[5th Edition] Stretching as "Chi Blast" What would be your call?

[phoenix240]

One of my PCs built his characters Hard Chi Projection (think Haudoken from Streetfighter) as:

 

Stretching: Only to do Damage, Always Direct, Gestures and Incantations.

 

The Special effect is that she casts her blows across space using her spiritual energy. What would be your call if this character used her attack on a creature with a Damage Shield type ability like acid skin? What if to reach its target her "Stretching" had to pass through a harmful area like a fire or other Area of Effect? Could her "Stretching" phantom limb be attacked?

[Hyper-Man]

That is the downfall of using Stretching for this type of sfx.  If the player doesn't want to deal with the consequences of Damage Shields then they should build the ranged attack via Energy Blast and just define it as physical instead of energy damage.

[Christougher]

Yes, the character takes damage in those cases.  That's why the power is Stretching, not Energy Blast or Telekinesis.

 

And it's why I hate the 'Does Not Cross Intervening Space' advantage and don't allow it in my games.

 

Chris.

[Ndreare]

Absolutly for rasons above.

[Greywind]

Yes, the character takes damage in those cases.  That's why the power is Stretching, not Energy Blast or Telekinesis.

 

And it's why I hate the 'Does Not Cross Intervening Space' advantage and don't allow it in my games.

 

Chris.

 

I have no problem with it, depending on how the ability is explained. Tempest from Atari Force was capable of opening portals that he could reach through. Perfect for Does Not Cross Intervening Space on stretching.

[phoenix240]

I have no problem with it, depending on how the ability is explained. Tempest from Atari Force was capable of opening portals that he could reach through. Perfect for Does Not Cross Intervening Space on stretching.

 

That seems fine to me.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Hand attack with ranged advantage coupled with a limited range limitation.

 

This way, the attack is still modified by the character's strength, could still be blocked at the gm's discretion (it is, after all a hand to hand attack, simply projected at range) but the range isnt going to be the length of a football field, merely a few meters. and because it is designated as ranged, it wont affect the character if something damaging is between her and her rarget and does not set off the targets damage shield.

[Christougher]

I have no problem with it, depending on how the ability is explained. Tempest from Atari Force was capable of opening portals that he could reach through. Perfect for Does Not Cross Intervening Space on stretching.

No, that's perfect for Telekinesis.

 

Chris.

[Hyper-Man]

A portal based sfx Stretching with does not cross = HTH attacks at 'range' of stretch that ARE affected by Damage Shield.

 

If the player wants a version that isn't affected by Damage Shield then they'll need to use a truly ranged ability (Energy Blast, RKA, Telekinesis, etc...).

 

The main benefits of the 1st option is to combine the various HTH damage options into one attack that doesn't get a range modifier due to Stretching.  It's usually going to result in a cheaper method to reach the same Damage Class of attack done with the 2nd option (which seems perfectly balanced to me).

[phoenix240]

Yeah, my thought is asking the player to switch his build around for this power. It doesn't quite fit the special effects he wants. Its mot Dhalsim than Ryu.

[Greywind]

No, that's perfect for Telekinesis.

 

Chris.

 

Not when it's his actual hand going through gateway.

[Christougher]

Not when it's his actual hand going through gateway.

 

Even when it's his actual hand going through the gateway.  The Power in use is Stretching - reaching across that distance.  An advantage* that negates the basic premise of a power is a bad thing.  If he wants the SFX of that Telekinesis to be his actual detached hand, take a feedback type limitation on the Telekinesis.

 

*Or Limitation.  I'm looking at you Teleport Must Cross Intervening Space.  Use *Running*.

 

Chris.

[Hyper-Man]

I don't think Greywind was disagreeing that the Stretching + Does Not Cross combo WOULD be subject to Damage Shields. 

 

With that understood, it is a perfectly viable alternative to TK per RAW.

[Hyper-Man]

*Or Limitation.  I'm looking at you Teleport Must Cross Intervening Space.  Use *Running*.

 

Chris.

 

Teleport with Must Cross.. is a perfect way to simulate the special effect of Super Speed.  It is far less clunky than the book recommended Invisibility Linked to Movement.  It gets a character from point A to point B without showing the movement in between. 

[Christopher]

Even when it's his actual hand going through the gateway.  The Power in use is Stretching - reaching across that distance.  An advantage* that negates the basic premise of a power is a bad thing.  If he wants the SFX of that Telekinesis to be his actual detached hand, take a feedback type limitation on the Telekinesis.

 

*Or Limitation.  I'm looking at you Teleport Must Cross Intervening Space.  Use *Running*.

 

Chris.

"Stretching, Does not Crosses Intervening" Space is fully vulnerable to Damage Shields and getting your Appendage Grabbed (you cannot retract stretching after an attack*).

The only thing it prevents is having your appendage lying all over the place, so it/you cannot be damaged anywhere but the souce point (you) and the endpoint(your target). So I cannot quite see what problem you have with it.

 

 

*Have to re-read how stretching works with Aborting. Theoretically you could "retract your hand" as Defensive Action. Would propably let this work like Dive for Cover, especially using the DEX Roll (to get it out there in time). The Prone penalty could be handwaved as "Deorientation (because of doing it fast) until you had half a phase to re-orient"**

 

**The book states it is possible to "be prone while still flying in the air". It's just to be described as "being disoriented/out of balance till you had a half phase to adjust" instead of "prone on the ground".

 

Regarding the Original question:

The Advantages of Stretching are:

No Range penalty and can apply HTH-only levels.

Can use your bought STR to add damage, making doing damage cheaper.

Should avoid "Block vs. Ranged Attacks", because it counts as HTH.

 

Downsides:

Takes damage from damage shields.

Exposes you to HTH and Ranged attacks on along the "whole line" of your stretching.

Especially exposes you to HTH-attacks (inlcuding grab) on the target point

You cannot retract immediately after the attack, so that vulnerability lingers. Unless maybe you abort to "Dive for Cover".

 

Reasons not to use Stretching:

You don't want to suffer Damage shields or be exposed to Grabs/HTH-attacks at your target. At the same time you have no Focus or Material Manifestation to take the damage/effect instead of you.*

 

Alternatives:

Telekinesis can be used for generic "Applications of STR" on Ranged. It is not ideal to deal damage (bad AP/STR and END/DC ratio).

Blast can be used for Damaging powers.

In both cases add in "Limited to STR" (wich is basically one way Unified with STR, for purposes of Drains. So -1/4 on the Power seems fair).

 

Limited Range (the Limitation) could be used to limit the Range to somethign closer to stretching.

Limited Range (the Advantage) might is harder.

Rules say you can only apply it to HKA, not HTH-Attacks or STR.

But I guess when adding in stuff like loosing the "No Range Limitation" on HTH-Attack, at least that one could also be fair.

As for TK, the GM could declare that "Short Range TK at 5 Base Points per 4 STR" is avalible for his campaign.*

 

 

*one of my early Ideas was a character with a indestructible Arm/Hand. He would suffer no damage shields when using that arm and since his range was "Normal Human Reach" he had no extra resistance against being Grabbed with it. So I spend some thoughts on this.

[Christopher]

Teleport with Must Cross.. is a perfect way to simulate the special effect of Super Speed.  It is far less clunky than the book recommended Invisibility Linked to Movement.  It gets a character from point A to point B without showing the movement in between. 

Doesn't that limitation say you still leave tracks and fire Motion Sensors along the path?

[phoenix240]

Teleport with Must Cross.. is a perfect way to simulate the special effect of Super Speed.  It is far less clunky than the book recommended Invisibility Linked to Movement.  It gets a character from point A to point B without showing the movement in between. 

Yep. I read "Must cross intervening distance" as short hand for "Must be able to cross Intervening space and is subject to all conditions for doing so such as pass through damaging areas."

[Greywind]

Absolutely. I look at it like Clark on Smallville. Running around so fast that nobody reacts to him, and yet, there is never any indication on anything of an object moving at a high rate of speed. Like papers flying everywhere due to the breeze/vacuum effect.

[Greywind]

Even when it's his actual hand going through the gateway.  The Power in use is Stretching - reaching across that distance.  An advantage* that negates the basic premise of a power is a bad thing.  If he wants the SFX of that Telekinesis to be his actual detached hand, take a feedback type limitation on the Telekinesis.

 

*Or Limitation.  I'm looking at you Teleport Must Cross Intervening Space.  Use *Running*.

 

Chris.

 

"Reason from Effect". Not "Reason with the GM's bias against certain builds". Keeping it simple is usually the best way to go about something.