Jeff

Re: What about using EGO Effects? For a +1 Advantage, I'd certainly hope the GM would find it acceptable - you're paying a huge price for it. It might be better to borrow some advantages from Transform and adapt them to Mind Control. There's a +1/4 Advantage there for a limited range of things into which to Transform the target, and a +1/2 one for partially Transforming the target if you haven't (yet) got enough effect for the full change. A Mind Contol counterpart to Improved Target Group might be Conditional Command - for a +1/4 advantage, the command given the target will depend on the level of effect, for this application - it might depend on another condition for other effects. In this case, you get the "attack your friends" command if you get an EGO + 30 effect roll, or the easier "stand around" one if it falls short of EGO + 30. Throw in a single command limitation to make this the only thing you can do with the Mind Control. A Mind Control counterpart to Partial Transform might be Partial Control. If you don't manage the full power effect you were after, you get some milder version based on what you can manage. If you don't manage "attack your friends", you might pull off "don't support your friends" or "don't attack your enemies"; if you don't manage either of those even, you might get "don't attack your best target" or "don't use your most appropriate attack"; if you don't even manage that, you might get "don't Push your attack".

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How to quantify a super's superiority over normals? Okay. What does "100 times more dexterous" mean? It looks to me like a place not to expect satisfying quantification.

Re: Re: Re: How to quantify a super's superiority over normals? Double the Duplicates, double the Summoned creatures, double the vehicles, double the Followers, double the non-combat velocity, double the different Multiforms, double the number of identical systems/foci (controversial), double the Change Environment area, double the folks in the Mind Link, double the Clairsentience range, double the Density Increase increased density, double the Teleport or EDM extra mass, double the Growth mass, double the (non-combat) Stretching stretching. It's not an unusual mechanic.

Right, enough boggling - How do you do that?

I like to think that all or most of what 4th edition background has going for it over 5th edition is just (a) quantity, and ( familiarity. And when you can co-opt the old stuff into the new background - plenty will fit, I think you're worst off if you're a Genocide fan - even that's not a problem. When I'm not trying to be optimistic, and when I'm not riding the powerful high of NEW HERO STUFF, it's harder not to feel a bit let-down. CKC, for instance, ends up looking more bigger than Classic Enemies than better. You've got master villains so powerful that they just make heroes look irrelevant more than challenged, really boring villains (Anubis, Zorran), and some that manage to be both (Holocaust, Gravitar). Even Black Paladin seems to be a bit less evil because the evil's stretched out over excess paragraphs.

I figure turning off the magic shut the doors that kept having folks wander into our dimension. That, or turning off the magic made them lose interest. Heck, maybe both.

Raise the limit if you need to. It's one of the things you do in making a campaign run and feel the way you want it to. For that matter, maybe there should be a limit on how much disadvantage a character should have in a grab-all like Physical Limitations - or in curses that can be defined that way. After all, if you think there's a need for a limit on the points from Physical Limitations, it's hard to see why you wouldn't think there should be a limit on the number of points from Physical Limitations plus curses that have the same effects. Then don't do that one with a Physical Limitation. It's a Side Effect on a power, if it's a power that's got a persistently undesireable effect. Of course it's not going to be reflected by "Cannot touch people who have no ill-intentions against her". It's not an argument that you need new mechanics because you can't do X with limitations on a power when you can do it with existing disadvantages, nor is it an argument that you need new mechanics because you can't do X with disadvantages when you can do it with existing or available limitations. Congratulations - you've defined the power you're looking for. If you can't help but use it, like it or not, you're looking at Always On and/or No Conscious Control. If it's got problems assocaited with it that aren't adequately handled with those, consider Side Effects or disadvantages. I don't follow this one. Attracting people you don't want to attract might well be something with both benefits and problems - in which case, buying it as both a few points of COM/PRE and as a disadvantage might be square-on. This is a narrower interepretation of the disadvantage than reading its description would bear out. Increased detectablity is routinely bought as a Physical Limitation. It's required nowadays for being large, since always on Growth is now taboo.

Most of the suggestions were disadvantages, and the curses suggested also look like disadvantages. Someone whose appearance is specifically and unusually offensive to the opposite sex would have it as a Distinctive Feature or Social Limitation. I guess you could do that one with limitations on COM and PRE (probably including the base 10 points too), but I'd think that was kludgy too. Being persistently detectable by enemies looks like Distinctive Features - certainly an unusual variety of them, but certainly something that can be modelled appropriately with that disad. Frequent muscle pulls with damage defined like that is tailor-made as a Susceptability. If you're teleported off in some inconvenient, unwanted direction whenever "why?" is uttered in your presence, you've got yourself one weird Susceptibility. You just figure out an equivalence of the effect as an attack with the damage values for Susceptability - probably leaning on the much more detailed section on Side Effects for help there. Just as with skills, perks, talents, powers, limitation, and frameworks, Hero System disadvantages are game mechanics meant to be used for a wide variety of effects, in whatever genre. You don't need a "Curse" disadvantage - you just use whatever disadvantage provides the effect of the curse you're looking for.

Re: Charge main cannons! It can't be the only way, but one option might be to treat this as how Real Weapon plays out for a science-fiction energy weapon of this sort. It strikes me as analagous to the miscellaneous problems with slugthrowers or actual blades that that limitation sums up for them.

Re: Powers as disadvantages This'd be a Side Effect. Alternatively, you could buy it as a Susceptability to the use of one's own power. Got a few ways to do this. One of the weirder ways would be No Conscious Control on COM. I don't recommend it. Otherwise, this is one likely effect of Distinctive Features, a source of unusual and really unwanted DNPC's maybe, a Social Limitation, or an unusual sort of Watched. (If it gets to the point of stalking, it might be a Mildly Punish or even Harshly Punish. I don't think Grond, for instance, has the emotional maturity to handle unrequited adoration safely....) Another odd Distinctive Feature, or an unusual source of that "very easy to find" Hunted bonus. Side Effects here too. I think the problem might not be a need for new mechanics so much as to explore some unconventional applications of existing disadvantage types and limitations.

Ha! You young whippersnappers! I did one of those way back before your new-fangled Megascale. It was 3rd edition (tops - I'm not completely certain it wasn't 2nd - loooong time ago), using Instant Change back when it was a power still and a whole lotta doubled AE. Came to 68 real points, it did.

One way to do heavy versus light stun as different MP slots may be to have light stun trade off some damage-enhancing advantages for reduced or zero END - if it's a lower power setting, it's plausibly one that uses less energy.

I'm fond of Dispels vs. Knockback Resistance, does knockback (+1/4), double knockback (+3/4). Mostly it's for knockback causing dice at 3 points base each; if the target actually has knockback resistance, well, it's convenient if it can be neutralized too. Get it with no range and linked to STR then use it in multiple powers attacks and you're set. If it keeps the ranged capability and is unrelated to strength, it does what I consider a nice repulsor beam effect. You can also run it on a non-targeting sense Flash attack. The classic brick deafening hand-clap that sends people flying around would be an example. A touch group Flash might be interpreted as some sort of weird numbing touch combined with a throw. Smell/taste Flashes that do double knockback - well, they're hard to describe in polite company but maybe suitable for really disgusting villains.

Nice breakdown. I've sometimes toyed with doing some powered armor as an automaton that the operator happens to occupy. Weapons might be bought as usable by one other instead (+1/4), with an "operator only" limitation on that advantage, so that it's using the operator's OCV and firing on his/her phases.

Re: Weapons Question 2: Silver Bullets Nothing new - I'm right up there on the "just the special effect" bandwagon, and you shouldn't have to pay specifically in order to have an attack that the other guy gets points for being vulnerable to. I'm just curious about the basis for the player insisting this should cost more? Is it "higher monetary cost should mean higher point cost" (!), is it "some folks out there are specially vulnerable to this" (! again), or something plausible that's not occurring to me as an alternative?

I think it is already. 1" Flight gets you no faster movement than you had already, with 2" Swimming, 2" Leaping, and 6" Running. You have to get 3" before you're faster than your base off-the-ground movement, or 7" before you're faster than your normal horizontal movement. Before that, it's basically just a non-persistent sort of LS: Immune to Falling.

You do still have the turn mode problem. Practically, Running plus the limited Clinging is going to be better in many ways. My problem with it is that it's just a bit silly - my suspension of disbelief is strained at runs straight up walls or over oceans on account of sheer speed, and if it is supposed to be simple ultrafast running, why _is_ there that turn mode problem suddenly? Nah. It's a way to get surface movement without a need for a surface that's supporting you. Why you're supposed to get that, on the other hand, is another question.

Running would be far too attractive at 1 point per 1"; Flight would be far too unattractive at 3 points per 1"; Running has no turn mode; and you get 6" of it free, while you have to start at 0" for Flight.

The FAQ suggests 24 hours as a guideline for the minimum time interval between effective re-application of Healing. If that's based on the normal rate of recovering BODY, would an appropriate minimum time interval for END or STUN Healing be any shorter? Normally, they recover every turn.

I've always liked Seeker. Sure, it's Crocadile Dundee Meets Jackie Chan, but that's pleasantly off-the-wall - as opposed to the firmly, militantly on-the-wall 5E Champions. Defender's lost that quirky urge to outthink instead of outfight the enemy. Sapphire doesn't have Quantum's abrasiveness, which was the best roleplaying hook possessed by either edition team's characters put together. But between the Widget, 4E Defender's quirks, Seeker's odd background, Jaguar's form conflicts, and Quantum's attitude, you have far more texture hands-down than you get with the bland, stereotypical 5E bunch. You don't want a prominent-in-the-game hero team to leave the PC's utterly in the dust as a matter of course. PC's are there to shine. Also, it's enough for the prominent signature team to represent a standard of heroism and to be in a position to garner media attention. That at least and at 350 points the 5E Champions manage well enough.

There's logical space for enhancers for some Perks that don't already have them. Some of them might be especially useful for Champions play. I wanted to kick out a few proposals for any commentary. Follower loyalty: For +5 points, followers are excpetionally loyal, with the equivalent of strong psychological limitations to obey or support the character. For +10 points, they are totally loyal, with the equivalent of total psychological limitations to obey or support the character. (I wouldn't think you'd need to buy these in the case of automaton followers, if for no other reason than grandfathering.) Mastermind: The character commands especially vast and diverse resources. Mastermind costs 50 points. When purchased, the character selects two of the following Perk categories for it: Followers, Bases, Computers, Vehicles, and Contacts. The character receives free of additional cost a number of points in the second category equal to the number purchased for the first category. For instance, Dr. Kinda purchases Mastermind for Followers and Bases for 50 points. Dr. Kinda has 120 points spent on Followers, the primary category for his Mastermind enhancer. Mastermind provides him 120 points toward Bases to go with his Followers. Mastermind can be purchased multiple times to add additional categories. To continue the example, if Dr. Kinda purchased Mastermind again for Computers, he would receive points toward both Bases and Computers for points spent ofn Followers.

Re: Re: What IS Ultimate Might be more appropriately called "The Ultimate Munchkin".... More practically, "The Ultimate Villain" as a sourcebook for supervillain creation, motivation, care and feeding would be welcome. There's a bit of this in "Champions", but more could certainly be useful.

I'd figure slightly less powerful would be in the 250 point range. If the 350 point hero's got 60-70 active point powers, the SLP DNPC might have them in the 45-50 point range. It would be more complicated if the DNPC isn't built as a typical hero with the usual batch of attacks, defenses, and movement.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Changes from 4th to 5th Edition If you don't increase the cost of vehicle defenses, or put very low caps on them, you get bizarre results for the points for vehicle on vehicle combat too. 60 points will get you a 4d6 RKA, doing 14 BODY on an average roll. Unlike KA STUN values, you get a serious bell curve for 3, 4 or more d6 on the BODY values - the extreme results are fairly rare. 60 points of standard vehicle DEF will get you 20 points resistant PD and ED. So you need significantly more active points in attacks before you even begin to penetrate a little on an average roll. Mind you, you might be more easily able to pile on more limitations on the attacks to get comparable real point costs - maybe - and the system tends to have somewhat higher active point totals for attacks than for defenses. But you still get vehicles that have a far, far harder time getting hurt than characters do, just because the game's damage system assumes that most significant damage is going to be STUN damage rather than BODY damage.

Judging from an hour going at it for Instant Change - I thought it'd be the easiest one for the search engine - I think you're right on that one.