Christougher

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

I also had another thought, just to add fuel to the fire... But not yet to be combined with previous.

My head always made the association of halving the attack with Damage Reduction, and in the comment on Soak not being surmountable by anything other than sheer dice... What if the first soaked attack was equal to 3/4 damage reduction (yeah I know, aggravate the problem), the second was 1/2 reduction, the third 1/4 reduction, and a fourth provided no reduction at all.

Chris.

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

I've never heard of Indirect meaning the attack can't be blocked - is that a change from 5th to 6th, or did I just miss it somewhere? (Yes, actually asking for a rules quote here.) And that is specifically the kind of argument that counters the reason I suggested ignoring advantages. This is why I put it up for discussion. Or was that dissection? Forcing me to defend my assumptions just tests their validity. Pending an answer on Indirect, Soaking shouldn't ignore advantages.

I never perceived it for Bricks specifically(no disagreement with your comments on), I expected the middle to lower DEF characters to use it, the same ones who would Block or Dodge. In a game where 60 AP is average, that's 42 STUN vs a Light Defender with 24 or 20 DEF, that's 18-22 STUN lost, often enough to Stun the target. If LD chooses to soak, halving that 42 to 21 gives a pretty even chance to ignore the attack, hopefully similar odds to a dodge or block.

The DCV penalty is interesting and appropriate. However, I wonder if 0 DCV goes too far - it makes the attack almost impossible to miss, raising the possible chances of Soak failure. I think 1/2 DCV would be better.

Chris.

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

It takes a damage roll of 51 or greater to defeat Parry' date=' the AP attack,designed to lower the DEF of its targets, (the mechanic Parry uses) is [b']penalised[/b] and can NEVER beat it and the 10d6 only very rarely.

 

My conclusion, is that Parry has a chance of success far out of line with its failure chance. The advantages that would apply to damage vs DEF mechanics are being nullified by fiat, not reason, since the manuver uses that very mechanic to determine success or failure.

A fair point, given that those advantages directly affect the mechanic. No similar mechanic has that kind of effect on Combat Value, so it seemed fair not to penalize the new mechanic. It wasn't Armor Piercing that gave me pause, it was Penetrating. That advantage would mean that Parry automatically fails, something that doesn't happen with Block or Dodge.

Soak isn't a bad name for the mechanic. I've never heard of the Brace for Impact rule that Thia mentioned, but that might confuse some with Brace.

In neither case does D's manuver have an affect on the mechanics of A's attack' date=' it just determines the success or failure of actually striking D.[/quote']

 

This to me is the line that makes all the difference. The new maneuver should be as effective as Dodge or Block - a reasonable chance to completely stop the attack. The intent of ignoring advantages was only for resolution of the mechanic, no application of damage. Of course with a new untested mechanic, it's hard to say whether that's right in the long run or not. Will Soaking become overused because its too effective, or will Armor Piercing and Penetrating attacks become more common to compensate?

 

Chris.

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

I wish I had this in an email, because commenting inline that way is just easier than it is here, but regardless. This conversation got a little heated, and it's unlikely that my response is going to be viewed any more favorably in the vein of "So all anyone can do is quote rules, etc.?" Well, this is HERO. Quoting rules is kind of what we do. In 99.99% of all cases, there is already a rule, option, or function that does the thing in question. So today we're going to talk about Parry as an optional maneuver. Fine with me. I like to Parry things with my ego.

 

Seriously. Ask anyone. What's funny is that it works about 10% of the time! The other 90, I just get a bruised ego.

 

I say this without malice: My opinion, officially, is that Block already handles the job at hand, and we have Counter (and other follow-through maneuvers) that work nicely after a block is delivered. For me, Parrying is a setup to handle the next attack. With that said.

Agreed, inline quotes are annoying but doable.

Everyone's getting hung up on Parry as a name, so lets just call it Unnamed DEF-based Maneuver or UDM for now.

UDM is a 0 OCV, 0 DCV, 1/2 Phase, Abort as you're describing it, halves damage before defenses, and is guaranteed to work, except when it fails.

So I receive... 10 BODY, 40 STUN. We halve the damage up front before DEF is applied: 5 BODY, 20 STUN. The UDM is successful if the remaining defenses (I'm assuming you mean my listed defenses; armor, iron skin, etc.) soak the damage. It fails if even 1 point of STUN gets through.

Correct, essentially identical to the effects of Block or Dodge, just with a different defense-based resolution mechanic.

1) I believe it was noted prior, but this is very brick-heavy. I would be more inclined to build it as a Brick-Trick than I would an everyman defense

2) It's math based, more so than other attacks. Yes, while "more dice" would solve the problem of how to overcome it, I don't like the balance.

For 1) I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing; Block and Dodge are very CV heavy, even more so with cheap Martial Arts costs. And for 2) you raise a fair point, though I'm not sure how to change that balance, but Grailknight's comment has merit.

Hence' date=' when I look at it, I just don't see a need being fulfilled or a gap in the system.[/quote']

 

It's more of an APG idea, a third way to do something we already have two of.

 

Chris.

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

Your proposed maneuver is unbalanced in favor of the defender.

 

Average DEF is 2-3x the average DC of attacks. Each DC does 3.5 pts of damage. Half of 3.5(1.75) will almost always be less than the DEF of the target. So, barring above average rolls against below average DEF, the proposed manuver will always negate the incoming attack. In addition, you propose to ignore advantages on the attack, which negates Armor Piercing and possibly Penetrating. Those advantages are designed to let smaller die attacks affect larger DEF's. Since your proposal says you are using your DEF to ward off the attack, how are the DEF NOT affected by the attack which strikes them?

All it's intended to be is another variation on Dodge or Block. Another mechanic to completely avoid an attack if it succeeds.

Yes, it ignores those advantages *only for the purpose of avoiding the attack.* If the maneuver fails, the defender still takes full damage including advantages. Why does it ignore them? Primarily because Dodge and Block ignore them. And secondarily because of the math involved and the possibility of those advantages making the maneuver useless - there is no advantage that makes it immune to Dodge or Block. (Yes, Area Effect, but that changes the mechanics used. Okay, a point worth considering then.)

Chris.

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

So, aside from complaints about naming or quoting a rulebook at me, nobody has an opinion about the mechanic and whether or how it works?

Chris.

Re: Parry. A third defense option.

If you do that Parry becomes WAY overpowered (halving the damage from the vast majority of attacks will result in no damage getting through defenses far too often' date=' especially for brick types with high defenses). Add to the fact that this is a no-roll defense you have basically created a way to prevent damage almost all the time. It is also uncounterable. Dodge is countered by higher OCV, as is Block, but the only counter to your parry example is more dice of damage. [/quote']

 

Either you didn't read and understand it clearly, or I didn't explain it well enough. A successful Block or Dodge means NO effect, therefore a Parry should also. It is no more powerful, as you have to give up your attack to use it, just like those maneuvers. And yes, a good roll or more dice can counter it, the same way a good roll or high OCV can counter the other two. If countered, then Parry offers no bonus, just like the other two.

 

I am also not sure what the special effect of a Parry is supposed to be here. Parrying a weapon is when you use another weapon to deflect a blow aimed at you. Your defenses are in no way involved in that exchange. However your example of Parry ONLY cares about what your defenses are. A Brick who picked up a sword for the first time would be better at parrying (due to his high defenses) than the best swordsman in the world (with lower defenses).

 

Parry is actually a Block with a weapon (Blocking a weapon with your bare hands can be a rather bad idea after all, reflected by penalties to a block roll for doing so as suggested on 6e2 58)

 

Parry is a proposed maneuver, it is intended to be special effect independent.

 

Finally, I do not see how conceptually Parry is anything like RwaP, Also note that RwaP DOES require an attack roll (at -2), and also suffers from increased knockback (rolls one less die to counter). Your proposed Parry offers no downside and you would know, based upon the strength of the attack, whether or not it would likely be of any use to you.

 

There may be an opening in the combat maneuvers for a different way to defend against an attack, but I do not believe this is it.

 

Maybe I can see how you missed it; when I first described Parry as a maneuver I didn't actually mention RwP, just its effect of cutting damage in half. Except that I also pointed out that applying it after defenses doesn't create the intended effect and moved the halving to before defenses were applied.

 

Please don't quote the rules back at me; I know what the RwP rules are. I'm proposing to change them. I want a different mechanic for avoiding an attack. Damage based instead of CV based.

 

Chris.

Nothing's wrong with Block and Dodge; but Parry is often thrown around in the same context. Can we build an everyman Parry maneuver, and make it different from Block and Dodge? Block and Dodge are both half-phase, phase ending actions, can be aborted to, completely negate an attack but have a chance of failing to work. Dodge is based on defense, Block is based on offense, what can we base Parry on? How about defenses? There's already Roll With the Punch, so let's turn RwP into Parry.

Parry becomes a half phase, phase ending action, can be aborted to... but halves the damage after defenses, and it doesn't have the chance to fail like the other maneuvers. So, lets move the halving of damage up front, before defenses are applied; the Parry succeeds if the remaining defenses stop what is left of the attack. If any effect (typically STUN) gets past the remaining defenses, the Parry fails and the character takes the full attack against his normal defenses. Because advantages such as Armor Piercing and Penetrating have no effect on Block or Dodge, those advantages are not counted when determining if the Parry succeeds, they do still apply if the Parry fails.

It's still just an idea that hasn't been playtested yet, posted here for thoughts and comments.

Chris.

Re: "Neat" Pictures

No platinum blonde?

This reminds me of my entry in the silly superhero names thread: The Plutonium Blonde.

Chris.

Re: Future Guns: Projectile Obsolete?

For my Master of Orion Hero setting, I made certain that projectiles were still relevant and different by instituting a simple universal rule. Physical weapons were twice as effective against shields compared to energy weapons. Of course, the reverse being true for physical armors (energy weapons twice as effective) kept the arms race interesting.

Chris.

Re: Wish List: Other Licensed Content

For me, it's Masters of Orion HERO. I ran it for my tabletop group, and have piles of notes and data on my hard drive.

What's not to love? A dozen or so alien races, each with special characteristics that you can build in HERO. Rapidly advancing technology with different special effects that you can build in HERO. Politics, espionage, combat, all that you can build in HERO...

I'd actually probably write it myself if I could get the license or do it as an APG for Star Hero, but I'm stuck in 4th/5th edition.

Chris.

Re: Armor, and it's place in highly futuristic Science-Fiction

For gaming? Most definitely. No PC will want to be killed outright in one shot, and Combat Luck isn't perfect.

As Asperion said, Armor will continue to be used only so long as its benefits outweigh the drawbacks. When weapons evolved to defeat heavy plate armor, the use of same declined. It wasn't until relatively recently that armor evolved that protected against firearms. It doesn't even have to protect absolutely - witness Kevlar vs knives or Stormtrooper armor which is supposedly good against knives and projectiles even if not so good against blasters. Benefit vs drawback.

In my Master of Orion Hero game, I want to reflect the rapid advancement of technology. So I started back at square one, to watch the evolution from vest and helmet to full plate-esque to fully enclosed suits to power armor. I also introduced a campaign ground rule that armors were half as effective against energy weapons, while shields were half as effective against physical weapons. Just to keep the arms race going and interesting. I also aimed very carefully at the level of protection offered at various tech levels, so they would stop almost all of an average hit from an equivalent weapon, because that feels like the sweet spot to me - armor is effective and useful when it stops most of the threats you face, but you still have to be careful or lucky.

Chris.

Re: Resistant Defence/Defence and Defence Powers: Active Point Limit

The old rule of thumb was minimum defenses of 1.5 times DCs, average of 2x and maximum of 2.5, with about half resistant. So with a 90 AP (18 DC) limit, you would be looking at minimum of 27 PD/27 ED, 13/13 resistant, average of 36(18r), and maximum of 45(22r). Sounds like a lot, but a 90 AP blast will deal 63 stun on average. Exotic defenses like Flash, Mental or Power would be capped at half that.

For my games, I found tying maximum defenses to maximum APs to work fairly well. 90 AP in straight PD/ED would be 45/45 average, or as Armor 30/30 resistant - and not 45 with 30 resistant! If you're going to layer other powers, you probably don't want the combined total to exceed 150% of the AP(135 points). In trying to ballpark averages and minimums, 75% and 50% of the AP cap seemed right. Of course, that also presumes that your minimum and average attack powers are going to be at the same percentages of the AP cap.

Chris.

6E1 pg 360 says a character may only grant a Usable By Others power on another as many times as he has charges for the power. It doesn't appear to cover how many Others the UBO has to apply to.

A character buys Life Support with 8 Continous Charges @ 1 Hour. Does he need to add Usable by One Other(+1/4), or Usable by 8 Others(+3/4)?

Chris.

Re: Is VPP overpowered/How do you properly use it?

Sounds more like a bad GM than a bad VPP. VPP's only inherent ability is flexibility, and there is a cost for that flexibility. But as an NPC with unlimited points, they can have that cake and eat your PCs too.

Chris.

Re: NBC Revolution

Now you tell me.

 

I will have to wait for the DVD release or hope that they recycle episodes between seasons. NOT going to start at episode 16, which is the earliest episode on the TNT website.

Sorry. If you have any kind of cable/DVR service, they just recently did a marathon of this season you might be able to catch. You need the first couple episodes to set the scene, but after that it is fairly episodic despite the overarching plot. You could PM me for the basics or maybe IMDB it.

Chris.

Re: Making Magic seem distinct.

As Gojira said, do you want to differentiate mechanics or capabilities?

You could build Divine magic as a change on the fly VPP, allowing them to call fprth whatever blessing they need. Make arcane magic a multipower where they can only create the effects they know, and have to pay for each spell.

Or rather than giving them the option of removing one of the required limitations, create multiple schools where each developed one such practice and require them to choose one.

Or take that a step further like I did for a fantasy game - I developed (okay, stole) four schools of magic, each represented by a subset of limitations that the other schools didn't have. Water magic required internal expenditure (Extra END or Side Effects), Earth magic required unique reusable foci, Air magic required Gestures and Incantations, and Fire magic required Valuable Expendable (usually flammable) components. Those limitations were mostly off limits to the other styles, but plenty of others were not, giving plenty of room for creativity while ensuring a consistent flavor.

It might be possible to do similar things with Advantages and specific Powers too. Hope that's enough ideas to get you started.

Chris.

Re: NBC Revolution

I've got mixed feelings about it from the previews, but I'll give it a shot. The eye candy and pseudo-midievalism catch my attention, but without an explanation /why/ *everything* went dark and why one man holds the key to turning things back on, I share some of your worry that it may be a bit one dimensional.

I'm also currently watching another post-apoc show - TNT's Falling Skies. Post alien invasion apocalypse, struggle for survival. Check it out if you haven't already.

Chris.

Re: Post apocalyptic HERO

I was given Post Apocalypse Hero as a gift, although it inspired a few ideas, I never actually got to the point of running it.

My first bit of advice: A week or two isn't enough prep time. At least for me; you may prefer to think on your feet.

The best suggestion I can give is to decide which of two diections to approach your game from:

either you have a post apocalyptic world in mind, and you need to work backwards to the apocalypse that caused it.

or you have a planned apocalypse and need to figure out what happens to the world afterwards.

Is it low or high powered normals or even superheroic. What powers and abilities are available, and what kind of equipment survived?

I may be able to dig up the book for more specific questions or advice.

Chris.

Re: Precision

1 he is powered up

Yep 6th ed now has 2 levels of percievible -1/4 and -1/4

I'm going to presume that second -1/4 is a typo and you didn't just prove my point for me. Even so, you're still missing that point: How are those stats Percievable, especially at that level? Does he walk around with a giant neon "+3 SPD" floating over his head lighting up a city block? And +5 DCV when you're concentrating at 0 DCV just doesn't work.

2 super heroes fly, shoot blasts from their eyes,and can survive and thrive at the bottom of the deepest parts of the ocean on less points and you have a problem with how far the cloak stretches

Yes I do. I want to suspend disbelief, not hang it from the neck until dead. Unless you're walking around with incredible lengths of cloak trailing on the floor behind you *it's hard to believe*. You defined the special effect as 'a cloak'. Not a magical cloak or a nanotechnology cloak or an unbelievium cloak. Any of those three or a dozen other reasons make sense, but mundane cloth?

3 no 400 w/ 75 pts of complications

Champions Complete is probably something you need ,as it will give you the info so you can have an informed view

I don't need it, I'm staying with 5th. I've clearly labeled anything I was unsure was different in 6th, and spotting logical errors doesn't depend on editions.

Chris.

Re: Precision

How are those stats and abilities Perceivable? In 5th Edition, Visible was only a -1/4 limitation, has 6E changed that? And at 0 DCV Concentration, most of them won't be very useful. Unless that Concentration is only to activate, which IIRC is less limitation.

With 130 feet of stretching and 100 foot cone, what is that cloak made of? Even if magical, it's a little hard to believe that level of power. I personally don't get/don't approve of Variable SFX representing martial arts, but others might.

I'm still a 5E guy, but doesn't 6E require 100 points in complications for a 400 point character?

Other than those probably major construction questions, he seems a relatively averagel character. Some background and flavor would be nice.

Chris.

Re: New Fantasy Hero Stuff From Steve: ACID MAGIC and LIGHTNING MAGIC

Two more:

Emotion Magic.

City Magic.

Chris.

Re: Guide Lines for Campaigns

The rule of thumb for defenses is that 2 to 2.5 times the average DCs is average. Maximum is usually pegged at 3.5 times DCs. So yes, 20 PD/20 ED is at the recommended cap. And only half that should be Resistant. If it's *all* resistant you ... run into your next problem.

Normal attacks are supposed to do lots of Stun, Killing attacks are supposed to do Body. If that's not possible due to your rules, change your rules. Just because it's possible to have 20 PDr/20 EDr versus 2d6K doesn't mean the GM should allow you to.

I've got a few rules of thumb worked out from experience with my group(your mileage may vary), maybe I'll polish it enough to post it. For damage(DCs) and defenses, about 75% of the AP cap is average, and below 50% is largely ineffective. So in the 80 AP(16 DC) game, average would be 60 AP(12 DCs), with a useful minimum of at least 40 AP(8 DC). As applied to defenses, splitting the AP at those levels into PD/ED gives a good maximum (40 max, 30 avg and min 20 PD/ED), with the maximum Armor for that AP as a cap on resistant defense (27 max, 20 avg, 13 min). You may have better success pegging average and minimum as 2/3rds and 1/3rd respectively. But if that Fantasy game has a 70 AP cap then a 2d6K average seems awful low.

Chris.

Re: So, I pulled my arm off to beat a guy...

Possibly altered Duplication with Mind Link if they act simultaneously; if not it could just be special effect of Clairsentience. The arm seems like a simple Hand Attack with small limitation that he can't use both arms while it's deployed.

Chris.

Re: New Fantasy Hero Stuff From Steve: ACID MAGIC and LIGHTNING MAGIC

Rather than run two threads, I'll copy my suggestion over here.

Home, Hearth and Life Magic

Antipaladin magic, something other than War, Death or Destruction.

Chris.