SF Rant

[tkdguy]

I agree. You have to take advancements in technology into account, but it can still be considered hard science fiction if there are plausible explanations for those advancements.

[Vondy]

I was building a science fiction character and realized I'd run afoul of this thread.

 

Two words: jump fighter.

[tkdguy]

Jump fighter?

[Vondy]

Jump fighter?

 

A star fighter with a jump drive. 

 

Two things hard science fiction fans love to bitch-rant about.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Quote buttons still broken. *sigh*

 

Conjecture at this point is useless to anyone who's not planning on writing a SciFi novel (or running a Star Hero campaign that is set in the near future).

 

PaycheckHero: I recognize your logic and can see your perspective. However, I maintain my opinion that the military Space Force be a hybrid of Navy and Airforce. I don't see JFCC wasting trained personel from either branch. Both branches have their strengths and weaknesses. Just like SOCOM uses troops from Army, Marine, SEAL, and Paratroopers, I foresee Starfleet (or whatever its called) taking the best and the brightest Officers and NCO's from each branch.

 

Cancer: That was my argument against missile use in space-to-space combat. I have a sneaking suspicion that space-combat will be ships closing to Knife-fighting range and facing off a few-hundred meters like old wet-navy combat. Plasma-lances and Rail-guns. Short range. Both ships would get corn-cobbed. But it would be who could corn-cob who faster and harder that would decide the battle.

Or they could use extremely powerful beam weaponry and fight at ranges measured in Light Seconds as opposted to close range to shoot each other with slow moving guns and missiles.

[tkdguy]

My campaign is near future and ballistic weapon-based, so railguns and missiles at relatively close range is the rule. Beam weapons would probably make an appearance in campaigns set further in the future.

[Old Man]

A star fighter with a jump drive. 

 

Two things hard science fiction fans love to bitch-rant about.

 

 

Jump-capable fighters mainly exist or don't exist depending on whether it is important to the author to have aircraft-carrier equivalent spacecraft in the milieu.  I don't rant about that.  I rant about the silliness of space fighters in general. 

 

 

My campaign is near future and ballistic weapon-based, so railguns and missiles at relatively close range is the rule. Beam weapons would probably make an appearance in campaigns set further in the future.

 

I think laser weapons are, finally, right around the corner IRL.  They will first be deployed as anti-missile defenses but will radically change air combat, and will become very important in any space combat scenario for time-to-target reasons.

[Vondy]

Jump-capable fighters mainly exist or don't exist depending on whether it is important to the author to have aircraft-carrier equivalent spacecraft in the milieu.  I don't rant about that.  I rant about the silliness of space fighters in general. 

 

 

In this case, its about the ability to have a gunslinging colonial cop and their android partner deploy rapidly on the far frontier lone-ranger style. It could just be called a "quickship," I guess.

 

I just chalk space fighters up to "cool" and "fun" rather than "logic" and "science."

 

[L. Marcus]

In gaming, that's what matters.

[Tasha]

In gaming, that's what matters.

"Rule of Cool" FTW!

[tkdguy]

I mostly dropped space fighters, although some space stations have a squadron or two for limited, short range actions. There are lots of unmanned drones in my settings, however. As for lasers, going with ballistic weaponry was a design choice for my campaign. While I have been keeping track of the military's development of lasers, I decided they have been done to death already in SF. And since I was using Firefly, the new BSG, and Cowboy Bebop as my influences, I decided that railguns and coilguns were the way to go. Also, this TV series had slugthrowers (but no space combat) long before any of the three aforementioned shows came along.

[Vondy]

I mostly dropped space fighters, although some space stations have a squadron or two for limited, short range actions. There are lots of unmanned drones in my settings, however. As for lasers, going with ballistic weaponry was a design choice for my campaign. While I have been keeping track of the military's development of lasers, I decided they have been done to death already in SF. And since I was using Firefly, the new BSG, and Cowboy Bebop as my influences, I decided that railguns and coilguns were the way to go. Also, this TV series had slugthrowers (but no space combat) long before any of the three aforementioned shows came along.

 

Well, you mean before the BSG reboot, right?

[tkdguy]

Well, you mean before the BSG reboot, right?

Yes, the new BSG = the reboot. Another way that show inspired me is to re-imagine some of my old characters from other games, like my FASA Trek characters, and put them in this campaign.

[NuSoardGraphite]

My campaign is near future and ballistic weapon-based, so railguns and missiles at relatively close range is the rule. Beam weapons would probably make an appearance in campaigns set further in the future.

agreed.

 

It used to surprise me how many proponents of "Hard sci-fi" used to poo-poo beam weaponry as rubber science.  We've known they were possible for nigh on half a century.  They just require more efficient power sources to be made viable.  And those power sources will come along at some point.  Both Lasers and Particle Weaponry are real science that are likely to make an appearance as weapon systems at some point in the near future (50 years?  100 years?)

[tkdguy]

Here's another sticking point. Almost all SF shows tend to be military shows, Doctor Who being a notable exception (and even that has its share of military stuff). There is more to SF than space battles, although most folks, myself included, enjoy them. Then again, it provides a reason for the characters to stick together.

 

I can do other things with my campaign. A friend said colonists won't have any reason to step off the planet. They don't need too; there are lots of challenges involved in creating a successful colony in a hostile environment. The problem is, most players won't be satisfied with that. They want excitement, which to them means going into combat. So I'll have to concede that point and give the players a scenario with a fair of firefights.

 

Maybe I' just trying to do too much with the campaign. I'll admit I first thought of it as a game for space battles. But I wanted a complete setting, so I developed a lot of details, which in turn opened up more possibilities for the campaign. Unfortunately, most of those will never see the light of day, at least in my game.

[Vondy]

As much as I love the Jovian Chronicles, which has a native focus on military science fiction, the civilian side of the game is robust and rich -- and the setting has worked better as a vehicle for roleplaying and storytelling when I don't focus on the military. The SolaPol game I ran was more interesting and sustainable than mech-pilots, fighter-jocks, and naval battles in vacuum. One of the reasons Star Trek worked was, despite having space-battles, it was really a show about other things -- exploration, characters, social issues cast in a different context. It was "wagon train in space." And, Firefly was really "the old west in space." And B5 was "the united nations" and "religious crusades and prophecies" in space. And, the military science fiction that does work doesn't work because of "cool space battles" -- which are really just leavening. They work because of the human drama and moral questions that accompany it during war. The BSG reboot worked because it made people invest in the characters, their survival, and the decisions they made to obtain it. Cool space battles was just to ratchet up the tension. I think military science fiction writers get off easy in many ways because they often don't have to think over-much about the broader society their wars unfold in. They focus on the fraternity of warriors and the technology the employ. Its often a man-in-a-foxhole view of the setting, rather than a full-fledged and nuanced view of a future society as a whole.

[tkdguy]

The problem with my current group would be what they'd like to play. They have no problems with D&D; their characters' motivation for adventuring  is gaining fame and fortune. Go to another genre, and they don't know what will motivate their characters. I ran a game with them as police detectives on Earth investigating contraband smugglers. They could have gone to the Moon to continue their adventures, but they decided to pass on the investigation to the authorities there instead.

 

My old group was more open to exploring other options. We played in a couple of SF campaigns. In one, we were mobsters in a space station. In the other (I think it only lasted one game), we were Cowboy Bebop style bounty hunters. I can't recall any aliens or lasers in either one. There wasn't much combat in either campaign; that won't sit well with a couple of my current players.

[BlueCloud2k2]

One option for having colonists "not step off of the planet" could be previously undiscovered Mega-Fauna that live underground.
 
 

Colonial governor: "Someone is sabotaging our mining operations. Go into the tunnels and ferret out these spies!"
 
Some time later...
 
"Oh ye flipping gods what the hell is that!"
 
"Kill them, kill them all!"
 
"Maroni? Shelldon? Where the hell did you - ahhhhh!!!!!"

 

[tkdguy]

Or just have Hannibal Lector running around in a colony.

[NuSoardGraphite]

In any sci-fi game, there should be plenty to do besides space battles: exploring alien worlds, setting up colonies, investigating alien artifacts, analyzing space anomalies, engaging in diplomacy with alien races or hostile political entities, hunting interplanetary fugitives, administering medicine to outlying frontier colonies, hunting pirates....the possibilities are literally endless, and everyone i mentioned has the potential for excitement and combat in some scenarios.

[tkdguy]

All good ideas. No aliens in my current campaign, but it's definitely a thought for the next one. My players aren't interested in politics or diplomacy, unfortunately, so those games are out. I could have them play a group of investigators, at least for a one-shot game.

[Tasha]

The problem with my current group would be what they'd like to play. They have no problems with D&D; their characters' motivation for adventuring  is gaining fame and fortune. Go to another genre, and they don't know what will motivate their characters. I ran a game with them as police detectives on Earth investigating contraband smugglers. They could have gone to the Moon to continue their adventures, but they decided to pass on the investigation to the authorities there instead.

 

My old group was more open to exploring other options. We played in a couple of SF campaigns. In one, we were mobsters in a space station. In the other (I think it only lasted one game), we were Cowboy Bebop style bounty hunters. I can't recall any aliens or lasers in either one. There wasn't much combat in either campaign; that won't sit well with a couple of my current players.

In my experience Players tend to like to stick to a single genre. So if they are playing cops on a planet, they usually want to stick with that scope.

[Tasha]

All good ideas. No aliens in my current campaign, but it's definitely a thought for the next one. My players aren't interested in politics or diplomacy, unfortunately, so those games are out. I could have them play a group of investigators, at least for a one-shot game.

 

They can't get excited about a Firefly kind of game where they do odd jobs (sometimes on the wrong side of the law) and travel from planet to planet like some shows move from city to city?

[Xavier Onassiss]

One option for having colonists "not step off of the planet" could be previously undiscovered Mega-Fauna that live underground.

 

 

 

Another option: the colony gets invaded. This theme occurred repeatedly in my last Star Hero campaign. And I've got several convention adventures which take place on space colonies in occupied territory. All of the action is confined to the colony; no space travel necessary. It doesn't even have to be a "military" campaign as such. A lot of the aforementioned adventures involve espionage, bounty hunters, and other civilian activities.

[Vondy]

In my experience Players tend to like to stick to a single genre. So if they are playing cops on a planet, they usually want to stick with that scope.

 

This is generally true in my experience, as well. However, if you set up your law enforcement agency correctly, you could broaden the themes beyond "investigate crime" and "cops and robbers." A frontier gendarmerie or marshal's service would be flexible enough that the players would still feel they are "doing their jobs" and "being cops" while doing some things beyond the "cop show" scope.