Thugs/Gangs/Agent Hazards?

[Tywyll]

So I got my book yesterday and am trying to make my way through it. I love that it includes a section on hazards that a super might want to stop (IN YOUR FACE ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO CLAIM HERO CAN'T DO THAT!). 

 

Anyway, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around using Hazards for thugs/gangs/agents.

 

Could someone write some examples up to show how to use them this way? Like what would a gang hazard look like versus some Viper Agent style goons? Group of SWAT officers versus soldiers?

 

I love the idea of it, I just can't quite wrap my head around the implementation.

[Michael Hopcroft]

On 5/21/2020 at 2:08 AM, Tywyll said:

So I got my book yesterday and am trying to make my way through it. I love that it includes a section on hazards that a super might want to stop (IN YOUR FACE ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO CLAIM HERO CAN'T DO THAT!). 

 

Anyway, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around using Hazards for thugs/gangs/agents.

 

Could someone write some examples up to show how to use them this way? Like what would a gang hazard look like versus some Viper Agent style goons? Group of SWAT officers versus soldiers?

 

I love the idea of it, I just can't quite wrap my head around the implementation.

 

This occurred to me when I read this post. It's from my Motivator library.

 

 

A VIPER Five-Team would be an interesting case. Each member of the team has their own role in a mission -- I'll have to read up on how that actually works in the main Champions Universe. The GM shoujld still be able to direct the team in such a way that each individual member's talents are utilized without becoming unwieldly. That would a high-level Hazard that PCs will have to sweat to overcome.

 

Just how much so will depend on the abilities of your PCs. In any version, Batman wipes the floor with most thugs but is challenged by more formidable foes.Ron Edwards seems to be writing that into the rules.

[pawsplay]

I have the concept down, I think. What I'm a little iffy on is the "typical" numbers.

 

Gang of Tommy Gun toting thematic thugs spraying down bullets

Defense: Missile Deflection

Effect: 4d6 Piercing Blast in a cone / 6d6 Entangle if you get up in their faces

Let's imagine there's ten of them, sort of clustered together. Each "hex" is an ordinary person with DCV 6, Defense 0, and Body 10, with SPD of 2 and a move of 6 hexes. They also have a 2d6 Presence against presence attacks.

So on their turn, everyone in their general area takes a bunch of damage unless they can make a Missile Deflection check, and things like Force Wall mitigate the effect. If you are punching or grabbing them, you instead get hit with an Entangle.

On your turn, you can try to take out one or more hexes. So lets say you have 6d6 Blast and shoot at one. On a hit, you do 6 or so damage, so without extra effort you can probably take out one every other round pretty easily.  If you have Mind Control, you can target each one individually with their Ego 11 and if you win, remove that "hex" from the hazard. Once all the hexes have been cleared, they are no longer a hazard. If they are conscious, they are defeated, or at least they can't do anything to attack. Maybe a thug starts pointing his gun and the hero just grabs it out of his hand and slaps the thug upside the head with it.

Given the nature of suppression fire, heroes behind large objects aren't necessarily targeted. So against this hazard, squishier heroes without Missile Deflection probably hang back until they can move in and take out a smaller number of foes. The bad guys, in turn, can't do anything threatening unless they are staying more or less together as a hazard. One nameless thug can't duck behind a pillar and snipe someone.

[Michael Hopcroft]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:44 PM, pawsplay said:

I have the concept down, I think. What I'm a little iffy on is the "typical" numbers.

 

Gang of Tommy Gun toting thematic thugs spraying down bullets

Defense: Missile Deflection

Effect: 4d6 Piercing Blast in a cone / 6d6 Entangle if you get up in their faces

Let's imagine there's ten of them, sort of clustered together. Each "hex" is an ordinary person with DCV 6, Defense 0, and Body 10, with SPD of 2 and a move of 6 hexes. They also have a 2d6 Presence against presence attacks.

So on their turn, everyone in their general area takes a bunch of damage unless they can make a Missile Deflection check, and things like Force Wall mitigate the effect. If you are punching or grabbing them, you instead get hit with an Entangle.

On your turn, you can try to take out one or more hexes. So lets say you have 6d6 Blast and shoot at one. On a hit, you do 6 or so damage, so without extra effort you can probably take out one every other round pretty easily.  If you have Mind Control, you can target each one individually with their Ego 11 and if you win, remove that "hex" from the hazard. Once all the hexes have been cleared, they are no longer a hazard. If they are conscious, they are defeated, or at least they can't do anything to attack. Maybe a thug starts pointing his gun and the hero just grabs it out of his hand and slaps the thug upside the head with it.

Given the nature of suppression fire, heroes behind large objects aren't necessarily targeted. So against this hazard, squishier heroes without Missile Deflection probably hang back until they can move in and take out a smaller number of foes. The bad guys, in turn, can't do anything threatening unless they are staying more or less together as a hazard. One nameless thug can't duck behind a pillar and snipe someone.

Batman has been known to take these down repeatedly, without any powers and usually without even armor (Whether the Batman: TAS version wears armor is unclear -- he doesn't look like he does.) How does he do it in a what heroes in CN can replicate?

 

[nitrosyncretic]

3 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

Batman has been known to take these down repeatedly, without any powers and usually without even armor (Whether the Batman: TAS version wears armor is unclear -- he doesn't look like he does.) How does he do it in a what heroes in CN can replicate?

 

 

Check out the rules for normals on 160. That answers your question.

[pawsplay]

Batman has Missile Deflection.

Apart from that, he can move into the hazard's area, where it works like an Entangle, and start taking them out with his high SPD. As long as there isn't room for them to regroup and use their Blast, he doesn't have to worry about armor.

[Tywyll]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:44 PM, pawsplay said:

I have the concept down, I think. What I'm a little iffy on is the "typical" numbers.

 

Gang of Tommy Gun toting thematic thugs spraying down bullets

Defense: Missile Deflection

Effect: 4d6 Piercing Blast in a cone / 6d6 Entangle if you get up in their faces

Let's imagine there's ten of them, sort of clustered together. Each "hex" is an ordinary person with DCV 6, Defense 0, and Body 10, with SPD of 2 and a move of 6 hexes. They also have a 2d6 Presence against presence attacks.

So on their turn, everyone in their general area takes a bunch of damage unless they can make a Missile Deflection check, and things like Force Wall mitigate the effect. If you are punching or grabbing them, you instead get hit with an Entangle.

On your turn, you can try to take out one or more hexes. So lets say you have 6d6 Blast and shoot at one. On a hit, you do 6 or so damage, so without extra effort you can probably take out one every other round pretty easily.  If you have Mind Control, you can target each one individually with their Ego 11 and if you win, remove that "hex" from the hazard. Once all the hexes have been cleared, they are no longer a hazard. If they are conscious, they are defeated, or at least they can't do anything to attack. Maybe a thug starts pointing his gun and the hero just grabs it out of his hand and slaps the thug upside the head with it.

Given the nature of suppression fire, heroes behind large objects aren't necessarily targeted. So against this hazard, squishier heroes without Missile Deflection probably hang back until they can move in and take out a smaller number of foes. The bad guys, in turn, can't do anything threatening unless they are staying more or less together as a hazard. One nameless thug can't duck behind a pillar and snipe someone.

 

Thanks! That helps.

[assault]

On 5/24/2020 at 6:44 AM, pawsplay said:

Gang of Tommy Gun toting thematic thugs spraying down bullets

Defense: Missile Deflection

Effect: 4d6 Piercing Blast in a cone / 6d6 Entangle if you get up in their faces

I've been reviewing this stuff again.

 

First, other defenses could include Stealth, Invisibility and so on. If they don't know you are there, they can't/won't shoot you. Under some circumstances they might be able to fire blindly. For example, they might know you are there, but not exactly where you are. Obviously they would be at some kind of penalty for that - perhaps the effect would be reduced ("few bullets hit").

 

Another thing that has occurred to me is that the suggested base Active Point value (60) is fairly high. For example, if the thugs were using Ray Guns, built as a straight unmodified Blast, heroes could end up taking some pretty nasty attacks.

 

Do they need to factor in the Area Effect stuff into the cost? That would make things saner. Otherwise you would have thugs throwing around attacks bigger than those of many heroes!

 

Obviously the real answer is to tailor each Hazard on a case by case basis.

 

pawsplay's example seems to do this.

[pawsplay]

Well I don't think you can rely on Invisibility or Stealth once they have detected you. That's one way to avoid the hazard.

[Tywyll]

On 2/18/2021 at 1:14 AM, assault said:

I've been reviewing this stuff again.

 

First, other defenses could include Stealth, Invisibility and so on. If they don't know you are there, they can't/won't shoot you. Under some circumstances they might be able to fire blindly. For example, they might know you are there, but not exactly where you are. Obviously they would be at some kind of penalty for that - perhaps the effect would be reduced ("few bullets hit").

 

Another thing that has occurred to me is that the suggested base Active Point value (60) is fairly high. For example, if the thugs were using Ray Guns, built as a straight unmodified Blast, heroes could end up taking some pretty nasty attacks.

 

Do they need to factor in the Area Effect stuff into the cost? That would make things saner. Otherwise you would have thugs throwing around attacks bigger than those of many heroes!

 

Obviously the real answer is to tailor each Hazard on a case by case basis.

 

pawsplay's example seems to do this.

Yeah, I thought 60 AP seemed ultra high...especially if there are like 5-10 goons! Does that mean that one hero get's hit with 5-10 attacks, or can you only take damage from a Hazard once per phase?

[marediv]

Which book are you referring to