Shadowfield

[Lord Mhoram]

First character for 6E. Translating a character from an older edition, and I don't use 6E so I am not really familiar with it (the GM is).

 

The character has a shadowy field that he can turn on and off (at will so it isn't normally an attack action) that has a -2 perception and a negative effect on CV orignally a -2 to OCV and DCV. I have personal immunity - but if allies are in the area they get the penalties - so it becomes much less useful in the midst of a melee.

 

 

I didn't see Change Environment in 6E has an effect on CV.

 

Any ideas appreciated.

[bigbywolfe]

I was under the impression Change Environment could do everything it could in prior editions (or at least in 5E). Perhaps now that OCV and DCV are considered Characteristics the option to effect "Characteristic Roll and all Skill Rolls based on same Characteristic" would apply? I know DCV doesn't actually have a roll, but OCV does...

[Asperion]

Change Environment is in 6e on page 174. There is an effects chart on page 176 that lists several abilities CE can do and their associated costs. As written in 6e, CE does not automatically effect an area so you will need to apply that advantage to make it area affecting. This is the way that you describe this power -

 

PER-2/OCV-2/DCV-2: 16m Raduis (+3/4); Personal Immun (+1/4) (18 Base Cost/36 Real Cost)

 

If you desire, you could give him the No Range lim (-1/4) bringing the cost to 29 points but that will mean that every time that he activates the power it will be centered on him, but with the PI that will not be any problem.

[Lord Mhoram]

That was the idea I was thinking - it would have no range, and centered on him. If he moves would it move with him, and not affect him.

 

The GM was saying that CE didn't actually effect CV, and I'd need a "usable against other" like an old negative skill level, which is what confused me. I figured it was a 6E change.

 

Not trying to go against the GM - it's his game - I just didn't think I was that off.

[bigbywolfe]

Well 6E doesn't specify that CE works on CV but it doesn't forbid it either and the list presented is just examples.

 

I would be surprised if he let it effect DCV for only 4 points though. As a Defensive Power it would take 3-4d6 of Drain to consistently drop 1 DCV (depending on if you are using Standard Effect or not).

There's a thought, what about using the Suppress version of Drain and linking it to the Change Environment. That is probably the most book legal way to do it and should satisfy your GM.

[Greywind]

Buy Darkness, No Range, Personal Immunity, stipulate that it moves with the character, and then nobody can see through it.

[Lord Mhoram]

Buy Darkness, No Range, Personal Immunity, stipulate that it moves with the character, and then nobody can see through it.

That is later, the character can't do a full darkness yet.

[Christopher]

Well 6E doesn't specify that CE works on CV but it doesn't forbid it either and the list presented is just examples.

 

I would be surprised if he let it effect DCV for only 4 points though. As a Defensive Power it would take 3-4d6 of Drain to consistently drop 1 DCV (depending on if you are using Standard Effect or not).

There's a thought, what about using the Suppress version of Drain and linking it to the Change Environment. That is probably the most book legal way to do it and should satisfy your GM.

Supress doesn't seem right here. It isn't actually lowering OCV or DCV. In imposes an Environmental Penalty on it (that can be overcome by Special Senses and PSL). So CE could be the cleaner way.

 

 

About "Darkness, No Range, Personal Immunity":

Once you have the full effect, you can limit it to have a lesser effect.

If you have a Transform to take away a power, you can limit it to only take the Inaccesible Focus providing it (Speedster Armor Dismantle).

 

 

I think I see the biggest problem: Poor light does not affect the Chairacter CV that directly.

6E2 142 "Darkness" says about poor light Conditions:

-2 too -4 Sight PER Roll penalties.

There is no CV penality, "but the GM may want characters to make PER Rolls each Phase to determine what they can accurately perceive, and impose non-perception penalties (6E2 7) if they

fail."

Granted this is a superheroic game and things don't always have to follow what the "Environmental Effects" Section of 6E2 says.

[psyber624]

The negative effect on CV would be a side effect of the negative to perception (if they failed their perception roll then they are 1/2 OCV/DCV at melee or 0 OCV/1/2 DCV at range). Adding OCV/DCV penalties on top of that (through Suppress) would make your "shadow field" even more powerful than the normal Darkness power on a failed Perception roll. I would either change it to an OCV/DCV Suppression field (if you want a small combat penalty to be applied at all times) instead (and leave off the perception penalty, unless you instead made it a compound power with bonuses to Stealth). That prevents it from being more powerful than Darkness.

 

You might also look at the adding -1 to the range modifier option for CE. That will give you an effective - to OCV for ranged attacks even if they succeed in their perception roll.. Melee and DCV would still be about failing the perception roll and have no modifiers (but given the nature of the two that seems flavorful. If anything being inside of a Shadow Field would make you HARDER to hit, not easier, vs people outside of it.)

[Lucius]

If reduce everyone's OCV by 2 and everyone's DCV by 2, you have a power worth zero points because it has no effect.

 

If I have to roll a 12 or less because my OCV is 7 and my target's DCV is 6, I still have to roll that same 12 or less if my OCV becomes 5 and the target's becomes 4. Such a power would have no point and therefore cost no points.

 

Now, if you reduce EVERYONE ELSE's combat values EXCEPT YOUR OWN, you have effected a noticeable change in your favor. You have put yourself 2 OCV and 2 DCV higher compared to everyone else than you would otherwise be.

 

So in addition to the Change Environment that imposes Perception penalties, you want +2 OCV and +2 DCV for yourself, perhaps Linked to the Change Environment or Limited to only vs characters in the field.

 

edit: For example

The Shadow Falls: (Total: 32 Active Cost, 24 Real Cost) Change Environment: Who goes where evil lurks? The Shadow goes! (-2 to Sight Group PER Rolls), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius Explosion; +1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (12 Active Points); No Range (-1/2) (Real Cost: 8) plus +2 OCV I will fight in the shade (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs those in the shadow (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus +2 DCV The shadow my shield (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs those in the shadow (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

So easy even a palindromedary can do it.

[Christopher]

If reduce everyone's OCV by 2 and everyone's DCV by 2, you have a power worth zero points because it has no effect.

 

If I have to roll a 12 or less because my OCV is 7 and my target's DCV is 6, I still have to roll that same 12 or less if my OCV becomes 5 and the target's becomes 4. Such a power would have no point and therefore cost no points.

 

Now, if you reduce EVERYONE ELSE's combat values EXCEPT YOUR OWN, you have effected a noticeable change in your favor. You have put yourself 2 OCV and 2 DCV higher compared to everyone else than you would otherwise be.

Personal Immunity is noted in the Opening Post.

 

If the enemies have -2/-2 it is slightly better then him having +2/+2 (because the positive modifier could be halved to ignored by 1/2 or 0 CV effects modifiers)

[psyber624]

If reduce everyone's OCV by 2 and everyone's DCV by 2, you have a power worth zero points because it has no effect.

 

If I have to roll a 12 or less because my OCV is 7 and my target's DCV is 6, I still have to roll that same 12 or less if my OCV becomes 5 and the target's becomes 4. Such a power would have no point and therefore cost no points.

 

Now, if you reduce EVERYONE ELSE's combat values EXCEPT YOUR OWN, you have effected a noticeable change in your favor. You have put yourself 2 OCV and 2 DCV higher compared to everyone else than you would otherwise be.

Personal Immunity is noted in the Opening Post.

 

If the enemies have -2/-2 it is slightly better then him having +2/+2 (because the positive modifier could be halved to ignored by 1/2 or 0 CV effects modifiers)

Not to mention that -2/-2 helps his teammates out (if they have a way of combatting it, are outside the field, whatever). +2/+2 only helps him.

[bigbywolfe]

If reduce everyone's OCV by 2 and everyone's DCV by 2, you have a power worth zero points because it has no effect.

 

If I have to roll a 12 or less because my OCV is 7 and my target's DCV is 6, I still have to roll that same 12 or less if my OCV becomes 5 and the target's becomes 4. Such a power would have no point and therefore cost no points.

 

Now, if you reduce EVERYONE ELSE's combat values EXCEPT YOUR OWN, you have effected a noticeable change in your favor. You have put yourself 2 OCV and 2 DCV higher compared to everyone else than you would otherwise be.

 

So in addition to the Change Environment that imposes Perception penalties, you want +2 OCV and +2 DCV for yourself, perhaps Linked to the Change Environment or Limited to only vs characters in the field.

 

edit: For example

The Shadow Falls: (Total: 32 Active Cost, 24 Real Cost) Change Environment: Who goes where evil lurks? The Shadow goes! (-2 to Sight Group PER Rolls), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius Explosion; +1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (12 Active Points); No Range (-1/2) (Real Cost: 8) plus +2 OCV I will fight in the shade (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs those in the shadow (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus +2 DCV The shadow my shield (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs those in the shadow (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

So easy even a palindromedary can do it.

The character has a shadowy field that he can turn on and off (at will so it isn't normally an attack action) that has a -2 perception and a negative effect on CV orignally a -2 to OCV and DCV. I have personal immunity - but if allies are in the area they get the penalties - so it becomes much less useful in the midst of a melee.

 

Dealt with in the OP

[Lord Mhoram]

If reduce everyone's OCV by 2 and everyone's DCV by 2, you have a power worth zero points because it has no effect.

 

If I have to roll a 12 or less because my OCV is 7 and my target's DCV is 6, I still have to roll that same 12 or less if my OCV becomes 5 and the target's becomes 4. Such a power would have no point and therefore cost no points.

 

Now, if you reduce EVERYONE ELSE's combat values EXCEPT YOUR OWN, you have effected a noticeable change in your favor. You have put yourself 2 OCV and 2 DCV higher compared to everyone else than you would otherwise be.

Personal Immunity is noted in the Opening Post.

 

If the enemies have -2/-2 it is slightly better then him having +2/+2 (because the positive modifier could be halved to ignored by 1/2 or 0 CV effects modifiers)

Yeah - and if the teammates are in the field and the badguys all leave - then the -2/-2 is a hindrance to the team.

[Christopher]

"Not to mention that -2/-2 helps his teammates out (if they have a way of combatting it, are outside the field, whatever). +2/+2 only helps him."

"Yeah - and if the teammates are in the field and the badguys all leave - then the -2/-2 is a hindrance to the team."

 

That is not how it should work. The rule should be closer to a Darkness field:

Anyone that tries to act inside it, from the inside to the outside, from the outside to the inside and even everyone shooting through it should be affected - unless he makes the throw or has a targetting sense to compensate.

I think AoE Supression could be used like that - affecting even things passing through. Maybe a Supress NDD (any alterantive Targetting Sense)?

Or you really just take a Darkness vs Sight (not whole Sight group) and limit it to "Only like very poor light (-4 to Sight), but forces PER roll to no act like blindness"

[bigbywolfe]

"Not to mention that -2/-2 helps his teammates out (if they have a way of combatting it, are outside the field, whatever). +2/+2 only helps him."

"Yeah - and if the teammates are in the field and the badguys all leave - then the -2/-2 is a hindrance to the team."

 

That is not how it should work. The rule should be closer to a Darkness field:

Anyone that tries to act inside it, from the inside to the outside, from the outside to the inside and even everyone shooting through it should be affected - unless he makes the throw or has a targetting sense to compensate.

I think AoE Supression could be used like that - affecting even things passing through. Maybe a Supress NDD (any alterantive Targetting Sense)?

Or you really just take a Darkness vs Sight (not whole Sight group) and limit it to "Only like very poor light (-4 to Sight), but forces PER roll to no act like blindness"

I suggested Suppress 5 days ago and you said it "didn't seem right"...

[Christopher]

"Not to mention that -2/-2 helps his teammates out (if they have a way of combatting it, are outside the field, whatever). +2/+2 only helps him."

"Yeah - and if the teammates are in the field and the badguys all leave - then the -2/-2 is a hindrance to the team."

 

That is not how it should work. The rule should be closer to a Darkness field:

Anyone that tries to act inside it, from the inside to the outside, from the outside to the inside and even everyone shooting through it should be affected - unless he makes the throw or has a targetting sense to compensate.

I think AoE Supression could be used like that - affecting even things passing through. Maybe a Supress NDD (any alterantive Targetting Sense)?

Or you really just take a Darkness vs Sight (not whole Sight group) and limit it to "Only like very poor light (-4 to Sight), but forces PER roll to no act like blindness"

Even from me it doesn't sound quite right. I am jsut throwing out ideas.

 

The undoubtedly best would be limited Darkness. But it also hard to figure out the value for it.