Wanderer

Re: Legal status of major supergroups I'd mostly share this advice, with some differences. Silver Age: governments may often forsake disclosure, as long as the super has an outstanding public record and a trustworthy reputation. As long as the character has a positive Reputation and/or influential Contacts and/or "good" personality Disadvantages (Honorable, Heroic, Protects Innocents, etc.) he's likely to gert sanction is he cares to ask. In more realistic universes, such as Bronze or Iron Age settings, typically disclosure of identity is generally a prerequisite, for the purpose of accountability and control, and a necessity for running a background check. However, it is likely that the secret ID may be kept a secret except to to the highest levels of intelligence, and government be willing to keep the secret to the public, or set up false IDs. The President and the top levels of FBI and CIA would know the true identiy. For the public, and low-security-clearance branches of the government (say a district judge in a criminal case) he would be known only by his code-name, fully shielded by law. Or a fake identity would be set up, with the supers livign at the base, and their families put in the witness protection program. I do not think that a criminal past would be an absolute obstacle to working for the government. Supers, especially powerful ones (say Avengers material) are too much precious an asset, and governments may be ruthlessly pragmatic when "national security" is the stake. Of course, outmost effort would be put on to check that the super is *from now on* working in good faith for the gov., but if Hyperman really appears to be willing to protect the fatherland from Dr.Destroyer, who cares that he cheated on taxes or shoplifted before "erupting" ? Write a pardon and welcome him aboard. Massive scandal ?? I seriously doubt it. Governments have always steadfastly justified working with the worst thugs in the name of "national security", and none of them had superpowers. Plus, a turn of duty in the army has always been accepted as a time-honored way of wiping clean a criminal record. I have no doubt that as soon as superpowers do appear, governments would lose no time in putting laws in the books, giving the executive extremely ample powers of amnesty for all supers willing to work for the state, especially as regards the military and the intelligence. And with the right bylaws, the boundary between military or espionage and the law enforcement branches that are sensitive for national security may be made very porous indeed. However, if you mention the case of a super working as a doubl-agent, or really abusing his sanction, I agree. They would crack down on him *hard*. Think sending a dozen of other sanctioned supers after him, and burying him in the tightest maximum security prison with power nullifers, or hot sleep, or mental conditioning, or be released in a some Third Wolrd hellhole as a "black op" expendable, deniable asset, with a bomb just near your brain.

Re: Your PCs might be overpowered if... If when DEMON cultists try to summon the Kings of Edom to your world, they make a frightened shriek and disappear If Galactus gives his herald a standing order to avoid your world If Kree and Skrull declare your world "peaceful coexistence nexus"

Re: Your PCs might be overpowered if... But any ambigous statement of yours is likely to spark them anew.

Re: How can Superheroes be deputized? Well, I'm not familiar with RL U.S. laws, but I guess that in Hero terms, the characters should be given both the Perks Federal/National Police Powers (3) and Law Enforcement Membership: F.B.I. Special Agent (3). If this would be on a temporary basis, they would not need pay them with characters points, since the Perks would simply be a plot hook. I think they would able to do pretty much a regular agent could do: perform arrests, request assistance, etc. Characters would likely gain the Disadvantages: Subject to Orders and/or Hunted (FBI): Watching: 11- or 14- (as temporary agents, they would be given much less trust and supervised more closely by their liason and his superiors). Of course, if the story leads the characters to become full-fledged federal super-agents on a permanent basis, then characters should pay for the package, which then would also likely include a salary (Money) (2-5) and a Security Clearance (3-5), as well as one or both of the above Disadvs (even if the frequency of the Watched would then be 8-, or 11- at most). We have been discussing a similar topic on http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40900

Re: Your PCs might be overpowered if... When superpowers meet to discuss WMD control treaties, a whole chapter is dedicated to you. The president of the U.S. keeps contingency plans for your going on a rampage near the ones for bombing Moscow. When you enter a battle, they first notice it on the Richter scale, not on CNN. They calculate your military equivalent in Megadeaths.

Re: Suggestions on 'Cosmic-type' build Separate post because of length

Re: New Avengers I extravagantly apologize for derailing the thread just a bit, but since this seems a good hunting point for Avengers fans, could any of you please spare a bit to answer this question, too, in NGD ?? http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41593 Profuse thanks

Re: Supervillain Psych Lims: The Reboot Good remarks, even if I have to remark that such a strong difficulty to abstain from killing, even if when it's definitely advantageous (hostages, questioning) better fits Psych Lims like "Likes to Kill", "Kills for Fun" and "Bloodlust". Casual Killer by itself is more of the "I have no ethical or psychological qualms whatsoever gainst killing, so if I have any reason to, and no reason not to, I will" e.g. "hey @$$%&£? you marred my car. I'm suing you ! Oh, will you ? BLAM". The cold-blooded operative that methodically terminates all his targets, yet is perfectly capable of keeping some enemy alive if needed for questioning is a Casual Killer also.

Re: Suggestions on 'Cosmic-type' build This is meant to be a rather powerful, yet inexperienced cosmic-level character. The core power concept is that he is a powerful psionic who summons a superhuman form psychokinetic construct to wrap himself in (similar to Ultraverse's Prime). Outside of his OIHID, he still is somehow at the peak of human potential. As such, powers have a psionic slant, but you can easily rework it to a more "cosmic" feeling (e.g. drop the Will and Knock Out preconditions on the OIHID, and substitute it with a "Only Works in the presence of solar/stellar emissions", or drop the OIHID entirely, which should raise the cost of another 100-120 pts or so, maybe add a Cosmic Awareness Sense type). EDIT: I've slightly rewritten the powerset, adding some healing ability for the non-superhuman form, a budding Cosmic-Awareness-type sense, and a Cosmic-slanted Vulnerability, as well as a "solar battery" lim for the OIHID. This version is written for a character working for the government in an Avengers/Ultimates government-sanctioned supergroup, but can be easily rewritten to make it non-sanctioned by varying the Disadvantages and dropping the Perks. I think you can easily rework the build to fit the Superman/Silver Surfer niche in a cosmic-level group. I've not yet come to writing down the background (owning to my modest English skills), but I envision the character as some kind of nerdish college-age youth who has recently erupted into an overconfident easygoing edonist, thanks to superpowers. Origin may equally be either natural mutation, or genetic engineering purposeful experimentation (maybe even cloning a deceased superhero, a la Superboy*), which make him able to harness the power of the mind (and the energy of the cosmos) to reach cosmic-level heights of power in the brick/energy control/telekinetic areas (with a slight whiff of speedster and metamoroh). Inspiration are the classic DC/Marvel cosmic hybrid archetypes: Superman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer, Thanos, Warlock, revisited in an Iron Age sensibility: e.g. Supreme Power's Hyperion, Invincible, or modern Superboy. *In such a case, the build should include these optional powers and "Manciurian Candidate" Disadvantages: They Can Clone Me: Duplication (creates 837-point form), Cannot Recombine (+0) (168 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Month, -5), OAF Immobile Fragile (-2 1/4), No Conscious Control (Only Activation cannot be controlled; -1) Psychological Limitation: Will Not Harm Creator (Uncommon, Total) Psychological Limitation: Must Obey and Protect Creator (Uncommon, Strong)

Re: Legal status of major supergroups

Re: Enhanced Senses, overpriced ?? Hearing Sense Group does not bestow 360 degrees to other senses in the group besides normal hearing, and making targeting either normal hearing and Ultrasonic perception, or the whole hearing sense group, costs just the same. Now, I can understand these prices somehow make sense for a very useful sense like Active Sonar, but they seem insane for a sense of marginal usefulness like ultrasonic hearing, especially since you can reap 90% of the maximum potential utility of the Hearing sense group just by making normal hearing targeting; who needs an active sonar in that case ??.

In the process of giving a character a set of Superman-like vanilla super-senses: Enhanced perception, check, IR and UV vision, check, Targeting hearing, check, 360 degrees vision, check... I stumbled upon Ultrasonic Hearing, which would be very appropriate, too, and realized that to make it conform to both common sense and hero rules, it was going to cost 18 pts (3 for the base power, 5 for making it 360 degrees, and 10 to make it targeting). Moreover, if you wish to make normal sense groups fully discriminatory, notwithstanding that they are already "almost-discriminatory", it's going to cost 25 pts (sight group, normal hearing, normal smell, normal touch) or 40 pts (all usual sense groups). Am I the only one to deem this pricing scheme far exceeding the real usefulness of these senses and sense modifiers ??

Re: Legal status of major supergroups Yep, clearance-endowed heroes are definiotely going to earn more. Which brings me yet another question: should be clearance necessary only to military or espionage agents, or to national law enforcement, too ?

Re: Your PCs might be overpowered if... Gravitar and Viperia duel if off to decide who gets to be your trophy girlfriend

Re: Cosmic Threats The wielder of the Heart of the Universe goes here. It seems that to all effective purposes, who control the Heart equals the One Above All, but since it also appears that in the Heart's only appearance (The End miniseries), the One voluntarily relinquished control of reality to have a powerthirsty dupe do the dirty job of re-creating the multiverse and wipe away the corruption, the exact relationship of the Heart and the One remains a bit unclear. However, it clearly shows that the wielder of the Heart easily trumps both the Living Tribunal and the Infinity Gauntlet. As regards the Beyonder, only in the original miniseries. Subsequent ones retconned him to be an immature cosmic cube, so he gets downgraded to #5. As regards Eternity, Infinity (his spatial counterpart) is his equal. As for Eternity and Infinity, the same for Death and Oblivion. IMO you greately overextimate Dr. Strange. He's actually closer to Silver Surfer in power, hence #7. Here you may also fit the most cosmically-endowed mutants, such as Nate Grey and Franklin Richards. Heartily agreed.

Re: Legal status of major supergroups

Re: Summon as Duplication Well, if both the original and the duplicate have Persistent Shape-Shift with Cellular and Imitation, does it really matter "hmm, last week I made you to appear as Jessica Alba. This week I think we can try Kristin Kreuk". After all, with Persistent Shape-Shift, it isn't really like as one has a "true" gender anymore. As for the issue of imbreeding with your psychokinetic construct, I allow myself the protection of the XXX Amendment "No One Shall be Forced to Answer Mind-Boggling Questions". Or Not ? I seem to remember that on Shadowrun boards, the issue of having sex with your own famliar spirit (who can take *any* form) is a quite recurring topic. How it makes that this discussion is getting to resemble the latest batch of net fanfic superhero porn I read, more and more Thanks to all gods and supreme beings, I reckon that short of having Superman rape preschool children and eat their brains in mainstream comics, that horror will never come to pass again. One Age of childish dumbification and force-feeding of obnoxious conservative "values" is far more than enough for one genre and the lifetime of this fan. There was NO redeeming value in the Comics Code whatsoever IMO. It only harmed the genre.

Re: Legal status of major supergroups Well, he does maintain a high school teacher job, and children might be endangered if enemies attack him there, but the other classic SID justification disappear, as you point out, so I'd say it is now worththink Occasionally, Minor, or Occasionally Major at the very most (but he does need the job much less now). However, I think that Ultimates, and to a lesser degree the Ultimate Fantastic Four, are so far the best exploration of what would entail being a major state-sanctioned/sponsored superteam in a realistic universe (as much as Iron Age can be deemed "realistic", anyhow). Another good example would be the new version of Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme and spinoffs. Dunno, I never followed Buffy with anything resembling a decent consistency. Of course you're right. OTOH, as we have pointed out, setting up somewhat like "True Lies" might be a satisfactorily half-way approach. The classical "My love life, job performance, social life, and family status is all getting to shreds because of my superheroing, since I'm too paranoid to tell my S.O. and relatives, too hidebound to get a job related to my superhuman activities, too uptight to make some friends among those who share my calling, and too dimwitted to find someone that would subsidize me for saving the city or the world every other week" Secret Identity cliches have been done to death after 60 years of nosy Lois Lane and 40 of Peter Parker's bills. It felt a novelty in 1962, with Lee and Ditko, but nowadays, it may fit for say the first 5-10 issues of a new superhero, but afterwards it gets overstale quickly. If the last 40 years of the genre had focused on the "superhero as a celebrity" Public Identity approach, I guess we would welcome Secret Identity and troubles with bills and nosy girlfriends as a refreshing novelty.

Re: Silver Age Villains? And Communists. Do Not forget about the Red Menace. Either well-meaning but misguided super-soldier patriots that go AWOL after seeing first-handed the beauty of freedom and being double-crossed by their tyrannical overlords, femme-fatale super-spies who do the same (or die heroically to save the hero) after tasting a bit of hero red-blooded lubing, megalomanical commie officials and mad scientists who rant and rave about conquering the free world, monstrous results of mad science experiments, and Thirld World petty dictators who can't get enough of oppressing peasants...

Re: Legal status of major supergroups Well, it might. But if one takes the orginal archetype as a reference, both Mary Jane and Aunt May by now know about the double life of Peter, and they both get to live with him at the Stark Tower, and they both adapt rather well with living in luxury among superhero celebrities (and Aunt May seems to be building up a tentative mutual attraction with Jarvis, a "fan" attitude to Cap, and a grumpy maternal role to the rest of the team, especially Wolverine ) I'd rate the recent evolution of Spider-Man as a good example of selling down his old Social Limitations for a Watched one, and buying some Money, Memership and Base Perks. Personally, I find it quite satisfying that both Mary jane and May Parker are getting writed as spineful, spirited women instead of the original bimbos and doddering overprotective seniles. The "Aunt May must not know" plot hook got quite stale after say the 50th heart attack or so. Therefore, I'd say that the simplest course is to do the same as Peter and simply get the family to live at the base, or otehrwise have the govt. take care of them. Alternatively, another good option would be to set up some kind of "cover job", maintained by the govt, a la "True Lies". The best option would be, ironically, to structure it as some kind of "normal" job in the military or intelligence or national law enforcement (say, an analyst at CIA, FBI, or the Army). This way, one could easily justify the odd hours, the sudden emergency, and the duty not to gossip about the job, even to loved ones. Selling Insurances simply would not do. Well, as Avengers, Ultimates, and X-Men eloquently show, getting grief from an antagonistic relationship with bumbling, bureaucratic, or paranoid government liasions may more than enough balance the lack of classic "Peter Parker" or "Clark Kent" Secret ID grief. Besides, comics have explored the latter to death. The pitfalls of being a "super-agent" have been realtively unexplored by the genre, in comparison. Take Ultimates as an example. When you have a paranoid bumbling chief (Ultimate Nick Fury) that can be easily swayed in putting three of his big guns out of order himself on flimsy treason (Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Cap) or murder (Ultimate Hulk; even if he was guilty, his case should have been thrown out, or given a pardon; the man saved the planet !!) charges, another one on questionable wife battering charges (Ultimate Henry Pym; yeah, he is an abusive husband; but his wife is as emotionally and physically abusive as him) and have an undiscovered traitor easily dispatch other two (Ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Iron Man), what are bills, Aunt May, and JJJ in comparison ?? There is drama enough in the "super-agent" angle, too.

Re: Legal status of major supergroups I had not the slightest idea of their respective salaries, so thanks for the reference. But surely I'd say that for a coveted major asset like a on-roll superhuman, expected salary should be more alike to the FBI case. More than that. I'd expect a superhuman agent to rack substantially more than a normal agent. So I'd say the very minimum should be say $100k in the worst case (Standard superhuman in a relative abundance of them), which is 1 pt Well Off. If the market is more seller-friendly (less superhumans willing to work for Gov, more reliable or talented or powerful superhumans: e.g. very powerful or cosmic superhumans, on a Avengers or Ultimate level), I'd expect the pay to be on the $200-300k at the very least, if not, easily, the whole $500 (especially if their contracts allow to reap royalties from merchandising and the like, too. Heck, very popular superhumans may aim for Wealthy in that case). Of course, in the case the government pays for luxury housing and living expenses (e.g. the taxpayer subsidizes a spacious base [very likely] and characters may live within, free, with family), the cash amount may be lessened. Especially if they are effective on a national/international level, a la Avengers/JLA/Ultimate/Authority. Heck, classic Avengers could elect to live in relative luxury at the Avengers Mansion, if they wished. Plus, it is hinted they got a salary, too (New Avengers do not, but they still get the luxury apartment, to share with family). Well, in that case Secret ID mainly means you have to keep it secret to protect family and friends. You do not to care for a day job anymore. You are a full-time super-cop, super-spy, or super-soldier. OTOH, you become Subject to Orders and/or Watched. You may be fired if Uncle Sam becomes unsatisfied of your "heroic" job performance. So I'd say it roughly balances overall. Of course, if the government takes care of your family (they kive at the base, the Secret Service protects them, they go in the witness protection program) Secret ID should be discounted or dropped entirely. However, owning to the cop/fireman/soldier precedent, I'd say it's not less "heroic" at all for superheroes to be in the pay of the government for their heroing. Besides, a well-fed, well-housed, well-paid cop or soldier is a much, more efficient one. Who can say how much more might Spider-Man have been more efficient at superheroing had be he been able to live at the Avengers Mansion with family since the start, expenses paid. Whether to allow the combination of these two diadvantages has always been somewhat of contentious point, and even canon sources do not give definitive advice: personally, I'd say it might be justified if the government does not trust the heroes (either because of piolitical paranoia or becaseu heroes aren't that much trustworthy on their own: e.g. having disadvantages like Enraged, Rebellious, or Thrillseeker), or tends to mire tham in red tape. To use a classic reference, having an obnoxious gov liason like Gynrich would surely entitle to have Watched in addition to StO. However, if the GM does not feel to allow both, StO should trump Watched if the superhuman is an on-roll superhuman cop or soldier, Watched, if it is a liason. Ultimates would have Subject to Orders. Avengers and FF would have Watched, 11-. Ditto for Ultimate FF. Authority would have Hunted: (Capture or Kill), 11-. (Ultimate) X-Men might have either type of Hunted, according to the story. JLA typically has neither.

As per the FAQ, once you activate it, Limited (or maybe Adjusted, too, see below ?) SPD with Costs Endurance must be remain in effect the whole Turn. This is very simple if the Power is used in Phase 2. But what if it is activated in Phase 6 or 8, halfway through a Turn ? Does it have to stay "on" till halfway the next Turn, you can activate it on your first Phase only (if you activate it later, it does not have effect till beginning of next Turn), or can you shut down on the end of the present Turn ? Legal SPD with Costs Endurance has to stay active the whole Turn. Is this valid for Succor SPD, too (i.e., once activated, the power must last the whole Turn) ? Same question for Charges. A legal SPD with Charges needs 1 Turn Continuing Charges ?

Re: Legal status of major supergroups Practicing just a bit of thread CPR What about the perks and drawbacks of having major government sanction... Surely, the authorities would grant a salary to their top super-agents. How much Money would be worth the position ? I'd guess Well-Off, but how much points ? I guess it would have to be FBI agent or Special Forces NCO or petty official as a base, then increase it substantially to account for being a major asset, and the celebrity status. Is 5 pts maybe too much ?? Similarly, such a position brings the government to breathe on your neck like a T-Rex. Subject to Orders is a given, and so is Hunted (Government of choice), NCI, Watching, but with which frequency ? 14- is likely too much, unless the characters are really the most powerful or the one and only superhumans ever in their world, and there's an entire agency focused on coaching them. 8- is maybe too little, major superhumans are powerful assets (OTOH, survelliance might be discreet, reducing the effective frequency), and 11- might be more fit. Maybe 8- for Bronze settings, 11- for Iron settings (more paranoid governments, political intrigues and corruption would bring more confrontations with authorities). Another doubt: if the superhumans do not use ordinary weapons, only their innate superpowers, is a weapon permit still necessary, or is it subsumed in the Police Powers ?

Re: Summon as Duplication I got the idea from Ultimate Metamorph, in the Duplication discussion, p. 31. It explicitly suggests to use Summon as an alternative to Duplication if one wants "throwaway" duplicates that can be killed and then "return" the next time the character needs them. It also suggests that the power construct needs the Amicable advantage, and maybe Specific Being as well, but it does not indicates the level of Amicable that would be necessary. Personally I find the use of Specific being rather questionable.

Re: Summon as Duplication You have convinced me. Instead of summoning "my doppelganger", I change the req to "my version from an alternative timeline, with my powers, opposite sex and COM 30". Or even better have it put its Persistent Shape-Shift to good use, with either Imitation or Makeover. "This week, I command you to appear in the face and body of Jessica Alba", as it were. Shape-shift, the second-best friend of the piggy-minded superhuman (the first ever being Mind Control, of course) Nope, where are they to be found ?