badger3k

Long ago, I thought there was a rule (maybe house) that flight would carry just what the character could lift. IIRC, points in flight could be used for speed or lifting power. In that spirit, I might limit the size/mass of the object that can be lifted, but IMO Flight would be the way to go. Anything else is too expensive.

Good points. Although technically, the attack powers in an EC can only be used one per phase (re a question I posed to Steve L on the board). So how would you use them? Nullify the EC/action restriction for beholders, or give them something like a 12-speed (only for eyestalks) maybe? Haven't looked at anything yet, but beholders were the first creature I thought of (since I'm currently reading the FR Underdark book - lots of good stuff for any underground campaign, IMO). Have yet to make them either, but the question of mechanics stuck in my head.

Re: Re: Need opinions on weapon ability I put that in since you can't choose to use it or not. In the critical hit situation it goes off whether you want it to or not. That may not be a limitation since, unless you are not fighting to kill a creature, turning it to stone may have the same virtual effect as killing it. Didn't consider the no-range limitation as already part of the link. I included the OAF since it would be part of the weapon its put on, so it would get it anyway - for example, a standard sword (long) is 30 active, 11 real in FH (p 164). Add this property (as written), the active cost is 165, and the real cost would be 26. Forgot - the transform would have the typical dispel magic as a default heal, but hadn't put in the delay on the normal healing of the transform. Appreciate the input.

Working with a system that a lot of people prefer not to name, I am transferring weapon properties to FH. Here's one I'd like opinions on - its from the "under-negative light" book - the stalactite property: The text: This property is normally reserved for bladed weapons. A stalactite blade resembles a long, thin stalactite instead of a standard blade. The difference in appearance does not affect the weapon statistics in any way. A critical hit with the weapon can turn the target to stone. OK - the meat and drink: 6d6 Major Transform, Target into stone, [90] Reduced END (0) (+1/2) Conditional Power: Only on critical Hit (-2) No Conscious Control (-2) No Range (-1/2) Linked to weapon attack (-1/4) All or Nothing transform (-1/2) OAF weapon (-1) Independent (-2) Active points: 135, Real points 15. The properties such as this one are intended to give simple conversion and/or weapon effects. They are not stand alone (i.e. they go with a weapon, whose power is variable). I used the -1/4 linked since I doubt any magic weapon will equal or exceed the 135 active point cost. I gave it the -2 conditional since it requires a 3 to be rolled to take effect. Although given the chances of that, I maybe could go with an 8d6 effect to make it really nasty. In the other game system its a 12th level effect, Fort DC 19 to save, +3 bonus. Any comments?

Gettin old - got myself confusd on this - Two characters each with the same speed. One has Dex 23, the other Dex 20. The 23 dex character stuns the other in a phase. Since character 2 goes after him, does he recover from being stunned the same phase - i.e he is half-dcv only during the time between Dex 23 and 20 on that same phase?

Re: Elemental Controls wee - the thread that won't die! Actually, one thing that ECs have going for them, to get back to the original question, is that they are easier to use for beginners. I let two players roll up the characters in the champs quick-start rules, and let them have the EC. Its easier to use than the MP if you're just learning the system. Later I can switch them.

Thanks - saves me digging up some old issues.

Let's hear it for knights in radiation-proof armor! Wasn't Gardner Fox the name of the lead (seems to fit)? Later they put him in a powered armor suit and gave him psychic powers. Liked the older stuff better.

Considering how far science has come in just the few years since comics began, a lot of what they used was amazing - some of it very funny, to some very accurate. Don't forget the 60s - 70s had a lot of war/cowboy comics too (Sgt Rock, Sgt Fury and his Howling Commandos, Black Hawk, the Rawhide Kid, etc). Those and the post-apocalypse ones - Kamandi and OMAC bring back fond memories too. Can't remember when they came out, but it was during the Kirby-era, IIRC. That might make an interesting campaign, I still think I have a giant size Kamandi (the one with the gorilla commandos), with a map of the world. Have to dig up my old issues on that. Those and what I consider some of the better Batman (Brave and the Bold, Detective Comics). Really gave the DarkKnight Detective meaning to his name, IMO. Don't remember the Captain Marvel who split up, though (or Jerry Lewis!). Maybe Jerry can team-up with Kiss, the Insane Clown Posse, and all those Wrestlers. A Mega-Deluxe Giant Size Annual One-Shot! That gave me some weird thoughts. What if characters such as Richie Rich, Hot Stuff, and Casper "grew up" (so to speak) into superheroes! Oook - the mind boggles!

Just picked up a bunch of the "Essential" line of books from Marvel. It's a trip looking back at the characters from the 60s. From Iron Man in his sheet metal (then chainmail) armor, with transistorized grenades, to the Fantastic Four with the radar that can "detect human flesh covered in steel", they sure used some odd devices. It's interesting to see how the characters changed, especially in terms of power. For example, Thor originally could manipulate energy (magnetic) with his hammer, Sub Mariner could store and manipulate electricity, Iron Man had transistorized magnets that could pull metal objects (even so much that they exploded). He made an image projector that could send his image (or someone else) anywhere in the world and the image would see what was around his location (and speak/hear as well). Then these powers disappeared or fell out of use. As a side note - how did Stark live? The shrapnell in his heart apparently would kill him unless his chest plate kept it beating. So the shrapnell had to have severed a nerve or something? If it put holes, his pacemaker would do nothing but more damage. Granted this was before pacemakers were developed, so its prett amazing for its time. However, he had a tranzistorized power source that could be depleted, but then would recharge. Yet he had to plug in his chestplate to keep his heart beating. Why not use the self-recharging ones for his heart? Its also interesting to see how attitudes changed (especially with the women - the invisible girl and the wasp for example). Reed Richards saying that Sue was basically a cheerleader (in FF #12)! Eye opening to see how the times (and characters) have changed. Looking at the books made me wonder if anybody plays in that type of campaign - I know some people do (or at least have run some games like that). Do people use a lot of that genre or its conventions (add radar to anything and you have a super weapon "my radar-death-ray") or do people play in a more modern style, with science more in line with todays world? Also, has anyone done anything like the early comics - where characters powers could often change wildly, with powers getting limited but more powerful as time went on (i.e. a lot of "radiation accidents" so to speak)? Anyone have any comments on the style, or the comics themselves? I remember reading many of these as a kid. Or what about the cartoons? The old FF cartoon that actually followed the comics pretty well? If they could do it then, why can't they do it now?

No takers? Was going to post what I put together, then my friend returned my USPD - which has the approrpiate powers already there. Kinda makes my questions moot, since they powers are pretty well covered. Only question I might have then would be the power level or framework (or differing construction than the book). All right, so here's a few more on his limitations, to be more specific - the description says he loses strength the further he stretches. Since he can stretch 250" noncombat, what about a "str reduced by range" limitation - we can't use the regular one, since at -1 dc per 4" would drop him to 0 STR in no time. I gave him 15 STR to begin with, so how about a -1/4 limitation that drops STR down to 10 at 100", 5 at 200", and 3 at 250". Or would a (-0) modifier be better since such ranges will probably not be used very often? Then there's the missile reflection - the USPD has a good idea, but I'd add the need to be braced for large missiles/objects (-1/4 perhaps, depends on utility), and the need for room behind the character (for the body to flex) - say "character must not be against an object/person" or "character must have hex behind him empty to use reflection" at -1/4. Damage reduction is likewise good, but I'd change it to two forms - both resistant, but something along the lines of 75% vs body only, and 50% (or 25%, depending on defenses in the campaign) vs stun, both limited to PD. ED damage reduction would be lower, and all one type. I split the PD for his resistance to knives and sharp objects. The ability to cover (and absorb) explosions could work as a force wall (covers 2" or 6 hexsides), I also thought of supress or dispel, but that doesn't have the same feel. A suppress or dispel of fire powers could relfect the ability to enclose someone/thing and smother out flames, however. Life support usable on others to reflect an air sustaining sphere is possible too.

? Normal PD & ED stops stun and body from non-killing attacks (Fred p 24 - "characters subtract their PD from the STUN and BODY damage done by Normal Damage physical attacks" for example.

After going through the elemental control "debate" in the hero forum, I decided to look up one of the characters mentioned. His writeup was interesting and I was curious to see how people might design him. I am, of course, referrring to Reed Richards - Mr Fantastic. Personally, although I like the character, and grew up on the FF (including the cartoons), I think his power is ridiculous. Stretchy/elastic guys have always seemed like a stupid idea to me. Just my opinion. Anyway, I figured I'd retype his power limits, and see what people make. Whether its just the power or a whole character, I would just like to see what people make out of the same words - it's more of a viewpoint than mechanic thing. Use whatever you want - design him (or just his powers) as you would put him into your campaign - so use whatever rules you use in your games. Here goes (the long part, my editing to remove what is hopefully nonessential info). All information taken from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, Deluxe Edition, Vol 2 (#8) - July 1986. pp 53-55. All rights etc are Marvels (or whatevers appropriate): "Mr Fantastic possesses the normal human strength and build of a man of his age [edit - unknown - he used to be in WW2 with the OSS, but I'm sure that's been changed by now, maybe even by then)], height (6'1") and build (he's also 180 lbs) who engages in moderate regular exercise." "Known superhuman powers: Mr Fantastic possesses the ability to convert the mass of his entire body into a highly malleable state at will. In such a state he can stretch, deform, expand, or compress his entire body or parts thereof into an contiguous shape he can imagine. He can extend his limbs, torso, or neck great distances: the maximum length he can distend before his body segments become painful is about 1,500 feet. (Although he can extend discrete body parts, such as a single finger, an ear, or an eye, he seldom if ever isolates such parts in his elongations). He can also extend his body in two directions, creating a canopy parachute, or sheath, its thickness determined by the extent of its distension. He has compressed his body into the shape of a solid sphere, a cylinder, a cube, a toroid, and a rectangular prism: he can assume the shape of any solid that he can envision claerly of a volume no greater than 1.7 cubic feet (a sphere about 18 inches in diameter). He can generate thin-walled shapes that enclose great volumes of space. Mister Fantastic can flatten himself to the thickness of an average sheet of typing paper (.0035 inch) or narrow himself to a diameter small enough to pass through the eye of a #10 beading needle (about .045 x .06 inches). How his body's respiration and circulatory systems function at these distorted extremes is as yet unkown. Mister Fantastic can alter his form in a manner of seconds, often much less (depending on the complexity of the shape), and revert to his normal humanoid shape within a similar time. The greater the distance he stretches, or the more extended the size of the object he becomes, the weaker his overall strength becomes." "Due to the great malleability and elasticity of his molecular structure, Mister Fantastic is able to absorb the impact of any type of man-made balistic projectile by deforming his body along the path of the projectile's trajectory at the point of initial impact. After his body abosrbs the kinetic energy of a ballistic projectile's impact, he can expel the object back along its trajectory by flexing like a trampoline if he is adequately braced. He can enclose and absorb the energy of a large explosive, on the order of 8 to 12 pounds of TNT (excluding exotic, high density explosives). Such shocks to his system are physically exhausting. "Mister Fantastic's transformations to a malleable state is reflexive and nearly instantaneous: if he was at his normal form and taken unaware by machine gun fire, his body would still absorb the bullets' impact through radical deformation. Mister Fantastics skin is virtually impervious to laceration or punctures unless he willfully relaxes his reflexive control over small areas of his body. In that case, scalpels and ordinary needles can penetrate his skin." Whew - no editing except about his strength. Like I said, I'm curious to see what people make of that particularly his limitations and abilities. No rules except your own campaigns'. Thanks in advance for any responses.

Tekumel - the Empire of the Petal Throne. An old (28+years) game/world made by Professor MAR Barker. Features strange races and a distinctly non-European flavor. http://www.weirdrealm.com/tekumel/ http://www.tekumel.com/ Two links that lead to others. Someone had done a translation a while back, but I don't know if its valid for 5e. I have a few of the games and may try to convert it, if I can get my group interested in it.

Re: Re: Back on track? OK - two clarifications - I was looking more for the higher modifier type, for an all-out power stopper. Have people used the +1 to +2 modifier versions often, not at all, etc. Second, on the powers roll deal, I was seeing if anybody used the one-shot type use given in FRED and explained in more depth in fantasy hero. With your answer I'd assume that'd be a no for you, Gary, but anybody else? I know its cross genre, but it fits with power stunts from other games (the questions related to the thread, somewhat, as I'm looking for ways to expand powers in limited ways with experience - you need to use a power in a power tricks/stunt before you can learn (i.e. purchase) the power. More relevant to MPs than ECs for the experience cost reason. Thanks in advance. Thanks for the reply too.

What about ... Detect life? It's usable in many fantasy and sci-fi campaigns. Detect minds is pretty similar. I'd use it as a mental sense rather than a power, with the discriminatory and analyze features allowing the character to tell if a mind is human, alien, whatever, and if he's encountered it before. Maybe tell something about it (fatigued, asleep) - I'd watch out for detecting mind control, but that is certainly an allowable possibility - maybe a power vs ego roll or something to hide the mind control. Depending on the genre this can be useful but not overpowering. Like others have posted I'd work with the player to set the limits on it. The targeting aspect would work like mind scan to allow targeting, but if the character can't tell for sure which mind is the villains... (a per roll would still have to be made in any case for the discriminatory or analyze, with appropriate penalties). I might allow mental defense to work against this, depending on the nature of the defense (mind shield vs strong will, for example). Not too bad for a pretty common power for most psychic characters in comics.

Back on track? Ignoring most of the min/max attempts, here's a continuiation of my last post (don't run )! Kinetik - champs universe. Given that, according to Steve, an EC-character can't use, for example, two attack powers. It's in the questions forum, don't know how to link it, so I can't, sorry. Why does Kinetik have the following EC? 15 Speedster Tricks: Elemental Control, 30-point powers 15 1) Fast Work: Change Environment 8" radius, varying effect (+1/2) 12 2) Protective Aura: Force Field (8 PD/12 ED), Reduced End (0 END; +1/2) Only when moving (-1/4) 15 3) Vibro-grip: HKA 1d6 (1d6+1 with STR), Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2) 9 4) Supersonic Finger Snap: EB 3d6, NND (defense is Life Support (safe environment: High Pressure) or armored head-covering; +1), No Range (-1/2), Gestures (must hold hand near target's ear; -1/4) 10 5) Dizzying Spin: Drain DEX 3d6, requires a DEX roll (-1/2) Since he can't do slots 3,4, and 5 in one phase (I'd argue 1 in that as well, but that can be debated), apparently the justification is that it can all be drained at once. OK, that can work, but is it efficient (i.e. does it save points?) Hell no - the power as written costs 76 points. Make it a MP: 30 Speedster tricks MP: 30 point reserve 3 1u) Change environment 3 2u) Vibro grip 2 3u) Supersonic Finger Snap 2 4u) Dizzying Spin Then, since the protective aura is on and he can use it even when attacking, make it a separate power: 24 Protective Aura, 8 PD/12 ED Force Field, Reduced END (0 +1/2), Only when moving (-1/4) The same power for 64 points. A savings of 12. Can't be right, can it? Or are ECs only cost effective in certain cercimstances? Here's a question for the general readership - if you have something that stops a special effect - say a super-sauna that dispels or supresses ice powers, would it matter if a power is separate, in a mp or vpp or ec? This is only tangentially related to the drain-one-ec-drain-all (since drain is specific to a certain power/characteristic). I've used sfx supresses, but not a lot of drains (except characteristics), and am curious on that side-issue. As a related point, what about using a power roll to modify a drain - such as drain eb (fire) becomes drain ff (fire)? Haven't tried it or looked it up - just occured to me when typing.

I had a similar problem. I ended up by giving it side effects, using the closest one to the effect I wanted to achieve. For example - for a -1 OCV i'd use the -1/4 limitation (under 15 active points for the negative leve, it should get x2 for always occurs, but variable [gm determined] effect drops it back to -1/4). It's not perfect but it worked for the item in question. Fantasy hero recommends this method, but leaves the 2x modifier to it (p 177). Your way might work - the mechanics seem sound. Have to try it out to see what effect it has. Your way makes a large power potentially really inaccurate. Off the top of my head I'd start with -1/10, like rsr andwrok from there - that way you can get a -1/20 for -1/4. A 60 pt power would then be -3 ocv and 48 points. or -6 at 40, or -12 at 34 (-3/4 for 1/5). Your way would be as you quoted, of course. When using a side effect you could get -1 to -3 for a -1/4 limitation, -4 to -6 for -1/2, or up to -12 for -1. Side effects work out cheaper for the large limitation, but its variable. Your (innaccurate?) limitation is a little cleaner. Ultimate vehicle uses RSR, with an ocv penalty of -1 per point missed by (or whatever the gm feels appropriate) - still a bit different thatn what you're looking for (p 31).

I'm curious as to what the official rule on this is: An elemental control can have all the powers in it active at once (5e p204). An attack power (with attack roll) takes a 1/2 phase action and can't have any action follow it (5e p 233-4). Does that mean that for an EC with two attack powers: a) only one attack can be used in a phase (follows the action system), or both attacks can be done, following the EC rules (or implied rules) I'm referrring to regular attacks, not multiple power attacks, since they cannot be used within frameworks. I've been playing with version a and wad curious if I've been reading it differently then everybody else. Thanks.

I think the FAQ answers a similar question on range - the no range limit can be used like hth attacks - you can target the hex next to you. I'd still require a roll to hit - otherwise it's a cheap automatic hit power. Still DCV 3 isn't that hard (and it gives the defender a chance to dodge the effect).

This one's easier. Right now I can't see any other easy way. For my taste, +1/2 sounds ok for 2xstun, only vs con to stun somebody. Works for me.

I'd try to equate the effect with the limited power guidelines on p 194 in FRED. A -1/2 limitation loses about 1/3rd its effectiveness. -1 for 1/2 its effectiveness. -1 is probably more accurate, but... I'd probably go with the -1/2 - it's more of a feel thing. I think -1 would be too much of a limitation, although that can change depending on how big the attack is before the reduction. I'm unsure why you'd want the reduced penetration for a lash - it's mainly to simulate two low powered attacks made as one (thus the 1/2 body x2 attacks). It just seems a little odd? Something like a cat-o-nine tails maybe? Why not just use a low powered attack (or hand attack)? I'm unsure of exactly what you want, so I can't give anything more than that, sorry.

It's off and on again on BBCAmerica if you can get it. Bought the boxed set though, along with fawlty towers, red dwarf, Bean (I like it - but black adder is funnier generally), coupling, and are you being served? Too bad you can't run a game with all those. Or can you (Better Than Life maybe?)

Maybe not refinements. The thought of blood mad nymphs on harleys riding into town out of their woods sets up an interesting picture. Pixies flying like that scene from the birds. Give us time to think of some - interesting ideas though.

Eek - everybody run - I'm posting again!!! Here's some things i came up with while at work - How does everybody apply the action system? What I mean is that any action that requires an Attack roll is a 1/2 phase action (p 237). Make a skill roll is variable, but I've always played that if the power required a roll, than it took a half-phase as well. Thus a character could move than attack (move half is half-phase - same page), move full (ditto) or attack (p 237 says you can't do another action after an attack action). For someone to fly, use an attack, and do something like missile deflection (requires a roll), than that took 1.5 actions. Can't do it. EC says you can use your powers at once - but to me that took secondary effect to the action system. You were still limited in your choices of what you can do. To keep a force field up is 0 phase, so a typical EC with EB, FF, and Flight is possible. A similar construct is OK. Putting multiple attacks makes no sense, since you can only do one at a time. Why not make a MP for the flexibility (etc) - that's a reason that I haven't really explained (I tried in non-game terms, but didn't think up the proper terms until this morning). That would have been much neater and required less analysis. So, what do others do? Do you allow something like (irk - don't hurl -) Kinetik from Champions Universe? I know he's a speedster, but to be able to change an 8" radius area (clean up or whatever), while keeping your body moving to (ok - the force field makes sense), while using the vibro-grip, supersonic finger-snap, and dizzying spin all at once? How is that possible. Even in game terms? You can't do multiple power attacks within frameworks (p 204) without GMs permission, of course. So how can you justify having them in the framework? Just because they can be drained? Something like that is a good argument for Gary's "drain together" limitation (although I think 'linked' works as well, but that's just my interpretation). I would have put the FF separate, with the other powers in a MP. Heck, give him an area of effect attack, selective, any area, linked to running (or only to inches run would be more proper, I believe). To go back to the drain rule - I think it's pretty clear (highly subjective, of course, since if it was clear these threads wouldn't take place) that they mean all powers should be based on SFX that can be drained all at once (the fire extinguisher or lack of oxygen given in the example on p 204). To me that overrules the 2nd paragraph in that section (Acceptable Elemental Controls) - the one where they have EC: werewolf powers. Can anyone define a drain werewolf power? Wolfsbane powder in the air? Finally, so I don't seem like an ogre - I could actually play with a similar character as lariat - I'd even use the EC, if the drain part can be rationalized to my satisfaction. Without point costs, since I'm only worried about the construction, I'd have Stretching, Str linked (or vice versa), FF, Missile deflection linked to FF with uncontrolled or continuous (prob uncontrolled, since it would be a set up and forget power, which would go down when the FF was dropped). Spatial awareness- that power I'd either do as a touch sense only linked to the stretching (the tendrils can sense what they touch and transmit it back to Lariat, requiring active guidance (or half-phase action)), or else drop it out of the EC and give it to the mental sense group (possibly radar or sonar instead, but as a separate non-touch, the spatial awareness power is ok) - the last version would reflect her mental "detection field" she uses to control the tendrils - it is passive, so requires no roll normally, and requires no force going out and actually touching things.