HELP! Adding Damage from multiple VPPs (DC?)

[GoldenAge]

If a player has 2 VPPs...

 

1 to represent a baseline level of abilities based on 0END set at 30AP (6DCs)

+

1 to represent a boosted level of the same abilities with complex limitations (but no extra advantages) set at 85 AP (17DCs)

 

Could this character (having satisfied all limitations and END) combine these pools to form a 23DC attack?

 

Where in the rules can I find these answers???

 

Thanks guys and gals!!!

[BoloOfEarth]

I don't think you can.

 

According to 6E1, p. 399 (bolding added):

 

 

A character may have other powers outside of a Power Framework that add onto one of his Power Framework slots. However, that sort of extra Power can only work with the slot, not by itself or with another slot (in some cases you can simulate this with the Linked Limitation).

 

Since you're talking VPPs, I don't think I'd allow having one VPP link to another one.

 

That said, I'd think he could do a Multiple Attack, hitting with both powers at once (so, a 17d6 and a 6d6).

[GoldenAge]

You're so right. After all these years I think I'm losing my memory of the rules!!! 

[BoloOfEarth]

Hey, it's not like they were written up by a lawyer, y'know. 

[GoldenAge]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! 

[Hyper-Man]

To build the stated special effect via RAW an AID with Standard Effect and the Advantages to affect the VPP and ALL slots might be an easier approach.  If you don't want it to require 2 actions (1 for the AID and another 1 for the boosted VPP & Power) it would also need a Trigger.

 

HM

[Hyper-Man]

Another option would be to build just 1 VPP where the Active Cost of any slot can be 85AP (or 115AP*) but with a Real Cost Limit of 30 Points (or some higher number with set Advantages like 0 END). Then pre-make ALL the slots with 2 versions - 1 with no Limitations and 1 with ALL the Limitations that allow access to the FULL Active Points.

 

HM

[IndianaJoe3]

Another option would be to build just 1 VPP where the Active Cost of any slot can be 85AP (or 115AP*) but with a Real Cost Limit of 30 Points (or some higher number with set Advantages like 0 END). Then pre-make ALL the slots with 2 versions - 1 with no Limitations and 1 with ALL the Limitations that allow access to the FULL Active Points.

 

Yeah, this seems like the cleaner (and probably cheaper) build.

[pinecone]

Another option would be to build just 1 VPP where the Active Cost of any slot can be 85AP (or 115AP*) but with a Real Cost Limit of 30 Points (or some higher number with set Advantages like 0 END). Then pre-make ALL the slots with 2 versions - 1 with no Limitations and 1 with ALL the Limitations that allow access to the FULL Active Points.

 

HM

 

This is the way I

'd suggest.

[Hyper-Man]

It's an expensive setup no matter which method you use.

 

184    2 Stage VPP Example: Variable Power Pool, 36 base + 127 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1), Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1); all slots Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (258 Active Points); all slots Unified Power (-1/4), Limited Power Limited Special Effect (Custom; -1/4)

[Notes: If No Skill Roll Required and Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action are added the Active Points = 258 and Real Cost = 184]
0    1) Basic Zapping: Blast 6d6 (45 Active Points) Real Cost: 30 - END=0
0    2) Boosted Zapping with additional (-2) worth of Limitations: Blast 17d6 (127 Active Points); Custom Modifier (Any combination of Limitations except for Endurance based ones; -2) Real Cost: 36 - END=0

 

     

61    VPP + Aid Example part 1: Variable Power Pool, 39 base + 36 control cost, all slots Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (66 Active Points); all slots Unified Power (-1/4)

[Notes: If No Skill Roll Required and Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action are added the Active Points = 102 and Real Cost = 89]
0    1) Basic Zapping: Blast 6d6 (45 Active Points) Real Cost: 36 - END=0
     

124    VPP + Aid Example part 2: Aid 18d6+1 (standard effect: 55 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1), Expanded Effect (x5 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (VPP + Aid Example part 1; +2) (495 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect affects both character and recipient of Power's benefits; All Aided Powers Gain (-2) worth of Limitations - cannot include Endurance based ones; -1 1/2), Only to Aid Self (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (-1/4) - END=0

 

 

HM

[Hyper-Man]

Well, I know in previous editions there was a rule against building a Partially Limited Multipower (and by extension VPP) but I just found the following section of 6e that appears to indicate that GoldenAge's original idea of 2 separate VPPs would actually be legal now (and less expensive than my examples above).  Of course, further clarification from Mr. Long would be necessary to confirm this.

 

From 6e1 page 366,
 

Partially-Limited Powers
A character may have a power that’s only partly restricted — only part of the power operates under the Limitation. The character decides what Limitation to apply to the power, then decides what parts of the power he’ll Limit. The character buys the restricted part of the power with the Limitation and the rest of the power normally.

Example: Pulsar has a Blast 20d6 with many Limitations. The first 8d6 are bought normally at a cost of 40 points. The next 4d6 are bought at Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -½) for a cost of 13 points. The next 4d6 are bought at Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1) for a cost of 10 points. The last 4d6 are bought at Increased Endurance Cost (5x END; -2) for a cost of 7 points. The entire 20d6 cost 40+13+10+7=70 points. To use the entire 20d6 costs 4+4+6+10 = 24 END!

You can also apply this effect to Advantages, Adders, Power Frameworks, and parts of a power. However, no matter how much an Advantage is Limited, it increases the power’s END cost (and penalty to any related Skill Rolls) at all times.

 

 

HM

[Scott Baker]

Well, I know in previous editions there was a rule against building a Partially Limited Multipower (and by extension VPP) but I just found the following section of 6e that appears to indicate that GoldenAge's original idea of 2 separate VPPs would actually be legal now (and less expensive than my examples above).  Of course, further clarification from Mr. Long would be necessary to confirm this.

 

From 6e1 page 366,

 

 

HM

Not so much. I'll refer to 6E1 398 -- No Combining of Frameworks.

 

Edit: And CC 122 -- Slot Purchases. (Not sure what GoldenAge is using.)

[Hyper-Man]

I'm guessing that if the rule from page 366 is invoked that there really wouldn't be 2 separate VPP's.  Instead, there would be the primary VPP and then a 'Limited Bonus to the primary VPP' that is built exactly like a VPP but since it cannot be used independently it would not invoke the prohibitions to combining VPP's per the rules on 6e1 page 398.  Again, Mr. Long would need to confirm.  IF this is not the case I have no clue why the section I highlighted was included.

 

HM

[Scott Baker]

I'm guessing that if the rule from page 366 is invoked that there really wouldn't be 2 separate VPP's.  Instead, there would be the primary VPP and then a 'Limited Bonus to the primary VPP' that is built exactly like a VPP but since it cannot be used independently it would not invoke the prohibitions to combining VPP's per the rules on 6e1 page 398.  Again, Mr. Long would need to confirm.  IF this is not the case I have no clue why the section I highlighted was included.

 

HM

If you ask Steve I think he'll point you to 6E 401.

[Hyper-Man]

If you ask Steve I think he'll point you to 6E 401.

 

You are probably right. That's why I wasn't planning on asking.

[BoloOfEarth]

It's an expensive setup no matter which method you use.

 

It's even more expensive than that.  He was looking to combine 17d6 + 6d6 for a whopping 23d6.

[Hyper-Man]

It's even more expensive than that.  He was looking to combine 17d6 + 6d6 for a whopping 23d6.

 

Right you are.  I misread the original post. (not the first time that's happened!)

[GoldenAge]

Thanks for all the help, friends!!!