[SPOILER WARNING]Discovery Episode 12 - Holy Mind Blow!

[Christopher]

This thread is under general Spoiler Warning, because we will discuss the storyline of Star Trek: Discovery. And there are some pretty damn good twists in that Storyline, that I would not want to spoil for anyone! Proceed on own Risk.

 

I just watched Episode 12 of Discovery. And Holy Mind Blow, I did NOT see that twist comming. But it does make sense:

I just could not get a "grasp" on Lorkas Character. Was he a Explorer? A Soldier? Someone with PTSD?  Every other Star Trek Captain thus far seemed a lot more "consistent".

 

But with the reveal that he is from the Mirror Universe, it all makes sense now:

- he has been impersonating Prime Lorka this whole time

- sleeping with a Phaser under his Pillow. Something a Mirror Verser would totally do in foreign Territory.

- at no point did he had PTSD or need for a Psyche Evaluation. What he would have needed was a Quantum Scan

- his less then consistent personality when each and every Crewmember was concerned. He was just playing each and every one of them to continue work on the Sporehub Drive

- his odd (overly?) protective attitude towards Burnham.

- a lot of details I propably missed/forgotten during the winter pause.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Christopher
Snuggly Pony Edited, for less offensive language

[dmjalund]

I think all captains in the mirror universe have a phaser under their pillow, even when on their own star ship

[Hyper-Man]

I read a pretty scathing article about the light sensitivity thing - why is ship lighting not different for instance? There are too many other shows with mirror episodes that never noted it before.

[Christopher]

32 minutes ago, Hyper-Man said:

I read a pretty scathing article about the light sensitivity thing - why is ship lighting not different for instance? There are too many other shows with mirror episodes that never noted it before.

Maybe they figured out how the Gene-Engineer that weakness out till Kirk crossed over? And latest with Lorka having lived there for months, they now have a proper counter measure from the prime Universe.

I mean somehow they figured out how to Scan the Badlands for Hidden Rebellion bases in DS9 Mirror Verse. Something the entire Cardassian Military did not manage in literal decades.

And then there was this time Mirror Kirk had the "kill anyone without a Trace" machine. So suddenly getting over it? Yeah, not the wierdest asspull the Mirror Verse ever did. Not by a long shoot.

 

Also it is actually only light changes that are the issue. Like opening the doorway towards your miniature Sun Main reactor.

 

It is totally something that could have plain slipped through being noticed thus far. Like Spock forgetting he had a special Eyelid that protected his eyesight back in the day.

[Christopher]

13 minutes ago, Christopher said:

I mean somehow they figured out how to Scan the Badlands for Hidden Rebellion bases in DS9 Mirror Verse. Something the entire Cardassian Military did not manage in literal decades.

And then there was this time Mirror Kirk had the "kill anyone without a Trace" machine. So suddenly getting over it? Yeah, not the wierdest asspull the Mirror Verse ever did. Not by a long shoot.

Or how about that time they build a ISS Defiant on Terok Nor, without a proper Drydock, just in the time it took the Regent to organise a counterstrike?

[DasBroot]

The mirror episodes always have awesome plot-holes.

 

But they're also, on average, very interesting episodes that give the actors and writers a chance to stretch.

 

I was at first apprehensive of seeing the mirror universe tapped in season one - but Discovery is honestly the best show to really explore the ideas.  The mirror universe culture deserves to lean a little more towards the PG13 / M -14 side of the fence.

 

As for the light sensitivity - it's a neat quirk and it hasn't been seen before because it hasn't been thought of before.  Like the purplish or albino glitter armor Klingons with their brutal looking ships.

 

New ideas aren't bad.  New shows don't replace the shows you already saw and love.  Put each show in their own universe and you'll be happier. Or don't watch it if you don't like it.  Good rules for any fandom really.

 

As for the plot specifics - yes, this finally does 'excuse' Lorca and I really, really, really hope it was the plan all along.  It looks like it. It feels like it.  I just hope it wasn't a writer four or five scripts in and said 'hey, you know what would be cool?'

 

I hope the Empress does keep her word - that she IS a woman of honor like the Prime Georgiou was.  That she is as she was only with the ruthlessness and amorality dialed up to 11. The best mirror episodes play out with the characters being able to see how they could have become their mirrors if their situation was different.

 

I hate her (the point) but I hope they dump L'rell with mirror Voq.  I hope her and infiltrator-Ash's arcs are played out (and that Ash comes back as normal, as I liked him) and she goes away.   I liked the traditional Klingon death yell as she 'killed' Voq in Ash and hope it's not another trick - but she cracked really, really easily as soon as he was beamed into the cell, so...

 

 

 

 

[Christopher]

14 minutes ago, DasBroot said:

As for the plot specifics - yes, this finally does 'excuse' Lorca and I really, really, really hope it was the plan all along.  It looks like it. It feels like it.  I just hope it wasn't a writer four or five scripts in and said 'hey, you know what would be cool?'

I think this time they wanted to try something like a "Starchinsky Plot" of Babylon 5:

"Fuller wanted to differentiate the series from the previous 700+ episodes of Star Trek by taking advantage of the streaming format of All Access and telling a single story arc across the entire first season. He and Kurtzman developed this story from "so many elements of Star Trek", taking certain episodes of the original series and using their "DNA" to find "the spirit of what Star Trek offers, both in terms of high-concept science fiction storytelling and really wonderful metaphors for the human condition".^[40] Berg said that the series' writers "are so in love with" The Original Series, The Next Generation, and the family aspect of those series, while Harberts added that Meyer's Star Trek films were an especial influence on Discovery because "his storytelling is complex and intellectual and yet there's a lot of room for character voices".^[59]"

 

Unless they somehow manage to find a live Prime Lorca in this Universe or get someone assigned, I guess Mr. Saru was always intended to become Captain of the Discovery.

[DasBroot]

I don't really have a problem with that.  A non-human captain is overdo and honestly... it's fine to not have the captain be the protagonist.  The original scan sheets for the show *said* that a lot of narrative would be with the 'below decks' officers instead of the command staff.  Saru becoming captain would do that nicely - leaving only Michael as a liason between command crew and crewman.  I can't even remember the names of the rest of Discovery's bridge crew so it really does look like they meant it.

 

That said they might find a prime Lorca if they bother explaining how mirror Lorca ended up in the prime universe without a spore drive or the engine accident that sent the Defiant there and drove the crew mad, according to the Empress (who might be an Unreliable Narrator of those events).

 

We'll see how things play out, but I'm enjoying most of what I see.

[Christopher]

29 minutes ago, DasBroot said:

That said they might find a prime Lorca if they bother explaining how mirror Lorca ended up in the prime universe without a spore drive or the engine accident that sent the Defiant there and drove the crew mad, according to the Empress (who might be an Unreliable Narrator of those events).

Actually I have a simple explanation: Mirror Buran did have a Spore Drive.

Remember, there were 2 experts on Sporedrive technology in the Prime Universe. Who says Nr. 2 was not on the Buran doing experients when it happened?

Or maybe it was just a Transporter accident like in TOS?

 

We know for a fact the Mirror Universe experiment with Sporedrive Technology. And mirror Lorca was trusted with the "Empries greatest secrets".

[Cassandra]

On January 24, 2018 at 5:30 PM, Christopher said:

Or how about that time they build a ISS Defiant on Terok Nor, without a proper Drydock, just in the time it took the Regent to organise a counterstrike?

 

Because

[Christopher]

On 26.1.2018 at 5:54 PM, Christopher said:

Actually I have a simple explanation: Mirror Buran did have a Spore Drive.

Remember, there were 2 experts on Sporedrive technology in the Prime Universe. Who says Nr. 2 was not on the Buran doing experients when it happened?

Or maybe it was just a Transporter accident like in TOS?

 

We know for a fact the Mirror Universe experiment with Sporedrive Technology. And mirror Lorca was trusted with the "Empries greatest secrets".

Okay, Episode 13 clarified how he got from the Mirror to the Prime Verse.

[DasBroot]

Yep. The classic way.

 

I felt the arc was Discovery's strongest so far but

overshooting by 9 months

was NOT needed.  Oh well.  

 

 

[Christopher]

2 minutes ago, DasBroot said:

I felt the arc was Discovery's strongest so far but

  Hide contents

overshooting by 9 months

was NOT needed.  Oh well.  

This has been the only arc of Discovery the whole time. The whole Voq/Tyler things seems to have been only a distraction so the whole Lorca thing came more surprising. Maybe they revisit it in Season 2?

 

As for the conclusion of Episode 13: It was needed to setup the premise for Season 2.

Apparently Seasons 1 was planned for 16 Episodes in the first place. And there is no way they finish off this thread with only 3 Episodes left.

[Cassandra]

So he's from an alternate universe where people can't act.

[Christopher]

33 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

So he's from an alternate universe where people can't act.

It seems as if every single post of you this year is either aiming to be depressing, calling Actors inept or something around that.

Unfortunately that means I have to largely ignore what you post, as you do not add anything to any discussion.

[Cassandra]

Just now, Christopher said:

It seems as if every single post of you this year is either aiming to be depressing, calling Actors inept or something around that.

Unfortunately that means I have to largely ignore what you post, as you do not add anything to any discussion.

 

As you wish.

[Christopher]

Okay, I just watched Episode 14. And I have the feeling there is going to be another betrayal. A mirror of Episode 1-2.

[BoloOfEarth]

On 1/29/2018 at 2:29 PM, Cassandra said:

 

As you wish.

 

Wait, according to Princess Bride, that means...  Awwww....  how sweet!

[DasBroot]

I think my feelings towards last night's episode could be summed up as 

 

"Ok, but why?"

 

 

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, DasBroot said:

I think my feelings towards last night's episode could be summed up as 

 

"Ok, but why?"

 

 

Why what?

[Hyper-Man]

I happen to like the updated guest ship. That certainly deserves an episode or two.

[Christopher]

6 minutes ago, Hyper-Man said:

I happen to like the updated guest ship. That certainly deserves an episode or two.

It really is just the remastered Ship, with some extra CGI lighting and details:

 

[DasBroot]

3 minutes ago, Christopher said:

Why what?

 

Why put the Enterprise in a season one arc?   And hype it so by using TOS end credits theme over their own? To me that feels like they lack confidence in the show they've put out - that they were afraid to let it be its own thing.

 

I'm OK with it.  I just kind of wish they hadn't gone there so soon - but I had much the same feeling with using the mirror universe and it turned out well so we'll see.

 

 

[Christopher]

1 minute ago, DasBroot said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Why put the Enterprise in a season one arc?   And hype it so by using TOS end credits theme over their own? To me that feels like they lack confidence in the show they've put out - that they were afraid to let it be its own thing.

 

 

I'm OK with it.  I just kind of wish they hadn't gone there so soon - but I had much the same feeling with using the mirror universe and it turned out well so we'll see.

They put it there to symbolize the change: Away from the Klingon War. Towards storylines closer to the TOS thematic.

A second season was already ordered in October 2017.

 

But I am actually intrigued by the "Distress call" part. Maybe it was just someone using the wrong call function? Or maybe this is a intro into the next Season?

[DasBroot]

I get that - but I think that Discovery had done enough to symbolise that themselves (they weren't exactly subtle about it, with Saru's speech in the mirror universe about this being the first voyage of the Discovery and Michael's passionate speeches about what the Federation stands for)

 

The Big E looked beautiful, though.  If Pike is captain will the first officer be a version of Majel Barret's "Number One'? Will they dare put a Spock in as science officer?