JeffreyWKramer

I'm just starting to introduce a VIPER plotline into my online (chat-based) Champions campaign, so I can't report on it here... yet. At least two of my players are regulars here. I gladly will later, though... unless, of course, it turns out sucking in actual play. Only time will tell.

I personally don't have a problem with it either. I'm just stating the rationale that I have long assumed was there. That rule about "no Powers that don't cost END" was around during the Big Blue Book era, too. I also ignored it back then, *if* DR was appropriate for a given character concept. Regeneration used to be another example (now it's legal in an EC, even though it is bought down to 0 END), but I used to allow both Powers in ECs from time to time. If someone wanted to have an EC-Lycanthrope Powers, both were reasonable, and allowed. Similarly, if someone wanted to have a super-resilient body along with his Stretching and such, I allowed DR to physical attacks to be purchased in Malleable Body ECs. And I still would. I do think Damage Reduction is under-priced in large-point campaigns, but that's going to happen with some effects. Things that have an absolute cost (Damage Reduction, Desolidification, Clairsentience) are going to have variable value depending on how much one can spend. It's probably overpriced for lower-point campaigns. And yes, you cannot put "Costs END" and "0 END on the same Power to get it into an EC, per the FAQ.

I think it's hard to argue that the cost of any Attack power is balanced against the cost of Damage Reduction. This is particularly true in campaigns with high active point limits, at which point Damage Reduction becomes extremely cost-effective. There's a reason Damage Reduction is a < ! > Power.

The problem with using Trigger -" whenever hit in HTH" - vs. Damage Shield is the need to reset the Trigger. This can perhaps be bypassed by setting several Charges, but it will run out pretty quickly if you go up against Autofire attacks or are hit by multiple opponents in a small period of time - vs. the Damage Shield, which doesn't take any extra END/Charges whether you're hit once or 417 times in a given phase.

Well, I would agree there is in-comics precedent for such things. I still consider Val Armorr successfully pulling off leverage-based attacks against Kryptonians and Daxamites to be rather ridiculous, though. You can have all the knowledge in the world of Kryptonian physiology, but if you're not strong enough to impact said physiology, your knowledge shouldn't ammount to much.

TK, Entangle, etc. could all work - but really, check out the Clinging DS discussion in FRED... it probably is the most cost-effective way to do this, and the one requiring the fewer Active Points/Limitations.

Looks like some people here would prefer that, instead of making clarifications and correcting errors via a readily available* FAQ and Errata updates, some would prefer to have new editions of the books - complete with rule changes - come out every couple years, per WoTC. HERO 5.5? No thanks. * If you're here on the message board, it's inane to be arguing that online FAQs aren't accessible enough. If some HERO player is so far out in the boons he or she can't access the Internet, I think that person probably has other things to concern them more than rules minutae.

I've always figured it was there primarily to keep people from purchasing extremely cost-effective Defense powers (particularly Damage Reduction, but also Armor) too cheaply.

This should be done for *any* VPP, IMHO. Figuring out VPP allocation in the middle of the game can show things down worse than anything this side of waiting for a multiclassed cleric/wizard in DnD to figure out which darn spell he's gonna cast this round.

Re: Not having gotten 5e yet... You don't even need the "Usable Against Others" modifier to do this. Check out the Damage Shield option in the discussion of Clinging in the HERO 5E Rulebook. And I fully agree, that is probably the best way to reflect Blob's special effect.

I think one thing to cover is that some character concepts become increasingly powerful, to the point of possible imbalance, at high levels. Some examples: Foci-based characters - powered-armor guys, weaponeers, etc. - end up having a lot more effective points than their peers. This is true at any point level, but becomes more pronounced and obvious at high-point levels. Having a guy in a 350-pt campaign with 300 points of powers costing 200 points due to the wonder of OIF -1/2 is tough... having the equivalent in a 800-point campaign, in which a guy gets 900 of value for 600 points becomes amazingly tough. This even starts becoming a problem at the lower-cost -1/4 "Hero ID Only" Limitation level when point values rise. Certain sorts of special attacks - Mental and Drain, for example - can either a) become overwhelming, because the differential between a mentalist/powerleech's available points for high-power attacks and the amount of EGO/Power Defense most characters will buy (or should have, by reasonable character concepts) becomes quite high, or become pointless, because everyone has tons of points to spend and thus tosses a bunch into things like Power Defense, Mental Defense and Lack of Weakness. In the case of , NND attacks start to become worthless too, though AVLD may still have some value. Certain sorts of character concepts max out or become mutated at certain point levels. When everyone has tons of points to spend on SPD/DEX, speedsters become less special (you can't add SPD 15 to the SPD chart). Martial artists become a lot less impressive when everyone is throwing around huge AoE attacks and such, and their alternative (buying tons of extra DC) starts to become ridiculous ("Aikido Boy just kicked a hole through the starship." ) Given enough points, the characters can start to become capable of some of the really obscene feats from comics. It doesn't cost that much for the speedster to buy an Area of Effect, Autofire, Double-Penetrating hand-to-hand attack that allows him to run around and punch everyone on the battlefield 5 times in a phase - the kind of thing you wonder why Flash doesn't use to end every fight before it really gets going in the comics. You can mimic Dr. Strange/Dr.Fate characters very well at the 600+ point level, by using VPPs. All of a sudden, Extradimensional Movement, AoE, Usable as Attack, Ranged isnt unaffordable. Speaking of VPPs, at high point costs, *many* characters are going to want to represent their versatile power-sets via VPP, and they have the points available to do it at impressive power levels. This allows for all sorts of combinations of Powers, special effects and Advantages. Susceptibilities and Vulnerabilities start to become incredibly dangerous if all the character's foes can toss in a "Variable Special Effects" attack at will from their VPP. Combine high points, VPP and some of the special attack powers and things can really get dangerous - the Variable Effects Advantages for Adjustment Powers, for example, become killers. "Okay, this phase Draino uses his VPP to target all Mental Powers with his 4d6 Ranged Drain, Recover 5 points per month."

Technically, I don't *think* there's anything wrong with Oliver having his own Multiform, so long as that form can't be accessed/taken on by the Jack form. Some GMs may raise an eyebrow over that, though. I would probably tend toward having Jack be the one who purchases Multiform, and let Limitations on the Multiform Power and/or Disadvantages such as Accidental Change define the conditions in which either he or Oliver is in charge (perhaps Jack can only become Oliver, and Oliver can become either Jack or the Demon). Let's say the Demon is a 400 pt character (base 200 + 200 in Disads). That Multiform would cost 80 pts. For +5 Points, Jack could have two Multiforms - the Demon, and Oliver (who could cost up to 400 pts, but need not cost that much). Since Jack is supposedly more or less a very skilled normal, 85 points should be manageable. It *is* legal for a Multiform to be worth a lot more points than the base character, btw. If you have Jack and Oliver with separate Multiforms, Jack would pay Oliver's cost/5 in Points, and Oliver would pay the Demons's cost/5 in Points.

Many times over the years. I've done it with my own PCs, too. Examples include doing incredibly high-speed Move Throughs, getting up from unconsciousness to join the battle again, only to go down again quickly due to lack of STUN/END, and burning STUN when out of END. Probably the most notable example I can think of was in a campaign I played in many years ago (4E). It was a high-powered campaign in which our hero team was essentially a branch office of the Legion of Super-Heroes. We were playing a rematch with the Fatal Five (after they stomped us handily the first time around), and completely at a loss as to how to actually harm the super-huge, incredibly durable Validus, the guy playing the Daxamite decided to do a Move Through on the big guy at his full (normally noncombat) velocity - something like 25" Flight, x16 Noncom. He figured even with no OCV to speak of, he'd have a good chance of hitting that big a target, and he was correct. However, despite his incredible defenses, this maneuver took both Validus and our own big guy out of the fight - both were well into "GMs Option" for recoveries.

This is the best idea I've seen so far. Make the Entangle Fully Invisible and "Entangle and Character both take damage" - a hit will knock the character out of his "stunned" state.

It is not generally kosher to buy Defense Powers and apply Area Effect in order to have them provide defenses to others - that's what Usable By Others is for. There are rare exceptions that can be okay as mandated by special effects - the "Air Globe" Life Support from USPDB is an example - but they are the exception to the rule, as noted in the description of that power construct. Talon's "Armor" concept is a legitimate way to do this effect, though. One of the cool things about HERO is that there are often multiple ways to mimic any given effect, and none of them is necessarily "right." One person might make an Acid Power as RKA Penetrating (as Steve does in USPDB), another might go for the deadlier (but more expensive) route of RKA, NND, Does Body - and either way can be okay, to mimic the effects of different types of acid.

Yeah, it's a toss-up in terms of cost/effects balance. Some aspects of Force Wall make definitely make sense for this construct, including the "blocks sight" adder. At the same time, it's a fairly expensive way to do it. If you do go with Force Wall, I'd consider the "Feedback" suggestion, and in any case would definitely define the Force Wall falling as the wing being pushed aside or flinching away from the attack, rather than being torn or such. Also, think of it this way - do you see the Demon's wings as being able to block a blow from a big strong guy as well as intercept a ranged attack? If so, Force Wall is definitely the way to go - it will likely be a pretty weak Force Wall (wings aren't that hard to push out of the way), but it will still waste (or at least reduce) someone's attack getting through. If you don't see the wings keeping a brick away, then I'd go with Missile Deflection. Really, there isnt a "wrong" way to do this one. Heck, if you're gonna do it as a Multipower, why not do it *both* ways? A three-slot Multipower (Flight, Force Wall and Missile Deflection, all "u"), all with the Restrainable Limitation, isn't much more expensive than a two-slot one. It could be: 27 DEMON WINGS Multipower, 40 point Base, Restrainable (-1/2) 3u 1) 20" Flight, Restrainable (-1/2) = 4 END 3u 2) Missile Deflection vs. All Ranged, At Limited Range (+3/4), Restrainable (-1/2)+2 to OCV 2u 3) Force Wall, 4/4, 5" Hexes total, Opaque to Sight Group, Restrainable (-1/2), No Range (-1/2). 4 END Total Cost: 35 The Force Wall above is pretty wimpy, but unless an opponent is doing a Move By, Move Thru or some Martial Maneuver with the FMove element, it will still prevent the opponent from getting through the wall and attacking in HTH on the same phase - and even if they do get through, they're going to be at OCV 0 unless either a) they have a targeting sense other than sight, or they'd already launched their attack before you put the Force Wall up (via Aborted action or such). If you were trying to defend against ranged attacks that phase, you'd naturally use the wings to Missile Deflect rather than set up a wall. Doing it this way, you can also use the wings to restrain someone within HTH range - it takes only a 2" Force Wall to surround an opponent.

For each character, purchase the powers, or extra dice on some powers, so they only work if the character is within the stated distance of the sibling. 2" to 4" is pretty close, so it's a significant enough Limitation I'd tend to give it -1/2, even though in most circumstances the characters have control over whether or note the Limitation comes into play.

I agree with Farkling on this one, 100%.

I think I would tend toward buying it as Missile Deflection for All, at Range, Limited Range (no more than 2" away, +3/4). You may also consider putting this in a Multipower with the character's Flight, purchasing both with an "u" slot, to reflect that the character can't Fly and Deflect Missiles at the same time. Both Powers would get the Restrainable Limitation which would reduce the cost of each slot and the MP base. I suggest the MP because 1) it is conceptually logical, and 2) it saves points. Your character's sounding cooler and cooler, Bloodstone.

Let's say someone wants to use Summon to call into being a creature that is only going to be around for a very brief time - an animated water construct (built as an automaton) that loses cohesion quickly, for example. Now, while Summon is an Instant Power, the effects of the power - having summoned a being - normally last an indefinite amount of time (until the being is destroyed or completes as many tasks as it will perform based on its disposition toward the Summoner). So, how does one represent the effect of Summoning something that is inherently going to be there only for a very short time - say, a turn? One idea I had was to apply a Limitation to the total cost of the being (one Continuing Charge of 1 turn = -1 1/4), which would serve to make the being cheaper to Summon. Is that legit?

Gambit also has the inexplicable ability of being able to sneak about and successfully be stealthy and unseen when wearing a magenta-colored bodysuit. Of course, Wolverine used to do the same thing in a bright yellow and blue suit. Perhaps the X-Men are privy to some special ninja techniques, or Chuck has taught them some "cloud mens' minds" sort of psi invisibility tricks.

That would work fine and dandy, and be reasonably cheap, given the Limitations on the MP. And it wouldn't be broken at all. The only problem might be to fit it within Active Point limits for a campaign... the overall dice of the EB might have to be reduced to allow for that.

That would work well... buy an EB with Variable SFX and Advantages, with the Limitation it only works if the character has used Missile Deflection in the fairly recent past, and that the character has to use his EB to mimic as closely as possible whatever it was he Deflected.

Could be... but unless the "bad self" has a distinctly different ID, it shouldn't get OIHID for its abilities if the Demon also represents a Multiform. After all, what is the "bad form" if not the demon? If the bad form is always the demon, it shouldn't get OIHID for demon powers while in demon form. This is particularly broken if the bad self is not the character's base form, as alternate forms already get 5 points for every one point spent on Multiform by the base form; giving it a -1/4 Limitation on everything on top of that is way over the top. If I was building this character, I'd build as so: 1) Oliver Kale, the skilled but essentially normal human, would be the base form. That is the form that purchases Multiform; more specifically, he purchases one alternate form, the Demon. The Demon is built on a base of 5 character points for every 1 point Kale spends on the Multiform Power. 2) This Multiform is purchased with the Limitation "Full Phase Activation" (-1/2). If Bloodstone still wants to have the character unable to consciously take Demon form, I'd also apply the "Activates only by Accidental Change" Limitation, the amount of which (probably -1/2 to -1) would depend on how many situations triggered the change, and at what frequency.

Regardless of the idea behind the character, I'd be extremely wary of a character being able to "hold onto" an intercepted attack for later use. That allows the character to have access to a big, free attack, at whatever point and target desired. In terms of cost, that's potentially a heck of a lot of bang for very few points - much fewer than if the character had purchased said attack. Reflection is cost-balanced because 1) it essentially requires a held Attack phase, and 2) must be done immediately, and is thus not subject to much control of timing, etc. by the character with Reflection. What you describe is not cost-balanced at all because it can be used whenever one would use one's own attacks. Again - it gives an attack that is potentially of a sort your character potentially cannot normally deliver, at no END cost, etc. As a Champions GM of 20 years experience, I would certainly "just say no" to this one.