House rule for active point level for "Tricks" or non power related power effects

[Martin2]

I am not flexible enough with my power effects not directly bought with character points.

 

I need to be more flexible but I have problems assigning active point levels to power effects.

 

In a 60 active point game what do other GM's assign as a maximum effect?

 

Say hero grabs a hand full of sand and throws it in the eyes of a villain. They do not have a VPP or related power.

 

Would a hero with no SF related to flash sight get 5 active points? Or say 1/4 the effect of the game say 15 active points.

 

A super strong character with big hands 1/2 say 30 points?

 

Similar thing with 50 strength character bashed a gong to improvise area effect flash hearing? 5 active points or possibly 25 active points (half his strength).

 

Any house rules for this sort of thing?

 

 

[GhostDancer]

I lowball the Active Points for such, though I may be inclined to be more generous based on the whole picture. For example, I'm less focused (heh) on points in a Pulp game. Also, is the effect an attempt to save an innocent or a teammate?

Back to the hurled sand example- if the villain has eye lenses (coverings), no effect. Otherwise, I'll invoke an obsolete rule from oldest editions- villain gets a DEX roll to blink, success means no effect.

[rstehwien]

I'm returning to Hero from a long time with Mutants and Masterminds (things about Hero I still like better and I was making changes to get closer to Hero and 3e moved further from what I liked). But I really like power stunts from M&M and never found them to be a problem even with people with variable powers in the mix (like a VPP). So I'm likely to be very generous and use some of the options from Advanced Player's Guide 1. I'll require spending some END (1/10 active points or something) to make the roll and if you succeed a the skill check you can:

• Create a new power with the same number of active points (could be same power with different modifiers)
  
• Add up to +1/2 worth of advantages or remove -1/2 worth of limitations
  

Minor tricks won't require spending END. Reusing the same trick too often and I'll assign a penalty from -1 to -3 (or more) to the skill.

[Ninja-Bear]

I lowball the Active Points for such, though I may be inclined to be more generous based on the whole picture. For example, I'm less focused (heh) on points in a Pulp game. Also, is the effect an attempt to save an innocent or a teammate?

Back to the hurled sand example- if the villain has eye lenses (coverings), no effect. Otherwise, I'll invoke an obsolete rule from oldest editions- villain gets a DEX roll to blink, success means no effect.

Fwiw, I would allow a flash against a villain with lenses. The flinch reaction is very strong and primal instinct.

[Beast]

3 pts can buy you skill with your power

as a 1 shot per story I'd let you roll (no mods)and how ever you made the roll by x5 for active pts for the power you want to do

but you need to flesh out how you could do that effect with the power and sfx you already have

Doing a flash and you sfx is shooting with a .44 magnum is going to need a real good explanation

 

you might want to buy a 15pt vpp Utility Belt for those small effects

[Altheus]

How about abigger, an electricity based hero fighting a lot of goons in a tunnel with a sprinkler system. The hero triggers the sprinkler system to get the floor nice and conductive, then aims a 12D6 blast at the floor. Should that blast extend to everyone standing in the water in a small-ish sized space as an area effect?

 

[Ninja-Bear]

3 pts can buy you skill with your power

as a 1 shot per story I'd let you roll (no mods)and how ever you made the roll by x5 for active pts for the power you want to do

but you need to flesh out how you could do that effect with the power and sfx you already have

Doing a flash and you sfx is shooting with a .44 magnum is going to need a real good explanation

 

you might want to buy a 15pt vpp Utility Belt for those small effects

Well depending on where they're standing, the hero could shoot a wall or something similar and the debris kicked up is what causes the flash.

[Martin2]

That is covered in the environment rules. If the power is bought as "real electricity" you have Insulated, poorly grounded and well grounded. Water will shift the target to the right. So the standard effect is poorly grounded would become well grounded. In this case it converts normal damage to an equivalent active point killing damage. So not a thing to do if you want to capture people. Making it area effect for everyone may be too powerful. But it may effect one other if close enough.

 

Would anyone else say they would get multiple targets?

[ayinde]

I think beast has best approach

[Greywind]

That is covered in the environment rules. If the power is bought as "real electricity" you have Insulated, poorly grounded and well grounded. Water will shift the target to the right. So the standard effect is poorly grounded would become well grounded. In this case it converts normal damage to an equivalent active point killing damage. So not a thing to do if you want to capture people. Making it area effect for everyone may be too powerful. But it may effect one other if close enough.

 

Would anyone else say they would get multiple targets?

I don't know about 6E, but prior editions also had water giving electrical attacks an area effect.

[Grailknight]

Before the APG's came along, we worked out a Power Skill system for my campaign. Basically you could use the Power Skill to modify your power at its Casual ( 1/2 power ) DC's with a Power Skill check. Each +1 you made the roll by (max +4 ) allowed a 1/4 advantage (Max points in power was still half but could be used in a variety of ways) or for +5 roll you could change the power to another with the limits of your special effect at 1/4 of the power's DC's, So if you started with a 12 DC blast you could always do 6 DC as a casual with no roll, for -4 you could do 3 DC with +1 in advantages or -5 a totally different 3 DC power within reason based on special effects.

 

[psyber624]

I would say something like that should be very genre-dependent. In a game like Champions throwing sand in someone's eye shouldn't be very effective, otherwise why pay points for flash attacks?

 

If a player wanted to do something like that ONE time and it was dramatically appropriate and in the spirit of the game I would probably allow it with a modified skill roll, granting 5 CP worth of power for each +1 they rolled. Other than that they would need to purchase the Power Skill and follow the rules for that. Sure, in the real world anyone can throw sand in your eye to blind you but for the same reason that you cant just go "buy a gun or some body armor" in a supers campaign this isn't something that should happen often at all.

 

For the same reason I don't allow "real" electricity or fire (or other) SFX in my campaigns. You don't get any bonus abilities for free just because of your SFX. You have to build the power how you want it to work.

[psyber624]

I would say something like that should be very genre-dependent. In a game like Champions throwing sand in someone's eye shouldn't be very effective, otherwise why pay points for flash attacks?

 

If a player wanted to do something like that ONE time and it was dramatically appropriate and in the spirit of the game I would probably allow it with a modified skill roll, granting 5 CP worth of power for each +1 they rolled. Other than that they would need to purchase the Power Skill and follow the rules for that. Sure, in the real world anyone can throw sand in your eye to blind you but for the same reason that you cant just go "buy a gun or some body armor" in a supers campaign this isn't something that should happen often at all.

 

For the same reason I don't allow "real" electricity or fire (or other) SFX in my campaigns. You don't get any bonus abilities for free just because of your SFX. You have to build the power how you want it to work.

[Beast]

I think beast has best approach

which one?

 

Thanks

[Beast]

I think beast has best approach

which one?

 

Thanks

[Altheus]

Hi psyber624, I see what you're saying but I disagree with it. Yes, players shouldn't routinely use their powers sfx to get them to do things they haven't paid for, however, I think a fire attack should generate heat and set combustables on fire, a lightning attack should behave like electricity (example in one of the x-men films Storm refuses to call a lightning bolt down to the (copper) statue of liberty when she and several others were standing inside it) a cold attack should chill / freeze water.

 

I suppose the points I'm trying to get across are:

 

1. I'm a player - not a dice rolling engine, I think, I plot, I connive and contrive and sometimes I come up with creative applications for powers and I would like these to at least be considered rather than told "It doesn't work like that."

 

2. I think that physics in games should at least loosely reflect reality - loosely enough to knock someone through a building rather than turning them in to chunky salsa for instance.

 

[Altheus]

Hi psyber624, I see what you're saying but I disagree with it. Yes, players shouldn't routinely use their powers sfx to get them to do things they haven't paid for, however, I think a fire attack should generate heat and set combustables on fire, a lightning attack should behave like electricity (example in one of the x-men films Storm refuses to call a lightning bolt down to the (copper) statue of liberty when she and several others were standing inside it) a cold attack should chill / freeze water.

 

I suppose the points I'm trying to get across are:

 

1. I'm a player - not a dice rolling engine, I think, I plot, I connive and contrive and sometimes I come up with creative applications for powers and I would like these to at least be considered rather than told "It doesn't work like that."

 

2. I think that physics in games should at least loosely reflect reality - loosely enough to knock someone through a building rather than turning them in to chunky salsa for instance.

[Cassandra]

Use the minimum level of attack for any such tricks. Sand in the face is a 1d6 Flash [sight] but would require an INT Roll to pull it off. The target would also have an INT Roll to avoid being effected (i.e., they see what the Character is up to.)