Of Magiers, Morphs, Masters and Mutts

[Mr. R]

I am reading a series by Jennifer Estep and she has an interesting magic system.  People are born with their powers and can seem to shift in different generations.

 

Magiers are the most powerful.  They control a force like electricity, fire, weather and such.  Big effects are their stock in trade.  

 

Morph can shift into a second more powerful shape.  They are known by a living tattoo that manifest on their necks or arm.  This tattoo will wink and gesture to others and is always an indication of their forms.  So far she has Ogre and Dragon forms.

 

Masters are like Magiers, but work on physical materials.  Examples she has are gemstones, rock, metal, bone (healers), thread (yes clothing).

 

Finally Mutts seem like the weakest, but can surprise you.  They have a physical ability that is far greater than normal people.  So Strength, Speed, Healing Ability, Sense of Smell, Etc.

 

 

I think this would be a cool system for a game.  What do you guys think?  Any extrapolations you can think of!

[archer]

I been working on something similar to that for a Hogwarts/Oldtown style of setting for students and to be background information for older adventurers.

 

Converting her setting to mine:

 

Magier = Elementalist

Morph = Innate

Mutt = Innate

Masters = Naturalist (i.e. uses something from the physical world. Someone who uses or builds a focus for their power, a popular slang term for them are "mechanics")

 

For my own ideas not covered from what you told us about her setting:

 

Ritualist - instead of innate physical power or wild elemental magic of some sort, the person accesses her magic through time-tested gestures, incantations, and drawn mystic symbols.

 

Bodyguard - formalized training in weaponry, martial arts, smithing, and how to survive in the wild. In a school setting, a Bodyguard student is typically assigned to be a roommate to and be "responsible" for one of the student magic-users. It helps with the training to give the bodyguard student some experience protecting squishy people from themselves and gives the staff an extra set of eyes to keep the magical student out of mischief. Many students from the magical studies departments dabble to some extent in Bodyguard classes. (And everyone is required to take some level of Physical Education aka running and basic climbing). Bodyguards often go on to become professional bodyguards, adventurers, caravan guards, and (the most skillful of them) master-of-arms for noblemen and kings.

 

Master/Maester (the name is a work in progress) - an archivist, historian, librarian, scientist, teacher. Some are specialists such as being herbalists or doctors. Most are generalists and try to have a broad knowledge in order to help their job prospects. A Maester might go from being a chronicler/doctor for a trip to the arctic one year to being a tutor for nobleman's children for three years, to being a scribe for six months, then a bookkeeper for a merchant until something better comes along. Some Maester's sideline as spies and/or information brokers while others are famed for their loyalty and tight lips. Students from other disciplines are highly encouraged to take classes from the Maester line.

[Thumper]

HERO is definitely the system for recreating a magic system like that, since you're basically describing super powers. The description of Magiers makes me miss Elemental Controls, since they'd be a perfect fit.  Definitely grounds for a Unified Power limitation.

[mallet]

I don't have any thoughts really rule-wise, but my only general thought (and maybe this is just because of how it is described) but "most powerful", "weakest", etc... are, I feel, tough going for a game where everyone starts with the same number of character points. 

Does it mean that if a player chose to be a Magiers they would start with more character points then a Mutt would? 

If not, then a Mutt wouldn't be "weakest" they would just sink their points into physical abilities and powers and still be equal in power to the Magiers who put all their points into flashy "spells" but are stuck with human-level characteristics (10-20 max). 

[archer]

5 hours ago, mallet said:

I don't have any thoughts really rule-wise, but my only general thought (and maybe this is just because of how it is described) but "most powerful", "weakest", etc... are, I feel, tough going for a game where everyone starts with the same number of character points. 

Does it mean that if a player chose to be a Magiers they would start with more character points then a Mutt would? 

If not, then a Mutt wouldn't be "weakest" they would just sink their points into physical abilities and powers and still be equal in power to the Magiers who put all their points into flashy "spells" but are stuck with human-level characteristics (10-20 max). 

 

I think in the context that "more powerful" roughly equals "more versatile".

 

Say some Mutt turns into a bear. That's powerful definitely.

 

Say some Magier has air elemental powers. She probably has a ranged blast, perhaps an RKA, maybe flies or levitates, TK, Barrier, and a Force Field.

 

Sure a werebear is strong as hell and hardy as hell. I wouldn't want to face one with a sword. But someone who duplicates the power of an air elemental can probably pick apart a werebear from a distance (a vertical distance if nothing else). And the same for a wererat, a werewolf, a Frankenstein monster, an ogre, or anything short of an actual dragon form.

 

Also I'd think that anyone who learns both Suppress Multiform and Suppress Shapeshift could shut down most Mutt builds as they were defined in the original post. I mean, someone could build a Mutt with a multipower which has certain slots which can only be used with certain hero ID's (slots 1-3 can be used only as Wolfman, slots 4-6 can only be used as Dragonman, etc.)...but the concept of Mutts would seem to funnel people into thinking of Shapeshift and Multiforms rather than more awkward constructions which achieve much the same thing.

 

 

[mallet]

For sure, but this is a role-playing game, and Hero in particular, so any two 350pt characters should be roughly equal in power. So a 350pt Brick/Martial Artist (Mutt) would probably be able to but up a good fight against a 350pt Energy Blaster (Magier).

 

If Mutts are kept "weaker" by the storyline/rules, then you probably aren't going to get many players choosing to play one of them. 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

This seems like a really lousy system for a game.  You're baking concept superiority right into the class system. 

 

A magier or master can have a massive array of options available to them.  Flight, ranged attacks, transforms, force walls, damage shields, mental powers, only really limited by the player's ability to justify "This is related to my element because". 

A morph gets to hulk out and gain animal powers.  Not even "any animal" powers, just hopping from one specific form to another.  Pretty underwhelming compared to the ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER of "do anything" a magier or master gets.  Seems like it'd be the dumb combat monkey option.  And as a further penalty, anyone who looks at them knows their transformation! 

A mutt gets one power, period.  Why would this even be a PC option?  Anything you can think of you should be able to take as a morph, magier, or master and have other things too. 

[archer]

3 hours ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

This seems like a really lousy system for a game.  You're baking concept superiority right into the class system. 

 

A magier or master can have a massive array of options available to them.  Flight, ranged attacks, transforms, force walls, damage shields, mental powers, only really limited by the player's ability to justify "This is related to my element because". 

A morph gets to hulk out and gain animal powers.  Not even "any animal" powers, just hopping from one specific form to another.  Pretty underwhelming compared to the ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER of "do anything" a magier or master gets.  Seems like it'd be the dumb combat monkey option.  And as a further penalty, anyone who looks at them knows their transformation! 

A mutt gets one power, period.  Why would this even be a PC option?  Anything you can think of you should be able to take as a morph, magier, or master and have other things too. 

 

D&D survived for years with their earlier editions where fighters got severely outclassed once mages started accessing spells like Fireball. Some people just want to play their concept and don't care much about long-term power as compared to another character. That's not something which appeals to me but to each their own.

 

Now to diversify the Morphs, note the original post didn't specify "animal powers". If the setting includes basilisks with petrifying gaze, that'd seem to fit the theme as described. Or a green dragon which has a gas attack, black dragon with acid, or any other fantasy monster which might be in the setting. In theory, a morph could become a pixie and be tiny, fly, turn invisible at will, cast charms, and shoot things with a cute little magical bow.

[Spence]

This is all obvious, but we should remember that there are very few fantasy books that translate straight into an RPG.  Unless of course the book is based on a RPG.  In a book/novel the author controls everything including miraculous coincidence.  In an RPG, not only is there a rule system, usually with some type of "balance" system. But the players are controlling their PC's and doing their own thing. 

 

At best you can use setting as a guide and then build something similar for the game.

[Tywyll]

I'm a bit flabbergasted by people complaining about this.

 

I mean, in any fantasy game where you have casters and non-casters the casters are almost always 'the most powerful' by dint of versatility. Even in Hero where two characters might have the same points and therefore be 'balanced', no amount of STR or CON or skills helps a non-caster take out a flying, lightning spraying wizard with a ward vs missiles. Just having the potential to exceed human options (with flight, invisibility, etc) makes casters routinely more powerful/versatile/etc.  

 

And yet... the games persist. People play fighters, barbarians, rogues, etc. D&D was worst about this, though the original editions kept play balance with the non-casters having increasingly better saves and spells being so easily disrupted. Modern editions, especially 3.X, ruined that and gave us Linear Fighters and Quadratic Wizards, where there was little point to playing non-casters. Hero is better than that, but if you have a magic system, there is usually little incentive not to invest in it.

 

This setting just sounds like it has four magic systems that work differently and allow different schticks, which seems cool to me.