Innocent Bystander

[Stelknecht]

Hi folks. I had a thought today, and wanted to build an innocent bystander, a kid who has the power to transform a nearby adult into a superhero.

I see this as invisible power effects, end cost from the kid, and no control over the subject. The subject would have to have relevant Psy comps to make them act like a hero (protect innocents, code vs killing, etc) and of course superpowers. My first thought was a severe transform, but what other ideas would you have? Maybe a summon (need innocent bystander)? 

 

I like the idea of the herophile kid cheering on their hero, yelling at the villains, and generally being a nuisance, while the "hero" fought valiantly. Interesting drama/danger could be achieved by the kid running low on End, or the Hero being harmed/killed, and reverting to a normal human, and the kid summoning/transforming another one. The questions could also be interesting; where does this Hero come from? Why does s/he seem so confused yet so focussed on justice? 

[Doc Democracy]

It is a really cool idea for a comic book, one I might pick up but one of those ideas that rarely translate too effectively into a decent game character.

 

with the right GM and player it is possible.  Are the powers always the same?  I would be inclined to buy this as invisibly indirect effects with foci of opportunity (a random NPC)....

[Surrealone]

I'd use Summon to do this … specifically with a limitation that requires a nearby adult (akin to a MacGyver-like gadgeteer who can use any OAF for his/her gadgetry) … in addition to the 'arrives under own power' limitation … and a limited form (meaning -1 instead of -2) of 'no conscious control' impacting only the effects of the Summon such that the GM, not the kid, would control the super hero.  The Summon SFX would, of course, be that the nearby adult becomes a super hero (perhaps even doing the Superman thing to run and rip off the Clark Kent costume).

 

For Advantages, I think Amicable would probably make sense, as well as IPE.  

 

This approach would entail the super hero always being the same in terms of powers and the like … at least as I'd build it.  You could certainly go for a class of beings, but I think that gets unnecessarily hard in terms of GM work required to execute it.  I also tend to think it'd be more interesting for the same super to always show up when the kid's around, just because it makes for an interesting plot hook once someone picks up on it.  (And, of course, the kid probably has his/her favourite hero and that's who s/he's likely steadily wishing to be present, cheering on, etc.)

[Stelknecht]

I was thinking always the same, yep. Captain Hero, here in the nick of time! 

Summon does seem like the best option. I'm not sure I'd ever play this (I'd try, but you're right, it'd be a challenge) but the build sounded fun to me. 

[Duke Bushido]

Actually, I run for a character similar to this in my monthly game:

 

Billy Battalion.  I'll spare the long origin and explanation, and sum it up with "when the Hero is needed (as he's part of a group, he has to be summoned), the closest person name Bill, Billy, Will, Willie, William, etc-- *poof*   that person _becomes_ Billy Battalion.  Variable Skill Pool, changeable only ever 12 hours (after 12 hours, *poof back* and that guy reverts back to himself, at that exact spot (which really affects what Billy Battalion is willing to do in the last few hours: he has to concern himself with the safety of "my buddy, Billy!").  At that point, Billy has to be summoned again, and again-- the nearest Billy (who has never been Billy before) gets poofed.  Now Billy must find his way to where he needs to be, etc--

 

Sorry!  Digression.  

 

Variable Skill Pool, varies from Person to Person.  While the bought-and-paid for skills are always Billy's, the skill pool is determined by by the "base" Billy-- background, knowledge, professional skills, etc.  I keep short random lists, as part of the agreement is that the GM spends at least half the points in the pool.  Billy Battalion's looks also vary from base to base (he will assume roughly the same size, colorations (skin, hair, eyes, etc), and gender (that one surprised him! ), and general age of the base Billy. Or in two cases, Billie and Wilhelmina.  Only exception is that, even if the base Billy is a kid,  Billy Battalion will always be at least twenty-five years old.

 

His Characteristics are interesting, as well.  Honestly, were the hook that let me allow the concept: they are _not_ bought as normal characteristics, but as pools (each one) with a max Limitation on each pool.  For example, the Strength pool can only be used to give him a STR equal to the base character +25.   The SPD pool is limited to "base character +2." 

 

Well, you see where this is going.  The exceptions are (naturally), Stun, BODY, and his defenses.  Even his END pool is limited by the base Character (which also gets interesting).

 

In Play?  Yes; at first it was a _bit_ annoying, even in a group of well-experienced players, but within a few sessions it became a pretty simple-- repetition does that, I suppose.

 

For us, really, the whole schtick part, though--- 

 

like Doc said, it doesn't translate effectively.  When we tried it as a multiform, well how do you explain BB reappearing while his last base character is still wandering around?  And even then, the only way to make every Bill on earth his "other" form was to buy them all.  Either that, or have every Bill on earth buy Multiform, complete with their particular version of Billy.

 

We tried Summon, but after 12 hours, when BB is gone, the other guy is there.  Side-effect?  That doesn't really handle it well: Side Effect: random human pops in and now the _other_ players have to deal with that.  

 

See what I mean?

 

We tried Transform, but it was hard to rationalize: How can BB have T-form and use it on someone when he doesn't yet exist?  And just how big  T-form does he need, considering that his "super" form varies so much.

 

In the end, we hand waved it with "secret ID" and "Instant Change."

 

Oh-- best part: after BB turns back into the base character, the base character remembers _everything_.  While he's BB, he is BB: Billy is in the driver's seat and the other person is wherever Billy goes.  But one they change back, they remember _everything_, right down to the origin story.  This just _rocks_ if the base form is a kid.

 

 

I don't know if there is anything helpful there or not, but I promise you that nothing will be as helpful as Doc's caution that it's something of an issue in actual game play.  If you, your GM (or player; I don't know which part you play in your group) and-- and I can't stress this enough, because it really does affect them, especially during the "learning curve" period-- every single person in your group-- is willing to work at it a bit, it's also _lots_ of fun!  

 

 

Hope something there helped.

 

 

Duke

 

[Surrealone]

Duke,

I suspect you were kinda forced into such a bizarre construct since you play 2e … which lacks … Summon!

[Duke Bushido]

6 minutes ago, Surrealone said:

Duke,

I suspect you were kinda forced into such a bizarre construct since you play 2e … which lacks … Summon!

 

 

You are not wrong; I do play 2e.

 

However, we have incorporated a lot of the 4e stuff over the years, making changes as needed to bring it in line with 2e (range modifiers where appropriate, etc.)  A lot of it we didn't really need: Teleport with a -0 Limitation "only to move between dimensions" took care of EDM, -- but yes, we have pulled new powers (and the Perks, which didn't much exist before 4e) when there was no _reasonable_ way to do it with 2e.  Pools, if I remember, first appeared in 3e, now that I stop to think about it.

 

However, Summon didn't work for us, because after the 12-hour limit and BB goes away, there's still someone there.  Summon with the side-effect of "summon again!", particularly with the added "and the second summon also T-forms the new summoned into someone with a set of extra memories going back to a small cave in the African Desert.

 

 

[Stelknecht]

Well, I worked on a Severe Transform, but that'd be hugely expensive, or create a very subpar hero. Which might be ok, really; flying bricks are cheap. 

[Christopher]

First we need to specify:

Is this a GM or Player Character?

 

If this is a GM Character, you can basically just do it. Make sure to not allow Dispel or Healing vs Transform/Summon, so you never have to wonder wich AP range this is. It happens:

On 12/17/2018 at 6:10 PM, BoloOfEarth said:

Malarkey:  I use my Sorry, I Broke It spell on Chiller's backpack.  It's a Dispel.

GM:  You know, when I was asking people online for advice and feedback on how to draw the Weather Bomb powers up, someone said that as GM I don't really need to worry about points.  And I pointed out I'm OCD, and besides, it helps to know who many points something is in case someone tries to Dispel it. 

Pops:  And it's a good thing, too.

 

 

If this is a Player Chacter, then the Hero is the player Character. Not Sally Summoner.

Sally Summoner sounds like some form of Complication/Limitation. "Can only appear where Sally Summoner is there and calls for him".

This would imply a DNCP (Sally Summoner) and lock out numerours other complications (like Secret Identity).

 

Summoning has all those issues with Phases to Orient oneself, Duties and the like. You propably end up having a Hero Summoned 24/7.

Duplication is another Option, but having a widly different Duplicated Character is not really supported.

Transform is a fallback Power, that should not be carelessly put onto anyones sheet - especially not Player Characters. It is around "last resort".

 

It does not sound like the Kid would be usefull at all. The Idea with Multiforms and "Powerset disabeled" Limitations like "Only in Alternate/Heroic Identity" is to have the lesser Character be at least somewhat competent and interesting to play.

With Limtiations you are supposed to Invest the saved points into stuff the normal self can do. Skills, Perks, that sort of thing.

With Multiform the Main Sheet should be at least a "competent normal". Because otherwise you spend 90% of the time in the "Alternate" Form.

[Doc Democracy]

The problem with two body heroes is what happens in a fight.  If the character is basically a normal person then what happens during a fight.  If there is a group (normal for a game) how does the innocent bystander associate with them?  If someone f8nds out that Captain Invincible is simply asummoning of weedy Wendy, then why not take out Wendy in the first round of combat?

 

Those are the practicalities of the game.

 

Now, say you bought a 30PD, 30ED forcefield.  That protects you from damage.  What if the SFX of that is Captain Invincible appearing and leaping in front of the attack?  A 12D6 physical blast power.  The SFX is Slab the Mighty, jumping from nowhere and slamming the person you want attacked.

 

The conceit is that the villains never work out where these powers come from and who they need to attack.  It works narratively in a story but a game has a different dynamic.  The villains will know or they will find out.  It will quickly be obvious who the source of power is.  Work to that, play with the SFX.  I might have a suite of fantasy heroes that come in different contexts.  I would even, as GM, allow the details of the SFX to change.  In a forest, it might be a bear that comes to attack, a tree that falls over to take the hit, in a Hollow World adventure, it might be dinosaurs of one form or another.

 

It could be a lot of fun without trying to stretch the rules, or the patience of the GM.

 

Doc

[Christopher]

35 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

The villains will know or they will find out.  It will quickly be obvious who the source of power is.

This is a case where the "default Obviousness" of the powers would mater a lot.

6E1 124 and following has the basic rules. Foci can somewhat interfere here, but this does not sound like a Focus case.

[Stelknecht]

Well, maybe, but if it's used in a crowd of people, with invisible power effects, it shouldn't be too obvious. 

out of curiosity, I worked over a severe transform, using extra body to add powers; at a 200 point budget, you could get a 275 point superhero, or thereabouts. 

This is just for my mental fun; i wouldn't try to play it, and I'd probably refuse to GM it unless the player was really good. But it seemed like really interesting concept. Don't think I've seen it done before, although obviously Duke has. 

[Duke Bushido]

And in the unique case of Billy Battalion, what good does it do to know that it is every person on earth who could potentially bear a nickname sort of similar to one derived from William? 

 

Well, not counting Doctor Destroyer, of course, who clearly has the resources and willpower to round up and exterminate all of them.

[Ninja-Bear]

Ok if I understood Christopher correctly, I would make a Hero character and the Innocent  Bystander a DNPC or a Physical Limiation. I’m thinking like the Negative Man. Or again with Multiform you could still have a Physical Limiation. Why are we letting the rules get in the way and make it more complicated than needed?

[Christopher]

13 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I’m thinking like the Negative Man.

Negative Man sounds more like a case of Projection. And we have 2 Options for Projection in APG 1 (one dervied from Desolid) alone. I wish this case was so ... easy.

 

14 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Why are we letting the rules get in the way and make it more complicated than needed?

Hero has the options to make a very precision simulation. Unfortunately very precise simulations end up being overly complicated.

 

Programming has similar issues. Without clear goals, we tend towards "Precision Creep". We add more and more stuff that could be added, without asking if it really helps to add that detail.

 

14 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ok if I understood Christopher correctly, I would make a Hero character and the Innocent  Bystander a DNPC or a Physical Limiation.

That is at least how I would do it. But it comes down to a question, wich of the two the Focus will be on, both Roleplaying and in Combat.

With a shared Focus, a Weak PC/Summon combination might work out. But at least if this was my Character, I doubt it would go that way.

 

Look at the more recent cartoon interpretations of Hulk. Hulk is hulk around 90% of the time. Bruce Banner is barely even mentioned.

Compare that to the earlier Hulk solo cartoon.

 

In both cases Bruce Banner has a very different role in the story. Wich I translate to a very different need to write him up as a seperate sheet.