mean by the book and if it occurs you consider defenses halved?

[Blue]

I think I've been considering mostly my last two MA's, who are distinctly non-mutant. I mean, one has outrageous defense levels (but that's her thing... getting kicked around and still coming back for more) and the other had a few "chi" martial combat skills. I think I'm going to have to just pump one up to 600 and see if I could possibly spend that many points.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Blue

I think I'm going to have to just pump one up to 600 and see if I could possibly spend that many points.

Come to think of it, a couple of my MAs are in the 600-800 point range.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by zornwil

How are you doing critical hits? Do you mean by the book and if it occurs you consider defenses halved?

 

I use the formula in UMA for determining whether a hit was "critical" and if it was then the attack halves the relevant defenses (like the character made a find weakness roll) for that attack.

 

The standardized results allow more story-centric player decisions and, as a side effect, removes the stun lotto (which for more traditional super genres is a good thing). I allow them to "brace" to do max damage to inanimate objects (knocking in vault doors and whatnot).

 

I don't know how it would go down at a table-top game, but for PBEM it works well (since its a more character and less combat driven format). In table top games I only standardize KA results for genre management.

 

I initially tried critical hit equals max stun, but that was too much.

[megaplayboy]

Originally posted by Blue

I think I've been considering mostly my last two MA's, who are distinctly non-mutant. I mean, one has outrageous defense levels (but that's her thing... getting kicked around and still coming back for more) and the other had a few "chi" martial combat skills. I think I'm going to have to just pump one up to 600 and see if I could possibly spend that many points.

 

30 dex, 7 speed= 90 points

10 maneuvers, +4 DC, 4 weapon elements=60 points

find weakness, martial arts, 12- = 25 points

6 levels hand to hand=30 points

30 points in martial arts related skills

 

plus at least 100-150 more points in stats, 50 points in noncombat skills, maybe danger sense or perception levels, at least 20 points for body armor or awareness-based damage reduction. 20 points for movement.

That'll get you over 500 points, and that's only for a 12d6, speed 7 martial artist.

[lemming]

Originally posted by D-Man

I allow them to "brace" to do max damage to inanimate objects (knocking in vault doors and whatnot).

That sounds like an idea worth stealing.

[Farkling]

I usually just allow 4 BOD / die on KA's, and 1 per die for Normal attacks when used "out of combat". Especially if a roll would slow the story down.

 

Recently I started allowing haymakered attacks out of combat for characters taking extra time and making a concentrated effort. Much the same as the brace effect discussed. So far that works pretty well too...though Cory scares most of the gaming group...haymaker on her STR reaches 100 at max END drain...most of them top out at 75 AP, and have advantages on those powers. Her raw power and impulsivenes (along with "I'm mostly invulnerable, it says so right on my character sheet") has gotten them INTO a few scrapes.

 

Gamer:: "Liz, Cory has mostly invulnerable as a disadvantage"

Liz: "how can being invulnerable be a disadvantage? I can't get hurt"

Gamer:: "Liz...you are not invulnerable!"

Liz:: "...but the Terminator didn't kill me when it blew up, and THAT I was vulnerable to...says so right here. It didn't work...'cause I'm mostly invulnerable"

Gamer:: "AAAARGH"

Liz:: "I suppose not being able to get shots is bad, but I don't get sick, and I don't like needles. I'm invulnerable, mostly!"

Gamer:: *stunned silence*

 

I am never bored at the games. House rule is 1 XP bonus to anyone who reduces the whoel group to hysterical laughter during the natural course of the game. Sadly the player that wrote "AREA 51" across the Helipad in 20 foot high letters only reduced half of us to hysterical laughter.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I've always found it obscenely easy to spend large numbers of points on virtually any character, martial artist or otherwise. It's particulary easy in the case of martial artists - one can always use more noncombat skills (KS: Specific art, Chinese Healing, etc), weapon familiarities, overall skill levels, etc. If one's trying to mimic anything even remotely resembling reality, martial arts characters eventually reach a point where buying up their attacks starts to become ridiculous (the point when they can kick through Abrams tank armor), but they can still always use some Sleight of Hand or some new ch'i abilities.

[megaplayboy]

just thought of more stuff:

 

Plot device powers--things like blowing up planets shouldn't cost points, unless you can do it in combat;) We all now it costs hundreds of active points to do it slowly and thousands to do it quickly, so just treat it as a plot device and move on--if you have to stat it out, do so, but don't worry about the cost.

 

If a player really wants their character to be the best at something, let them. As long as it's not too broad, like "best martial artist in the universe". There should be a LITTLE competition for something like that:)