Countering Flash with Mental Illusions?

[Ninja-Bear]

18 hours ago, zslane said:

 

You can voluntarily lower your SPD. So there is precedence for such a thing.

 

However, in terms of the breakout roll, I was asking what the RAW says about voluntarily declining the roll. I don't ever recall it being addressed, which would put it into the realm of house rules.

True but you can’t lower it below 1 though.

[zslane]

True. But, um, so what? How is the difference between (lowering to) 1 instead of 0 meaningful in this context?

[dsatow]

I'd allow the lowering of EGO to allow a mental illusion to stay up.  It happens all the time in comics and stories.  The target knows it is an illusion but chooses to believe it anyways just to live out the fantasy.

 

[Ninja-Bear]

4 hours ago, zslane said:

True. But, um, so what? How is the difference between (lowering to) 1 instead of 0 meaningful in this context?

Simple RAW limits how low you can reduce speed to 2 even if 1 is more desirable. So lowering Ego to 0 when desirable doesn’t seem legal. And iirc, you can’t make yourself easier to grab when you want.

[zslane]

Okay, but if we reduce EGO to 2, it will be no different than reducing to 0 in terms of the mechanics that will be affected, so the distinction (between 0, 1, or 2) isn't terribly germain. The real question, in my mind, is whether or not the RAW explicitly prohibits voluntarily reducing Characteristics other than SPD. I'm presuming it doesn't, but also doesn't offer any guidance on how to handle it, leaving it in the realm of pseudo-house rules.

[Hugh Neilson]

Assume we do accept one may lower EGO.  I believe SPD and CV must be lowered across the board.  If EGO is voluntarily lowered, would that not mean enemies using mental powers also face that vastly reduced EGO?  A roll to resist a Psych Comp would also be a 9- if EGO is reduced to 2, wouldn't it?

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think just ruling that voluntarily accepting mental powers negates or greatly reduces the chances of breaking out is a better approach than lowering a stat.  That way not only is your stat not low for everything you do (resisting presence attacks, fighting off hostile mental powers, making willpower checks for psychological complications, etc) but its not a basic violation of the concept I posted above.

[Ninja-Bear]

18 hours ago, zslane said:

Okay, but if we reduce EGO to 2, it will be no different than reducing to 0 in terms of the mechanics that will be affected, so the distinction (between 0, 1, or 2) isn't terribly germain. The real question, in my mind, is whether or not the RAW explicitly prohibits voluntarily reducing Characteristics other than SPD. I'm presuming it doesn't, but also doesn't offer any guidance on how to handle it, leaving it in the realm of pseudo-house rules.

To clarify I think by RAW you cannot reduce EGO whether to 2, 1, or 0. But that’s how I see it. Wasn’t there a thread awhile back about reducing DCV so as to be easier to be caught but by RAW you couldn’t? Also I’m not against lower your EGO for this purpose, I just don’t think it’s possible by RAW.

[Christopher R Taylor]

You can voluntarily lower CV if you want, that's part of the rules, and you can lower your Speed, but those are the only stats the rules say you can and the only ones that make sense doing so with.

[Tech]

I'm agreeing that 'yes', this power would work, as well as needing a PER roll each phase, and keeping END cost going for each phase. However, realizing something is an illusion doesn't automatically break you out of it.

 

I could see the hero with Mental Illusion telling the blinded hero what they're about to do and the target hero willing to accept it to be able to help her fellow heroes. It wouldn't disappear, even unintentionally: the target hero is glad to be able to be helped by a teammate, knowing that what is being "seen" is an accurate illusion.

[zslane]

4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Assume we do accept one may lower EGO.  I believe SPD and CV must be lowered across the board.  If EGO is voluntarily lowered, would that not mean enemies using mental powers also face that vastly reduced EGO?  A roll to resist a Psych Comp would also be a 9- if EGO is reduced to 2, wouldn't it?

 

The way I see it, yes, for sure. It can be a dangerous state to be in, no question.

 

Lowering your EGO so as to allow a friendly mental power to affect you without your ally needing a really huge effect roll is nothing new to the game, at least in my experience. I didn't realize the notion was controversial; maybe something in 5e/6e made it controversial?

[Watchman Mk. IV]

41 minutes ago, zslane said:

 

The way I see it, yes, for sure. It can be a dangerous state to be in, no question.

 

Lowering your EGO so as to allow a friendly mental power to affect you without your ally needing a really huge effect roll is nothing new to the game, at least in my experience. I didn't realize the notion was controversial; maybe something in 5e/6e made it controversial?

 

Pretty much the same here.  The lowering of defenses (DCV, EGO) to me is all-or-nothing: either don't resist so as to let a friendly's 'attack' get through (i.e., Aid) or go full defensive...but you pay the price by having the effect apply to every attack on you for that particular phase.  If it's a continuous power that needs to attack every phase, you're stuck with that lowered defense until you choose to go full defensive again.  As for SPD, you can simulate the same effect simply by delaying phases.