The Claw!

[knasser2]

For my WH40K conversion, there is an Ork Vehicle that has a "Grabbin' Klaw". Like one of those crane-mounted claws you see in scrap yards to pick up junked cars. I've looked at Entangle and it doesn't feel appropriate because I can't see the character escaping it by stabbing the heavy, solid steel talons but I can see strong or multiple characters prising it off him. It really feels like I should represent this using the Grab manoeuvre but I don't know how to give a vehicle a power that does a manoeuvre. How do you make a weapon that does Grab? Do I just buy the vehicle 40 STR (Limitation: Used only for Grab) or something?

[Lord Liaden]

I would suggest using Telekinesis, with a Limited Range to how far you want the claw to be able to reach, and a Focus Limitation if you want it to be targetable and damageable apart from the tank.

[knasser2]

19 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I would suggest using Telekinesis, with a Limited Range to how far you want the claw to be able to reach, and a Focus Limitation if you want it to be targetable and damageable apart from the tank.

 

Well that was nice and simple. Thanks a lot. Grabbin' Klaw as follows, then:

 

Grabbin' Klaw (Telekinesis STR 30, OIF -½, No Range -½, Durable (18PD/18ED)). Active Points: 45. Real Points: 23.

 

I become more and more impressed with Hero 6E the longer I use it.

[IndianaJoe3]

What about Extra Limb?

[Lord Liaden]

If knasser2 just wants the claw to grab using the tank's own Strength, sure, that should work.

 

That's the thing about Hero System, k2; there's almost always more than one rules-legal way to model something. Which you choose depends on precisely how you want that something to work.

 

And these forums are full of system wanks who love debating this stuff. Hang around here long enough, you'll have more advice than you know what to do with.

[IndianaJoe3]

6e explicitly discourages No Range TK, suggesting Limited STR instead. (6e1 296)

[whitekeys]

50 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

If knasser2 just wants the claw to grab using the tank's own Strength, sure, that should work.

Ya!

 

I'm pretty sure things like claws, or whether your vehicle has wheels or legs for example, are special effects of the vehicle. Vehicles start with basic characteristics, which can be found on 6E2 186, and movement modes, 6E2 188, but how they work exactly are special effects. I'd say the same thing about STR. Your vehicle could be a mech with arms and hands, couldn't it? A combat maneuvre should be decent, unless you envision the arm being extremely long, since what you get for free would be reach equivalent to a character's reach.

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

6e explicitly discourages No Range TK, suggesting Limited STR instead. (6e1 296)

 

Doesn't expressly forbid it, though. GM permission and all.   Although I did get the (mistaken) impression what knasser2 wanted was more crane-like, hence having some range

 

But sometimes a GM who has what he/she thinks is a cool idea the RAW doesn't readily accommodate, should be prepared to give them a good .  After all, Steve Long wrote up no few official things that bend his own rules.

[knasser2]

10 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

6e explicitly discourages No Range TK, suggesting Limited STR instead. (6e1 296)

 

But the vehicle already has STR. Am I buying a separate STR attribute? Applying a Limitation to the existing Strength? The point is there's no cost for a manoeuvre and that's really what I'm after. Just using Strength leads to the scenario in which a vehicle without this capability costs the same as a vehicle with it which seems wrong to me. (And actually, I've given the Klaw less strength than the vehicle's base otherwise it would be impossible to escape). I need something that gives the vehicle the manoeuvre it wouldn't otherwise have, it seems to me.

 

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Doesn't expressly forbid it, though. GM permission and all.   Although I did get the (mistaken) impression what knasser2 wanted was more crane-like, hence having some range

 

But sometimes a GM who has what he/she thinks is a cool idea the RAW doesn't readily accommodate, should be prepared to give them a good .  After all, Steve Long wrote up no few official things that bend his own rules.

 

Well you weren't really mistaken. It's just that I figure there's not really any difference between a vehicle being in hand to hand range and being within a metre or two of it. If you're close enough to grab, you're close enough to strike back.

 

Picture of the WH40K model for reference. Both battlewagons, the one on the left has a Grabbin' Klaw.

[Ninja-Bear]

Well there is no rule stating that your extra limb has to use full strength of the vehicle ?

[knasser2]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well there is no rule stating that your extra limb has to use full strength of the vehicle ?

 

WE IZ ORKZ! WE DONT KNOW DA MEANING OF RE... RES... DAT WORD WOT MEANS NOT KRUMPIN SOMEONE AS 'ARD AS YOU CAN KRUMP IM!

[whitekeys]

Restraint?

[knasser2]

29 minutes ago, whitekeys said:

Restraint?

 

OI! WE JUST TOLDS YER WE DON'T KNOW WOT DAT MEANS.

[whitekeys]

Was it resent?

 

Or restab?

 

The ORKZ I know are familiar with those words.

[knasser2]

51 minutes ago, whitekeys said:

Was it resent?

 

Or restab?

 

The ORKZ I know are familiar with those words.

 

I SENT A GROTZ FOR ME SHOOTAH ONE TIME. AND HE COMES BACK WIT ME CHOPPA. SO'S I HADZ TO RESENT HIM BACK AGAIN. IS THAT WOT YOU MEANZ?

[Lucius]

10 hours ago, knasser2 said:

 

But the vehicle already has STR. Am I buying a separate STR attribute? Applying a Limitation to the existing Strength? The point is there's no cost for a manoeuvre and that's really what I'm after. Just using Strength leads to the scenario in which a vehicle without this capability costs the same as a vehicle with it which seems wrong to me. (And actually, I've given the Klaw less strength than the vehicle's base otherwise it would be impossible to escape). I need something that gives the vehicle the manoeuvre it wouldn't otherwise have, it seems to me.

 

 

Extra Limb.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary also suggests: A Limitation on some of the STR (Not with Extra Limb) and Stretching (With Extra Limb) to extend reach. Oh, and you can buy Martial Maneuvers:

Usin' da Klaw

Grab 'em:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on; FMove

Knock 'em down:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, STR damage +v/10; Target Falls; FMove

 Smash 'em or Run 'em Over:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, -2 DCV, STR damage +2d6 +v/10 Strike, FMove

[whitekeys]

2 hours ago, knasser2 said:

 

I SENT A GROTZ FOR ME SHOOTAH ONE TIME. AND HE COMES BACK WIT ME CHOPPA. SO'S I HADZ TO RESENT HIM BACK AGAIN. IS THAT WOT YOU MEANZ?

 

/sigh

 

Orkzkool drop we got here. Look, just pay attention to Lucius. He'll get you some help.

 

=P

[knasser2]

22 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

Extra Limb.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary also suggests: A Limitation on some of the STR (Not with Extra Limb) and Stretching (With Extra Limb) to extend reach. Oh, and you can buy Martial Maneuvers:

Usin' da Klaw

Grab 'em:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on; FMove

Knock 'em down:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, STR damage +v/10; Target Falls; FMove

 Smash 'em or Run 'em Over:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, -2 DCV, STR damage +2d6 +v/10 Strike, FMove

 

I was looking for a way to buy the Grab Manoeuvre. That was my original question. But there's no points cost for it which is why I started the thread.

[whitekeys]

Grab is a maneuver available to any and all characters, no cost. Your vehicle should be able to do it if it has a STR score and an arm/hand.

[Lucius]

3 hours ago, knasser2 said:

 

I was looking for a way to buy the Grab Manoeuvre. That was my original question. But there's no points cost for it which is why I started the thread.

 

As I see it, if you have a limb that can grab and some STR usable with the limb, you don't NEED to pay points for a basic non-martial "Grab" maneuver.

 

Conversely if you don't have a limb or any STR, I for one don't think you can get the ability to grab even if you do buy a Martial Grab maneuver. It would be like buying a Fencer's Thrust or Parry without equipping the character with a sword.

 

I can't drive my Pontiac Grand Prix up to you and grab you, even though it has a STR score, because it has nothing to grab WITH. If some mad scientist equips my car with an Extra Limb, then it will have something to grab with and can do so.

 

But in accordance with the principal that if you pay points for something it should be useful, I can see allowing a vehicle with Martial Arts to be considered to have a "free limb."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I'm riding a palindromedary. How does that grab you?

 

[knasser2]

8 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

As I see it, if you have a limb that can grab and some STR usable with the limb, you don't NEED to pay points for a basic non-martial "Grab" maneuver.

 

Conversely if you don't have a limb or any STR, I for one don't think you can get the ability to grab even if you do buy a Martial Grab maneuver. It would be like buying a Fencer's Thrust or Parry without equipping the character with a sword.

 

I can't drive my Pontiac Grand Prix up to you and grab you, even though it has a STR score, because it has nothing to grab WITH. If some mad scientist equips my car with an Extra Limb, then it will have something to grab with and can do so.

 

But in accordance with the principal that if you pay points for something it should be useful, I can see allowing a vehicle with Martial Arts to be considered to have a "free limb."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I'm riding a palindromedary. How does that grab you?

 

 

Well then the answer has been pretty simple all along. It's just buy "Extra Limb" and perhaps a modifier to that power to lower the strength!

 

Thank you.