Damage rules are rather confusing...please explain

[psyber624]

No' date=' its categorically wrong. The 4d6N damage club + STR 20 = 8d6N attack already does 8 BODY and 28 STUN on average. You don't convert the club to do killing damage on the fly. It's not a killing attack, the club is a normal damage attack. The thing to understand is that "normal damage" inflicts both STUN [i']and[/i] BODY, just as "killing damage" does.

 

The main difference between them is the ratio; compared to each other on average "normal damage" does more STUN than BODY per DC and "killing damage" does more BODY than STUN per DC.

Another important difference is what Defense stop the BODY Damage dealt by either.

Killing Attacks need less Dice for comparable effect, both because they they produce more BODY/dice and because fewer defenses apply. The usual comparsion between the two is the example of two 12 DC attacks:

12D6 Normal Damage:

0-24 BODY, 12 BODY average. Resistant and Non-Resistant ("Normal") Defenses work

12-72 STUN, 42 STUN average. Resistant and Normal Defense work

 

4d6 Killing Damage:

4-24 BODY, 14 BODY average. Only Resistant defenses work

4-72 STUN, 28 STUN average. Resistant and Normal defenses work

 

While the maximum values for both attacks are identical, the averages varry strongly. KA's BODY is also more worth by there being fewer resistant defenses then normal Defenses around.

 

Wheter these 12 DC come from the raw power of the attack (a 12 DC Blast, 4D6 RKA), a power that allwos STR to be added (9D6 HTH-Attack, 3D6 KA plus 3 DC from STR), Maneuvers (a 8 DC Blast or 3.5d6 RKA Haymakered) or a combination of those is irrelevant.

 

Regarding conversion between Normal and Killing Damage:

With the optional rules it is possible to make a Killing Damage Attack into a Normal Damage Attack using the "Club Weapon" Maneuver (6E2 84; Examples include "Striking with Flat side of blade"). This has nothing to do with Clubs or how they are build.

It is not possible to make Normal Damage into Killing Damage*. However if you can let STR add to the Damage of something that is already a Killing Attack.

 

*Martial Arts killing Attack is the exception, but it is rarely used for anything but your raw STR/unarmed combat anyway.

Note that to prevent STR characters from buying cheesy 1 point HKA's that allow them to use their STR as a Killing Attack if they wish you can either enforce the damage doubling rules (you can't more than double the DC's in an attack through strength/maneuvers/etc) or you can just handwave that distinction away and allow them to do so.

[Theros]

Ok...I think that I get the rules, but those are rather confusing.

[bigbywolfe]

Ok...I think that I get the rules, but those are rather confusing.

I'm not sure why. Much of what you asked had absolutely nothing to do with anything in the rule books (like dividing to determine Damage Classes when what equals a DC is listed right in the book or talking about looking at charts mid-combat to determine something or other).

 

Perhaps you should use the pre-made characters in the book and play out a trial combat.

[psyber624]

Ok...I think that I get the rules, but those are rather confusing.

To be fair, confusing is a relative term. I have a gift with mathematics and have done some tutoring in the past (professionally) and was frequently shocked at the myriad of ways different people could become confused about something that to me seemed glaringly obvious. This is not in any way to be read as an attack or belittlement of those people, different people have different skillsets that they bring to any challenge and so different things may throw them (I am at a total loss in any normal social situation for instance).

 

Theros if you are still confused by something in the rules please don't be afraid to bring it up again. Maybe we need to restate it a different way. Maybe we need to take another approach to explaining how it works. One of the things I learned when tutoring is sometimes changing the way you say something even slightly may be all that is needed for a light bulb to go off in someones head.

 

On your part just remember that this is HERO, not DnD or Paladium or any other rules set you may be familiar with. If you try to learn this system by drawing comparisons to how it does things compared to how your other systems do you are asking for trouble. From the ground up HERO is a different system, especially than DnD. While they are both Role Playing Games trying to compare the two is like looking at apples and oranges. Sure they are both fruit, but the similarities pretty much end there. Judge and learn HERO on its own merits, not by trying to relate it to a different system it never intended to emulate.

[Lucius]

Maybe if we turn it around and look at it from the point of view of someone TAKING damage, it will give a different perspective. Let's ask the palindromedary as I do it some damage.

 

Palindromedary: Hey! Why are you picking on me?

 

Because you're the most socially acceptable victim available. Besides, it's not like you aren't going to create a batch of those expendable duplicates.

 

Palindromedary: Oh, right.

 

(As the palindromedary begins duplicating itself several times over by the expedient of running in both directions at once and thus putting itself simultaneously in two different places, then four, then eight, etc, Lucius hangs a big sign from the ceiling.)

The Adventures of Lucius Alexander and the SUPERpalindromedary!

The world's 5,692nd Greatest Comics Magazine!

by Palindromedary Periodicals

 

There, now we're under "Superheroic" rules. Simpler in some ways but with a complication or two. Let's look at our first volunteer.

 

Palindromedary A: Well Lucius, I have CON 5, STUN 10, BOD 5, PD 2, ED 2, REC 2....what else do you want to know?

 

Tell me how I can hurt you...what kind of damage I might do?

 

Palindromedary A: I might take STUN damage, which can stun me - meaning I lose a phase - or knock me unconscious, meaning I'm unaware of the environment and unable to act until recovering consciousness. And I might take BODy damage, which can injure me or even kill me.

 

Let's go around to the other end of the palindromedary and get a second opinion from the other head. Tell me, what kind of damage might you take?

 

Palindromedary A (other head) : I can take physical damage, such as you hitting me with your fist; I can stop some of that with my Physical Defense (PD.) Or I can take energy damage, if you hit me with lightning or try to set fire to me; I can stop some of that with my Energy Defense (ED.) And then there's mental damage...

 

Let's leave the mental out of this for now.

 

Palindromdary A: You often do, Lucius

 

Ahem. As usual, the palindromedary is right at both ends. Damage can be characterized by what defends against it, or by what kind of "hit points" it makes you lose. BUT, if you make ED and PD equal, as the palindromedary has, you really don't even have to worry about that distinction, a great way to simplify the game. Tell me, do you really care if I use a physical or energy attack?

 

Palindromedary A: Not really Lucius, it will hurt the same either way. I'm more worried about if you'll beat me into unconsciousness, which I'll eventually wake up from, or seriously wound me, which takes time to heal.

 

Since almost EVERY attack does both STUN and BOD, there's no reason I can't do both. But note that because this particular palindromedary has a REC of 2, at the end of every Turn, and every time it stops to "Recover" - basically catch its breath and rest for just a few seconds - it will get back 2 STUN, so it can lose all its STUN and be back to normal quickly. If deeply unconscious a character recovers STUN more slowly, but still much faster than they recover BODy. It takes a whole month to get back your RECovery score in BODy points!

 

Time to hit the palindromedary!

 

Palindromedary A: I hope he rolls an 18 on the to hit roll.

 

I'm not punching very hard, so I'm only rolling 2d6 for damage. I get a 3 and a 5. That's a total of 8 STUN and 2 BOD. If this is going too fast for you, stop me and ask questions.

 

Palindromedary A: That's 2 BOD, but my PD is 2, so it stops all of it and I'm not injured. So I'm okay on that score. But that's 8 STUN and my PD only stops 2 so I take 6 STUN from my STUN score and have STUN of 4 now. Worse, 6 STUN is great than my CON of 5. I'm stunned!

 

You can just stand there and look dazed for a phase then. Your DCV is halved and you can take no actions until your next phase, when your only action is "recover from being stunned!"

But since combat usually begins on Segment 12, and you get a Post-Segment 12 Recovery, you can add 2 points to your STUN total now.

 

Palindromedary A: My STUN is now 6. Since I'm just an expendable duplicate palindromedary I only have SPD 1, so I don't even get to recover from being stunned until Segment 7. Do I look as dazed as I feel?

 

Sure do. I'm going to hit you with a stick now. Even under superheroic rules I don't have to pay points for an improvised weapon, and I found this stick conveniently lying around. It's going to add 2d6 to my Normal STR damage. I roll 4d6 and get 1, 5, 4, and 3. That's 13 STUN and 3 BOD.

 

Palindromedary A: My PD stops 2 pts of BOD, so I only take 1 BOD. My current BOD is now 4. My PD stops 2 pts of the 13 STUN, so I subtract 11 from my STUN score of 6, so I'm at -5 STUN.

 

Note that the palindromedary is still on its feet - that's because it's not yet to -10 STUN, so it's barely awake but not able to move or act.

 

That describes me right now, it's midnight here. I'm going to stop here and pick up again another time.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Kind of superfluous in this post, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

 

[psyber624]

Shhh, now that Lucius is sleeping I can take a whack at this. You see I am the Great White Palindromedary Hunter and Lucius' buddies there are my favorite game to hunt (not to mention some damn fine eatin too!)

 

So, I am going to take out my Trusty Smythe and Peterson Palindromedary Plugger 2000, a nice rifle that does a 2d6 Killing Attack at Range. I take a careful shot at Palindromedary B since he is still fully concious. Now Palindromedary B has the same stats as Palindromedary A did, so since I hit (I am an expert shot after all) I roll my damage. 2d6 KA gives me a 3 and a 6 for a total of 9 Body Damage done. I then roll a d3 for StunX and get a 2 so I do 9 Body and 18 Stun to that critter.

 

Now, Palindromedary B has no Resistant Physical Defense (rPD) so all of my Body Damage gets through. He has 5 Body so my shot takes him to -4 Body. He is dying, bleeding out and will loose an additional point of Body during Post-Segment 12 of every turn. As his base BODY is 5 if he looses one more point of BODY he will be at -5 and will be DEAD so he has until the end of this turn to get some medical attention. He also takes 18 Stun, - 2 for his PD so he takes 16 Stun going to -6 Stun. So he is also Knocked Out (KO'd) and will be unconscious until he gains back at least 6 Stun (which with REC 2 will take a while, assuming he lives that long.)

 

One down, one to go. The other Palindromedary is still stunned so no need to waste a bullet on it. I take out my Trusty Palidromedary Plucker, a 1d6 KA dagger I always carry around, and head on over to put the poor beast out of my misery. He is just standing there dazed there so hitting him isn't hard. Now, one thing to note, I have been hunting Palindromedaries for years now so I have a STR of 15. My dagger is a melee weapon, built with a Hand to Hand Killing Attack so I get to add my Strength. 15 STR adds 1d6 to killing attacks so my Dagger also does 2d6 Killing Damage when I hit with it. I roll the dice and get a 2 and a 3 for 5 Body, and this time only get a 1 on my d3 StunX die. So I do 5 Body and 5 Stun. Again there is no rPD so I do the full 5 points to the Stunned beast and put him at 0 Body. If I leave him alone he will slowly bleed out and die unless someone comes along to help him. The 5 Stun i did is reduced by his PD to only 3 Stun (the fact that he was Stunned has no effect on his PD normally) so he is now at 1 Stun. Oddly enough while he is still bleeding to death he is fully conscious (if rather dazed till he can recover from being Stunned) and will likely start screaming out for help.

 

Time for me to skedaddle before reinforcements show up!

[Tasha]

 

 

 

Okay, I don't know what you mean by "no need to buy some extra things with CPs?" I think you better explain it before I even try to address it. If I guess at your meaning I'll probably be wrong.

 

 

 

​The palindromedary wants to know what kind of game you want to run - did you say Champions, meaning comic book superhero type adventure?

 

This one needs explanation. Ok, I did write it wrong, but I'll explain with more details. If you buy superpower for some character, that inflicts 5d6 damage (lets say blast). That damage is treated as Normal Damage (?). Then...if player wants he can buy some adders (I don't remember which was the name of addition that should be bought to power) which chance damage so that character will inflict killing damage instead? Right?

 

So in basic forms, weapons are inflicting killing damage. Other attacks like Blast spell, rocks, throwing character through the stone wall etc... inflict Normal Damage?

One tends to use Blast for Normal Damage attacks. The Killing Attack Powers (Both Hand to Hand and Ranged) is what you use for Killing attacks. You can use a Power Advantage on Blast to allow it to apply against resistant Defenses, but it doesn't turn it into a Killing attack. The Blast will still do Stun Damage based on the amount rolled on the die and the Body will calculated using the rules for Normal Attacks. The Killing Attack will do Body Damage based on the points rolled on the dice, with stun coming from the 1/2 d6 stun multiplier (or derived from the Hit Location chart if running Non supers).

[Tasha]

 

 

 

Okay, I don't know what you mean by "no need to buy some extra things with CPs?" I think you better explain it before I even try to address it. If I guess at your meaning I'll probably be wrong.

 

 

 

​The palindromedary wants to know what kind of game you want to run - did you say Champions, meaning comic book superhero type adventure?

 

This one needs explanation. Ok, I did write it wrong, but I'll explain with more details. If you buy superpower for some character, that inflicts 5d6 damage (lets say blast). That damage is treated as Normal Damage (?). Then...if player wants he can buy some adders (I don't remember which was the name of addition that should be bought to power) which chance damage so that character will inflict killing damage instead? Right?

 

So in basic forms, weapons are inflicting killing damage. Other attacks like Blast spell, rocks, throwing character through the stone wall etc... inflict Normal Damage?

When you build weapons, Bludgeoning weapons like Fists, Clubs and Quarterstaves do Normal Damage. Any piercing, edged, knobbed etc weapon will be written up as a Killing Attack. ie Gunpowder Firearms are written up using a Killing Attack. Swords, Hammers, Axes are also written up as Killing Attacks. A good way to look at it is If the weapon is designed to Kill the person it's a Killing Attack, If it's designed to knock a person out it's a Normal Attack.

 

It's also a matter of Genre. Superheroic games tend to be nearly 100% Normal Attacks with the occasional Killing attack. Gritty Fantasy games tend to be very Killing Attack oriented.

[Tasha]

I think that I am getting to rules bit by bit...this seems to be hard to change mindset to this kind of rules.

 

Ok...let me know if I got this point right:

 

If character has STR 20. When he punches he rolls 4d6, his DC is 4. Causes stun damage and dices determine what will be the body damage.

 

Then character decides to use club. Lets say that club has damage class 4 (4d6 damage). As club won't do killing damage character with STR 20 will inflict 8 DCs damage...in this case it should be checked from the certain table (?).

 

Then...character will start to use sword. Sword does killing damage of 2d6. In killing damage Normal Damage DC is divided by 3. Then Character has DC 1 to killing damage. In this case Damage of sword will increase by one DC (lets say that 2d6 is DC 4, so it will increase to DC 5, where damage is 2d6+1). Right?

 

Then comes question that confuses me.

 

If character wil club wants to inflict killing damage (it is possible to kill with club). He divides Club DC by 3, when it is 1, then adds his characters strenght DC for killing damage, which is 1. Total of 2 DC, which is... xDC (I dont't have book with me).

 

Is that right?

If the club is written up as Normal Damage it will do Normal damage no matter what. You can kill with a club or fists it just isn't as likely to kill as an attack built with the Killing Attack Powers.

 

So your Character has a DC 6 Club and Greatsword. The Club is 6d6N and the Greatsword is 2d6K. Assuming a 20 Strength (DC 4) and no strength minimum on the weapon. The Club would do 10d6N(Avg Stun 35, Body 10) and the Greatsword would do 3d6+1K (Average 12 Body, 24Stun). Neither attack changes damage type.

[Lucius]

The other Palindromedary is still stunned so no need to waste a bullet on it. I take out my Trusty Palidromedary Plucker, a 1d6 KA dagger I always carry around, and head on over to put the poor beast out of my misery. He is just standing there dazed there so hitting him isn't hard. Now, one thing to note, I have been hunting Palindromedaries for years now so I have a STR of 15. My dagger is a melee weapon, built with a Hand to Hand Killing Attack so I get to add my Strength. 15 STR adds 1d6 to killing attacks so my Dagger also does 2d6 Killing Damage when I hit with it. I roll the dice and get a 2 and a 3 for 5 Body, and this time only get a 1 on my d3 StunX die. So I do 5 Body and 5 Stun. Again there is no rPD so I do the full 5 points to the Stunned beast and put him at 0 Body. If I leave him alone he will slowly bleed out and die unless someone comes along to help him. The 5 Stun i did is reduced by his PD to only 3 Stun (the fact that he was Stunned has no effect on his PD normally) so he is now at 1 Stun. Oddly enough while he is still bleeding to death he is fully conscious (if rather dazed till he can recover from being Stunned) and will likely start screaming out for help.

 

PalindromedaryA: Actually, I was already at -5 STUN, so while still standing I am "out on my feet" and unaware of my impending doom. The STUN damage of 5 is therefore doubled to 10. This has nothing to do with the attack being a Killing Attack: any attack that does STUN will double the STUN damage if the target is already under zero STUN. I still subtract my PD of 2 from that, and take 8 STUN. This brings my STUN total to -13, so my legs give way. I am now unconscious and dying. Good thing I'm expendable.

 

[Greywind]

The other Palindromedary is still stunned so no need to waste a bullet on it. I take out my Trusty Palidromedary Plucker, a 1d6 KA dagger I always carry around, and head on over to put the poor beast out of my misery. He is just standing there dazed there so hitting him isn't hard. Now, one thing to note, I have been hunting Palindromedaries for years now so I have a STR of 15. My dagger is a melee weapon, built with a Hand to Hand Killing Attack so I get to add my Strength. 15 STR adds 1d6 to killing attacks so my Dagger also does 2d6 Killing Damage when I hit with it. I roll the dice and get a 2 and a 3 for 5 Body, and this time only get a 1 on my d3 StunX die. So I do 5 Body and 5 Stun. Again there is no rPD so I do the full 5 points to the Stunned beast and put him at 0 Body. If I leave him alone he will slowly bleed out and die unless someone comes along to help him. The 5 Stun i did is reduced by his PD to only 3 Stun (the fact that he was Stunned has no effect on his PD normally) so he is now at 1 Stun. Oddly enough while he is still bleeding to death he is fully conscious (if rather dazed till he can recover from being Stunned) and will likely start screaming out for help.

 

PalindromedaryA: Actually, I was already at -5 STUN, so while still standing I am "out on my feet" and unaware of my impending doom. The STUN damage of 5 is therefore doubled to 10. This has nothing to do with the attack being a Killing Attack: any attack that does STUN will double the STUN damage if the target is already under zero STUN. I still subtract my PD of 2 from that, and take 8 STUN. This brings my STUN total to -13, so my legs give way. I am now unconscious and dying. Good thing I'm expendable.

There's an opening in The Expendables 3.

[psyber624]

The other Palindromedary is still stunned so no need to waste a bullet on it. I take out my Trusty Palidromedary Plucker, a 1d6 KA dagger I always carry around, and head on over to put the poor beast out of my misery. He is just standing there dazed there so hitting him isn't hard. Now, one thing to note, I have been hunting Palindromedaries for years now so I have a STR of 15. My dagger is a melee weapon, built with a Hand to Hand Killing Attack so I get to add my Strength. 15 STR adds 1d6 to killing attacks so my Dagger also does 2d6 Killing Damage when I hit with it. I roll the dice and get a 2 and a 3 for 5 Body, and this time only get a 1 on my d3 StunX die. So I do 5 Body and 5 Stun. Again there is no rPD so I do the full 5 points to the Stunned beast and put him at 0 Body. If I leave him alone he will slowly bleed out and die unless someone comes along to help him. The 5 Stun i did is reduced by his PD to only 3 Stun (the fact that he was Stunned has no effect on his PD normally) so he is now at 1 Stun. Oddly enough while he is still bleeding to death he is fully conscious (if rather dazed till he can recover from being Stunned) and will likely start screaming out for help.

 

PalindromedaryA: Actually, I was already at -5 STUN, so while still standing I am "out on my feet" and unaware of my impending doom. The STUN damage of 5 is therefore doubled to 10. This has nothing to do with the attack being a Killing Attack: any attack that does STUN will double the STUN damage if the target is already under zero STUN. I still subtract my PD of 2 from that, and take 8 STUN. This brings my STUN total to -13, so my legs give way. I am now unconscious and dying. Good thing I'm expendable.

DOH! missed that part, darnit!!!! And when did you discover my secret identity of psycho624? Now I have to spend XP to buy off that limitation when I was planning on saving that for a new Palindromedary Skinning Knife 3000!

[Lucius]

How did I get down to PalindromedaryC already? Never mind.

 

Theros: I know you've been playing and running games for a long time so this is not news, but some things bear repeating. If you are running the game, then just because there are two Powers in the book for Killing Attacks, that doesn't mean you have to use them. You don't have to give Killing Attacks to any character nor do you have to allow a player to take them. And just because a table in a book lists a knife or gun as a Killing Attack, doesn't mean you have to use them that way.

 

Now we come to one of the uses of Damage Classes. If you're running a comic book campaign, obviously there will be thugs with knives and guns (otherwise how do superheroes show off by bouncing bullets off their chest?) And a lot of published characters have Killing Attacks. What do you do? You convert those Killing Attacks into Normal Attacks. For example, here's an OAF (Obvious Accessible Focus) someone dropped: A knife with a 1d6 Killing Attack. Since I am the Dungeon Master, or Game Operations Director, or whatever term you use, in this post, I can declare "No Killing Attacks!" and convert it to an equivalent Normal Attack: 3d6. If you don't understand that, speak up. Now let's stab the palindromedary.

 

PalindromedaryC: I watch the dice come up 3, 4, 3. That's 3 BOD. My PD stops 2, so I take 1 BOD, a minimal wound leaving me at 5 BOD. That's a total of 10 STUN. My PD stops 2, so I take 8 STUN. My characteristics are the same as PalindromedaryA and B, so my STUN total is 2. I am stunned, but not yet unconscious. Post Segement 12 I get a Recovery, so my STUN total rises to 4. Like that will help.

 

Because the knife was a Hand to Hand Killing Attack, I converted it to a Hand to Hand Attack (by definition, Normal damage.) The Hand to Hand Killing Attack and the Hand to Hand Attack have some important things in common: both do STUN, both do BOD, and both can have STR damage added to them. I'm not exerting myself much, so I'll just add 5 of my STR (save on the END cost) to add one Damage Class. If it were a 1d6 Killing Attack, that would make it 1d6 +1; since it's a 3d6 Normal Attack, it's now a 4d6 Normal Attack.

 

PalindromedaryC: The roll is 6, 6, 2, 3. That does 6 BOD, my PD stops 2, I take another 4 BOD and my current BOD score is 0. I think 0 is also my chances of surviving this. That's also 17 STUN, my PD stops 2, so 15 gets through. My STUN total was 4 so it's now -11. Because I took more STUN damage than my CON score, I would be stunned, but being stunned doesn't really matter if you're unconscious anyway. Not only that, but now we deal with something peculiar to the superheroic version of the rules; Knockback. I haven't been mentioning it because the BOD damage done has been so low, but now is a good time to bring it up. For Normal Attacks, I roll 2d6 and subtract from the BOD damage done. I roll a 4, so I get 2. If I'd rolled 6 or higher, I'd do no knockback. As it is, I double the knockback number of 2 to find out how many meters the target is knocked back: 4 meters. PalindromedaryD is only 3 meters away, so I knock PalindromedaryC into PalindromedaryD.

 

PalindromedaryD; Hey, watch where you're pushing palindromedaries around! Now we both have to take half the number of meters of knockback you did as Normal Damage. Or to put it another way, we take the "knockback number" (the result of subtracting the 2d6 from the amount of BOD done) in dice of Normal Damage.

 

PalindromedaryC: And since I was already knocked out, I double the STUN. Lucius rolls 2d6 for the damage, getting 4 and 2. Our PD stops the BOD, but that 6 STUN doubles to 12, my PD stops 2, so I go down another 10 STUN to -21 STUN. With my REC of 2, I'm not getting up for a while. Unless someone gives me medical attention, I'm probably dead.

 

PalindromedaryD: I only take the 6 STUN, minus 2 for my PD, so I'm down by 4 STUN. But since someone was knocked back into me, I'm on the ground.

 

And lucky you, demonstration is over for now. You can Recover on segment 7 and then post segment 12 and be good as new. Then you should start using your Everypalindromedary Skill of Paramedics on PalindromedaryC. I might call you back for another demonstration.

 

Please note that Knockback is an option: You don't have to use it. But lots of people who want to play superheroes like to see the bodies fly around.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

PalindromedaryD: Don't call us, we'll call you.

[bigbywolfe]

.You convert those Killing Attacks into Normal Attacks. For example, here's an OAF (Obvious Accessible Focus) someone dropped: A knife with a 1d6 Killing Attack. Since I am the Dungeon Master, or Game Operations Director, or whatever term you use, in this post, I can declare "No Killing Attacks!" and convert it to an equivalent Normal Attack: 3d6. If you don't understand that, speak up. Now let's stab the palindromedary. PalindromedaryC: I watch the dice come up 3, 4, 3. That's 3 BOD. My PD stops 2, so I take 1 BOD, a minimal wound leaving me at 5 BOD. Lucius rolls a stun multiplier die of 1d3 and gets 2, so that's 6 STUN because 2*3 is 6. My PD stops 2, so I take 4 STUN. My characteristics are the same as PalindromedaryA and B, so my STUN total is 6. I am not stunned, nor am I unconscious. I could still take actions on my next phase except that my role in this demonstration is to be a passive victim and anyway I don't get an action until Segment 7. I'd abort my action to Dodge, if I thought it would help. Post Segement 12 I get a Recovery, so my STUN total rises to 8. Like that will help.

An I missing something or did you just count Normal Body but use the Killing Stun Multiplier? Now I'm confused. Am I on crazy pills? Maybe if we drop the cutesy narrations and stick to actually explaining the mechanic we won't confuse him (and me it seems) even more (I notice he hasn't responded in a while).

[Lucius]

An I missing something or did you just count Normal Body but use the Killing Stun Multiplier? Now I'm confused. Am I on crazy pills? Maybe if we drop the cutesy narrations and stick to actually explaining the mechanic we won't confuse him (and me it seems) even more (I notice he hasn't responded in a while).

 

You're right. I seem to have confused myself.

 

edit: Also potentially confusing is my reference to "converting" from Killing to Normal. To try to be clearer, that's not something a player can normally do, I'm referring to a decision on the part of the person running the game that there just aren't going to BE any Killing Attacks, so they all have to be treated as "equivalent" Normal Attacks.

 

edit: Corrected the error

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedaries think I've done enough damage

[Theros]

This needs a lot of training to get combat flow fluently...and funny...only think that worries me is damage...mixture of those...

[L. Marcus]

This needs a lot of training to get combat flow fluently...and funny...only think that worries me is damage...mixture of those...

A I understood it, you're the one to GM, right? To make things easier, just say that all damage should be Normal Damage except for when absolutely needed for the concept of a certain Power. Less hassle. ^^

[Theros]

Yes I will be GM. I try to do things that way. Thanks!

[Greywind]

Good luck.

[docdoom77]

Maybe if we turn it around and look at it from the point of view of someone TAKING damage, it will give a different perspective. Let's ask the palindromedary as I do it some damage.

 

Palindromedary: Hey! Why are you picking on me?

 

Because you're the most socially acceptable victim available. Besides, it's not like you aren't going to create a batch of those expendable duplicates.

 

Palindromedary: Oh, right.

 

(As the palindromedary begins duplicating itself several times over by the expedient of running in both directions at once and thus putting itself simultaneously in two different places, then four, then eight, etc, Lucius hangs a big sign from the ceiling.)

The Adventures of Lucius Alexander and the SUPERpalindromedary!

The world's 5,692nd Greatest Comics Magazine!

by Palindromedary Periodicals

 

There, now we're under "Superheroic" rules. Simpler in some ways but with a complication or two. Let's look at our first volunteer.

 

Palindromedary A: Well Lucius, I have CON 5, STUN 10, BOD 5, PD 2, ED 2, REC 2....what else do you want to know?

 

Tell me how I can hurt you...what kind of damage I might do?

 

Palindromedary A: I might take STUN damage, which can stun me - meaning I lose a phase - or knock me unconscious, meaning I'm unaware of the environment and unable to act until recovering consciousness. And I might take BODy damage, which can injure me or even kill me.

 

Let's go around to the other end of the palindromedary and get a second opinion from the other head. Tell me, what kind of damage might you take?

 

Palindromedary A (other head) : I can take physical damage, such as you hitting me with your fist; I can stop some of that with my Physical Defense (PD.) Or I can take energy damage, if you hit me with lightning or try to set fire to me; I can stop some of that with my Energy Defense (ED.) And then there's mental damage...

 

Let's leave the mental out of this for now.

 

Palindromdary A: You often do, Lucius

 

Ahem. As usual, the palindromedary is right at both ends. Damage can be characterized by what defends against it, or by what kind of "hit points" it makes you lose. BUT, if you make ED and PD equal, as the palindromedary has, you really don't even have to worry about that distinction, a great way to simplify the game. Tell me, do you really care if I use a physical or energy attack?

 

Palindromedary A: Not really Lucius, it will hurt the same either way. I'm more worried about if you'll beat me into unconsciousness, which I'll eventually wake up from, or seriously wound me, which takes time to heal.

 

Since almost EVERY attack does both STUN and BOD, there's no reason I can't do both. But note that because this particular palindromedary has a REC of 2, at the end of every Turn, and every time it stops to "Recover" - basically catch its breath and rest for just a few seconds - it will get back 2 STUN, so it can lose all its STUN and be back to normal quickly. If deeply unconscious a character recovers STUN more slowly, but still much faster than they recover BODy. It takes a whole month to get back your RECovery score in BODy points!

 

Time to hit the palindromedary!

 

Palindromedary A: I hope he rolls an 18 on the to hit roll.

 

I'm not punching very hard, so I'm only rolling 2d6 for damage. I get a 3 and a 5. That's a total of 8 STUN and 2 BOD. If this is going too fast for you, stop me and ask questions.

 

Palindromedary A: That's 2 BOD, but my PD is 2, so it stops all of it and I'm not injured. So I'm okay on that score. But that's 8 STUN and my PD only stops 2 so I take 6 STUN from my STUN score and have STUN of 4 now. Worse, 6 STUN is great than my CON of 5. I'm stunned!

 

You can just stand there and look dazed for a phase then. Your DCV is halved and you can take no actions until your next phase, when your only action is "recover from being stunned!"

But since combat usually begins on Segment 12, and you get a Post-Segment 12 Recovery, you can add 2 points to your STUN total now.

 

Palindromedary A: My STUN is now 6. Since I'm just an expendable duplicate palindromedary I only have SPD 1, so I don't even get to recover from being stunned until Segment 7. Do I look as dazed as I feel?

 

Sure do. I'm going to hit you with a stick now. Even under superheroic rules I don't have to pay points for an improvised weapon, and I found this stick conveniently lying around. It's going to add 2d6 to my Normal STR damage. I roll 4d6 and get 1, 5, 4, and 3. That's 13 STUN and 3 BOD.

 

Palindromedary A: My PD stops 2 pts of BOD, so I only take 1 BOD. My current BOD is now 4. My PD stops 2 pts of the 13 STUN, so I subtract 11 from my STUN score of 6, so I'm at -5 STUN.

 

Note that the palindromedary is still on its feet - that's because it's not yet to -10 STUN, so it's barely awake but not able to move or act.

 

That describes me right now, it's midnight here. I'm going to stop here and pick up again another time.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Kind of superfluous in this post, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

This was awesome. Informative and entertaining. Thanks.