Wanderer

I'm bringing this to the discussion table, since Steve declined a ruling on the issue... A STUN-only Susceptibility, that can incapacitate (e.g overwhelm him with pain, nausea, or pleasure) the character, but not kill it (i.e. it does not inflict BODY damage when the character has no STUN left, but may bring him down to -30 STUN and keep him here), how can the Disadvantage be applied ? I've thought of possible solutions: Applying some kind of positive (+5? +10?) Adder to balance for the fact that BODY damage is not suffered. Applying the rule that (p. 339, last paragraph) "the Susceptibility can inflict some damage other than STUN. In this case each d6 of STUN damage should be replaced with 10 Active Points of another attack" and the treat any level of such Susceptibility as 10 Active Points of a NND EB or Drain STUN power equivalent, continously applied as long as the Susceptibility substance/condition is present. Treating it as a Physical Limitation, and either treating presence of the sustance or condition as a NND attack or a Stun Drain. Actually, this is the option I fancy the least, since I dislike using Phys Lim to emulate other kinds of Disadvantages, such as Dependences or Susceptibilities: the Phys Lim mechanism is so grainy and clunky for emulating the fine grades of other systems. Tentatively, I'd be more in favour of option B: using the Susceptibility rule, but treating each level as 10 AP of a STUN Drain or NND EB, that is applied each time interval as long as the item or condition is present. The normal rules about healing Susceptibility damage apply. I'd be uncertain whether to use Drain or NND, though.

If one wishes to have a Susceptibility that can incapacitate the character, but not kill it (i.e. it does not inflict BODY damage when the character has no STUN left, but may bring him down to -30 STUN and keep him here), how can the Disadvantage be applied ? Should some kind of positive (+5? +10?) Adder be applied ? Or can/should one apply the rule that (p. 339, last paragraph) "the Susceptibility can inflict some damage other than STUN. In this case each d6 of STUN damage should be replaced with 10 Active Points of another attack" and the treat any level of such Susceptibility as 10 Active Points of a Drain STUN power equivalent, continously applied as long as the Susceptibility substance/condition is present ? If this is the case, should the usual Return Rate be applied, or a different one ? Thanks for your insight.

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character Me neither Especially taking into account the much more ahm, heated discussions we have been involved in. Fine advice, thanks. I have to check how much pricey the VPP would end up.

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character This seems the most useful suggestion, indeed., since as I said, such tricks should not be the point of the character, only something that is done occasionally (as it is for the Supes crew). Which tricks would you suggest as most appropriate ?? Indeed, that would be the easiest solution. A Cosmic VPP with a nice "Only for Brick and Speedster Tricks" (-1/2) Limitation, plus an Increased Endurance Cost, an Activation Roll and a Side Effect for all VPP slots. How big the VPP reserve ??

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character Well, I'd say he has some serious issues with controlling powers, since I've given him serious Activation Roll and Side Effect limitations (both for concept, and to abate point total). So some limitations in that sense would be most in concept: I rather dislike the mechanism of RSR, and prefer to use AR to do that idea whenever possible. See above for the reference. Moreover, I both welcome ideas for bricks/speedster tricks that would be most appropriate to the particular concept, and for classic Supes ones: I love to tinker, adapt, and modify, but the sheer richness of ideas in the Ultimate books is leaving me dumbfounded.

First of all, I've just got Ultimate Speedster (at last!) and from the (very cursory!) skimming I've been able to give it, I must say I cannot but heap the (usual!) truckload of commendations and praises on Steve's and the authors' head: it keeps the very high tradition of the Ultimate books, it is of very high quality and usefulness, chock-full of good ideas, and it definitely passes the Chupp test. And here comes my query ... You see, USp is chock-full of excellent ideas for speedster tricks, and I'd love to use some of them with my current character: a Superman-like energy-projector/telekinetic brick/semi-speedster hybrid. Now for the concept, some brick and speedster tricks would be appropriate, but character points being a finite quantity in this universe, I'd previously settled the issue with giving the Str a Variable Advantage and the character a high Dex and Spd. Now, reading the USp, the urge to give it some real speedster tricks, and by analogy, also some brick tricks from UBr, has returned. Which brick and speedster tricks, if any, would you deem most appropriate for a Superman-like character concept ? And how would you implement them ? Multipower, or VPP, or even Power Skill ? It would be a secondary branching out, mostly for flavour and occasional show-off and minor problem-solving, not the main character focus.

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain? In addition to all the other excellent points raised before, here's one I'd not thought of previously: problem-solving talent and survival capability: no matter how bad or lethal the circumstances where the heroes (or the villain's own treachery) manage to land him into, he can be garanteed to eventually overcome them somehow and make a brilliant comeback: granted, this feels best when the villain is of the "sympathetic" brand I talked about of, and/or has some ethical restriction to his M.O. so that his return means some other juicy confrontation with the heroes and not some other slaughter of innocents. Dr. Doom making yet another escape from death or confinement to hatch another brilliant scheme to conquer the world or humble the FF is enticing, while the Joker breaking out of Arkham for another gratuitous massacre of innocents makes you cringe in frustration. This is good because in addition to have a cool villain available again for another story, it gives the heroes reflected greatness from being able to defeat or contain such a resourceful nemesis: a good example is when Dr. Doom ends up dragged to Hell for breaking a demon pact, and Reed Richards hatches a mad scheme to bring him out of Hell to imprison him into an especially crafted prison dimension: "I can't let you stay in Hell, Victor; we both know you would eventually rule the place" (yep, old Reed was having something of a paranoid episode at the time; but old Victor has managed to steal the powers of divine beings more than once in his career; Mephisto can't really keep him subdued in the long term). Ditto for Thanos "Killing me ? Death is my on-again, off-again girlfriend, and I've stolen God's powers thrice!!". I love them cool anti-heroic Marvel noble larger than life villains: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Thanos...

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain? To all the apt points others have mentioned, I only have to remark that many interesting villains roughly divide in two main categories: the ones we love to hate, and the ones we'd love to be. The former are the ones whose motivation and personality we cannot find anything redeeming or sympathetic, but whose modus operandi, nature, or style is just too appealing, and we cannot help but wish to see again and again. In comic and RPG terms, they are the recurring villains that rarely get to be main characters or PCs. E.g. Red Skull, the Joker. The latter are the ones who have some redeeming features in their personality, a justifiable motivation, something that would make the viewer to "root" or sympathize for him in some way, and maybe wish to be if they were able to toss out scruples about societal mores. These characters might well be (anti-)heroes in comic stories and RPG games and for people with different ethical sensibilities, and often get to be the stars of their own story arc or recurring miniseries, repeteadely crossing the line between (anti-)herodom and outright villainy (typically when written by different authors). The typical examples are Dr. Doom and Magneto. They wave from being villains in four-color comics and games, to anti-heroes and noble enemies that might as well and often team up with true-blue heroes as fight them in Bronze Age comics/games, to being outright heroes in Iron Age settings and stories.

Re: Code vs Killing, in your group? We typically don't do hardcore four-color stuff, but "realistic" postmodern a la Ultimates, Supreme Power, and Authority, so the hallmark of an (anti-)heroic superpowered character is not having CvK or being law-abiding, but unwillingness to harm "innocents" and uninvolved civilians, avoiding gratuitous violence and abuse of powers, and/or having some general sense of honor/decency/mercy, following the "laws of war" and somesuch. So the typical "heroic" Psych Lims are stuff like Honorable, Dedicated to Justice, and Protect the Innocents, not CvK. Some characters may have a limited form of Reluctance to Kill if the background calls for it, but it's a personal quirk like being vegetarian or gay, not a defining prerequisite, and being a pacifist in a war or espionage story gets no special slack. If and when we do four-color stuff, characters may have a limited (non Total) CvK, and expect it not to be challenged all the time. However, when I do get to GM, players are kindly requested to avoid doing some kinds of PCs, such as fundamentalist zealots or pacifists with Total CvK. I really can't stand either in RL (I'm deeply persuaded that unwillingness to take a life even to protect many others is moral cowardice), so I can give no garantee that the impersonal forces of the setting universe won't mercilessly abuse and put any such character out of his misery at the first available occasion for some mysterious reason

Re: Battlesuits: Too efficient and flexible? In addition to the excellent summary by Terrapin, I should mention there is another battlesuit archetype as well: the Nanotech Marvel. This character type (which may resemble in all other respects any of the other Terrapin Archetypes, but most typically is a Powered Geek or Powered Kid) has the so-called battle suit as an integral part of his/her being, not a "dress", e.g. a nanotech coverage they summon out of their blood, or a mystical armor they call from an extredimensional pocket with a thought, or an array of self-repairing cyborg enhancements. While these characters (of whom the most typical example is Authority's Engineer) share with more classical Iron Man types the extremely flexible SFX justifying a very broad array of powers, they do not allow for a Focus limitation, and only in some cases for OIHID as well. Sometimes, they might justify a -1/4 Not In Lim, specifing a relatively rare condition that disables their powers (such as, ironically, the infamous Not In Intense Magnetic Fields), but most commonly the most they can aim for is some SFX-related Vulnerability and/or Susceptibility. If one wants the extensive broad SFX "laundry list" power-picking freedom of battlesuit characters, but doesn't want to bother with the issues of OIF and OIHID as well, IMO defining the suit as a nanotech technobiological hybrid is a very good solution.

Re: Hybrid Characters

Re: Setting idea: Artificial Empyreans Sure, it should be the default method for government-employed superhumans from ajors powers like U.S., Europe and Japan. Take a character with multiple high-end characteristics (hmm, I wonder just how many of these could be found in a recruiting pool like Special Forces), and it garantees almost sure reliability and limited side effects. After all, RL major powers have built thousands upon thousands of nuclear warheads. On comparison, 800-pts. Supermen combine human soldier flexibility with the military capability of WMD, and only need to be replaced if killed in battle. I wonder how many of these each major power would field at a given time, or have created during history ?? However, it is likely that numerically, the majority of supers would still be offsprings of "nulls" and active supers (you are a glamorous supersoldier major patriotic icon celebrity with the powers of a demigod, many occasions to "breed", if you care to ?), and "rogue" spontaneous supers that arise from grassroots, "street" use of the empowering process, both the ones that still choose to sign out with the man, and the lucid criminal, sociopathic, and crazed ones that are later subdued or killed. Though I guess many of these might opt to enroll later in exchange for pardon or parole (especially if superhuman insanity-dampening drugs are indeed available) if not killed in the first confrontation. and there is still all the supers (typically super-criminals, in the view of major countries) from these, too. Yep. But you can still pull a decewnt terrorist act out from the former, too. I mean, instead of bothering about plastic or planes, in a such a world, gather some fanatic followers, place them in an urban area of your enemy, feed them the super-drug, direct them to do the orgy/fight club/pain ordeal thing, then witness mass mayhem and destruction as the crazed new supers do the Hulk thing, while the sane ones do the Magneto thing. Hmm, the only thing that makes me wonder about the feasibility of such a scenario is that it would make high-powered super-terrorism too easy and too effective. How can any society survive with a 9/11 occurring every season, if not every month ? Unless governments turn *very* proactive, with Avenger-like teams of a dozen cosmic superhumans stationed in every major city on trigger readiness, and as many, if not more, *very* aggressively hunting down every rogue state, criminal cartel, and terrorist organization that employs super-soldiers. I guess it would very quickly start looking much like current days, only with spandex on major characters. I wonder how many NPC supers such a world would be likely to hold, and how many 800-pts. (and more, since that be the neophyte level; with training and experience surely, that's room to develop for plenty of 1000-1200 pointers, and some 2000-pts as well. Hullo Back, Destroyer and Takofanes ) supers mankind, society, and planet Earth may contain, before they crack apart (even if several would surely be killed or end up in hot sleep in maximum security) ?? Yep, as well as giving a nice justification for having characters with a background in Western occult or Eastern philosophy mysticism in a genetic/psionic-based, SF-slanted setting. Kudos to your nifty well-developed timeline. Allow me some time to fully review it, though

Re: Hybrid Characters Personally I'm all for hybrid characters, since I deem expected pigeonholing of character concepts into superheroic classes to be just silly. Horray for Jack of all trades characters. Why, the very genre itself has been founded by the archetypal hybrid. The only barely valid justification for putting limits to mix and matching archetypes is "niche protection", but the issue immediately solves it by the fact that point toltals and min-maxing skills being similar, hybrids will never be as good at one particular niche as specialists. Apart from creative freedom, there's another important reason why I relish hybrids: they much more look like being capable of standing on their own. True, running in teams gives help, support, and joines forces vs. "threats we cannot face alone", but a team made up of characters that look fairly capable at running solo (Avengers, JLA) gives a much better feeling than those where a character looks like a cog in the team machine. My preferred character concepts typically incorporate features from 2-4 different archetypes, from the brick/energy projector/telekinetic to the energy projector/mentalist/metamorph. Cheers fro good old Martian Manhunter, and loathing on Angel

Re: Essential Champions Books? For any kind of superheroic game: Champions (general advice about superheroic RP) Until Super Powers Database I [Revised] & II (more powers than you can imagine, organized by SFX) Ultimate Brick (all about brick characters) Ultimate Metamorph (all about characters that alter themselves) Conquerers, Killers and Crooks (extensive lists of super-villains from the official Hero superheroic setting, Champions Universe) Villainy Amok (thorough discussion of several classic superhero scenarios, and more plot ideas than you can mimagine) If you mean to use magic-based plots extensively: Ultimate Mystic (general character advice about mage characters) Mystic World (some additional advice about mage characters, and magic in the CU) Arcane Adversaries (like CKC, but magic-themed) Fantasy Hero (extensive advice and guidelines about creating magic systems) If you plan to do "cosmic" or high-powered superheroics Galactic Champions (useful general character and setting advice for cosmic, high-powered superhero RP, and the CU setting in the future) Hidden Lands (high-powered hidden civilizations in the CU, ala Atlantis, Eternals, Inhumans, etc. and characters thereof) If you plan to do a lot of gadgeteers Gadgets and Gear ("Superpower in a gadget" super-tech stuff) Hero system Equipment Guide (realistic tech stuff) If you plan to do a lot of martial arts-themed stuff Ultimate Martial Artist (general character advice about MA characters, and "realistic" martial-arts) Ninja Hero (additional characters advice about martial artists, plus extensive guidelines about wuxia-themed super-powers) (maybe) Dark Champions (powers that are really like super-normal skills) If you seek additional enemies, besides the ones in CKC & AA: Viper (the main [mostly-]techologically based villainous organization in the CU: think Hydra, AIM, Spectre. Plus one of the most high-powered super-villainess in the CU) Demon (like Viper, but magic-based, and linked to Lovecraftian evil "Outer Gods" from AA; think Chtulhu cult; these guys make demons look like goodey-good) Champions Worldwide (super-villains, and super-heroes, from outside North America and the British Isles, in the CU) If you mean a teen heroes campaign: Teen Champions If you want a pre-done superheroic setting: Champions Universe (the setting) CKC (the supervillains) AA (the magic supervillains) Mystic World (magic supervillains, mystical dimensions) GC (the future history) Champs WW (superhumans outside America and British Isles) Hidden Lands (Kirbyesque hidden city superpowered offshoots of humanity) Millennium City (futuresque city setting) Viboria Bay (mystic-themed city setting) Teen Champions (the X-men-like Super-Academy of the setting) If you wish to "super-normal" highly-trained characters (Batman) and/or grim & gritty antihero/vigilante characters (Punisher) Dark Champions (all about action hero stuff: firearms, realistic high-tech [duplicated in Equipment Guide], super-skills, and advice about anti-heroic vigilante and action hero "killing" morality) Dark Champions the Animated Series (Batman-styled superheroics) Gadgets and Gear (super-tech gadgets) (maybe) Ultimate Martial Artists (Batman type characters often use a lot of MAs) (maybe) Ninja Hero (ditto)

Re: Setting idea: Artificial Empyreans Hmm, that would mean, if keeping immediate activations at a 10-60% rate (depending on subject's genetic potential), 40% become nulls (and 50% die) among average people, while all people with a signficant amount of exceptional genetic potential (at least two Chars at 18+) become nulls and none die. I like it. What's your opinion on the other features I concocted (rare 'wildcard' genetic potential -AKA loophole to justify GM's Fiat -, risk of psychological side effects, increased risk of the same on 'nulls' activation, the more risky but more effective "get wild and erupt" and "meditate really hard" methods, the "expensive like a nuclear bomb" method, etc.; have any suggestions on these ? I have further realized that if you postulate that the technique is also available from a natural-occurring substance (clue rare herb or derivate from rare animal), and you hypothesize that a hidden subculture has been around to use it (maybe combined with either of the self-activation methods) since (pre)historic times, you have a perfect justification to insert something like the Empyreans in such a SF-slanted setting: and you don't even need the usual god-like aliens to perform mazing genetic tricks to create them in the first place: someone long ago first discovered the technique, had empowered children and shared the trick among trusted comrades, and bingo a millennia-old subculture of powerful immortal supers to create legends of gods, demons, and wizards. Quite likely two or more competing subgroups with opposite philosophies, one using the "orgy" method, the other using the "meditation" methiod, and you have the "warring supers playing the parts og gods vs. demons" scenario. Even better: in Victorian times, intrepid explorers and investigators of the unknown eventually discover and travel to the hidden cities where the Empyrean-like supers live, somehow manage to escape and steal the secret (and some samples of the empowering substance), and they share the discovery with their fringe scientist pals. The latter eventually manage to produce a synthetic analog, and bingo the path to power is opened again. Unfortunately, they are not yet aware that additional steps (either administering the treatment to subjects with exceptional potential, or having them to undergo special triggering regimens) are needed to substantially increase the odds of success. Hmm, the brutal conditions of war look like the perfect environment to have the extreme stess odd-improving methoid to be casually rediscovered. Simply have 'null' conscipt subjects returned to the trenches. This causes a bunch of powerful Supermen, several of them somehow crazed or sociopathic, to emerge from the ranks. I'd modify the timeline so: postpone the first mass test discovery to just before WWII, from Germany and Japan. When the treatment is mass-used by them on conscripts, a bunch of Supermen emerge from the ranks. After some infighting and culling, a number of power-hungry sociopathic supers emerge and either seize the power in both nations or become the elite branch of the armny and launch a world-wide blitzkrieg. On the verge of being overrun, desperate Allies scientists discovery a much more expensive version of the treatment that allows to very reliably produce more psychologically stable supers, which are used to push back the enemy and eventually win the war. Most German and Japanese supers (and several from the Allied ranks) are killed in war. Survivors' offspring and "nulls" who did activate from war stresses add their genes to the pool. Or more likely, they are simply subsumed in the metahuman elite that takes over Axis nations (one may even assume that part of the Nazi elite manages to successfully undergo the treatment: e.g. it can be assumed that Hitler himself had exceptional EGO and PRE and he was prone to extreme rage outbursts, so he might have been a good subject to erupt himself). Some revision to Nazi ideology must to occur, but the demonstrable reality of a genetic offshoot of humanity being able to access godlike powers acts to a mighty boost to their philosophy. Therefore, it must follow that even if Nazi Germany is eventually defeated, the thorough discredit of related ideologies like racism, belief in unequality of man, and eugenetics which occurs in RL doies not occur here. Even if eventual realization that potential to erupt as a superman is widespread in the human race balance it to a degree, the fact that some people may get the powers of demigods, and exceptional personal qualities or effort gives greater potential, greately weakens the strength of egualitarianism. Moreover, developed countries have much greater and early presence to superhumans than Thirld World ones (unless countries like China and India do not rediscover early the meditation technique). Therefore, even if they likely eventually occur, events like decolonization and racial desgregation are retarded, and egualitarian political movements (like communism) get nowhere the success they have in RL. It is likely that unless Soviet Union gets the "nuclear-bomb-like" method very early, communism falls very early, either during or just after WWII. If however, they do, Cold War proceeds more similar to RL, even if it is still likely to swing more and earlier in the favour of the West (no division of Germany, no red China or America wind Korea and Vietnam thoroughly, etc.). Women liberation is likely to occur as soon or earlier as in RL. Yep. And in addition, during the '60s a version of the treatment who may be synthetized like a (quite expensive) street drug is discovered and/or spreads among the counterculture movements. In combination to the children of nulls erupting, and the fact that "free love" orgiastic and psychedelic experiences significantly eruptions, this leads to the appearance of many supers that are not linked to the military, government, or conscription. Even if, if foreign wars are still fought in the period, you may have plenty of a "second wave" or military-created or conscription-created supers, too. Of course, several of these new supers go rogue, which creates the need to recruit or create more trusty supers to restrain or subdue them, too. Of course, veteran super survivors from WWII are still around, and being immortal are not going to go away, too, which creates more of generation clash of philosophies. Even if different philosophic divides are likely to develop in the super communities: those who purposefully sought powers vs. them who had them thrust by chance or forced experimentation, those who developed them from the counterculture movement, vs. those who developed or were given them in the military. And eventually, some among all those Supermen-like immortal beings running around are likely to realize that besides their petty ideological squabbles, they have much more in common between empowered folks than with those inferior monkeys squabbling around. If they were really worthy, they would have swallowed the pill, tried the ritual, or been trusted with the treatment. If you aren't willing to try on your own, or being deemed worthy of external assistance for "apotheosis", surely you are an inferior being, and it stand to no logic that gods should take orders or heeds the laws of inferiors, isn't it ? Therefore, many clashes from emerging factions of supers: some attached (and likely being given a place among the elites) to major or emerging powers, some upholding different political philosophies (with more extreme fringes surely trying an hand at super-terrorism), some upholding some brand of metahuman supremacy and/or separatism. The fact that in this setting, the average super is on a (non-Silver Age) Superman-like level of power, ensures that no human socio-political major entity can hope to survive for long, unless it is lead or supported by supers. Apart from the threatened use of nuclear weapons, war and law enforcement almost entirely becomes a super business, except for very minor matters. Normals both idolize and are terrified by supers, and in their hearts of hearts, hope that they or their children become one, or dream of ways to exterminate them all. Government try hard to expunge "street drug" ways of getting powers, but they prove impossible to eliminate. There is a steady strem of new supers that are likely recruited into the elite, or become parts of rebel factions and are contained (or executed) if caught and too dangerous. Major super-battles become a regular occurrence. We must reflect on whether it is possible for human cities and society !! to survive the attrition of this. Surely platoons of cosmic supers may give a huge boost to the much-needed recurring urban reconstruction. Or a chivalric culture emerges among supers (and their would-be) or taking their battles away from sheep... err, normals if at all possible, except for the most crazied of them.

Re: Setting idea: Artificial Empyreans Of course. As a matter of fact, I got my inspiration from the Ultimates universe, where all these elements are strongly present, and the world is in the grip of a full-blown "genetic arms race" for manufactured superpowers. However, the Ultimate Universe may be a good inspiration for a setting where this kind of superpower-inducing technology is being developed in the '90s and '00s, and it's easy to see what kind of developments it would induce in the setting: government-induced high-powered supers becoming the "decisive weapon" alongside or in place of WMD and conventional military in war, espoinage, and international power play, major powers (such as US, Europe, China) becoming even more powerful overbearing and paranoid than in RL, rogue states and terrorist movements getting even more ruthless, super-powered mass terrorism and disaster relief getting more frequent, the masses both idolizing and fearing supers, etc. However, I wonder, how else would society and history would have different if we project the discovery back to the 70-80s, or the 50-60s, or the 40s? How history would have changed if WWII or the Cold War would have been fought by platoons of Supermen, or the 60s youth movement had had a drug subculture with acces to substances able to turn a minority in powerful superhumans ? What about super-veterans: just an example it is plain that an America possessed of several high-powered super-Special Forces would have crushed Vietnam like a dry leaf. Indeed, as it is the fact that most high-powered supers would have been voluntereed or actively sought to gain superpowers to the risk of life and sanity. I specifically wanted the "street drug" version as a plausible way to allow this kind of supers to have a background different from "Special Forces or CIA veteran", provided the subject had a burning desire to get superpowers. Street drugs are relatively easy (but not free) to acquire, are most commonly used by (disaffected) youth, and allow to explore all kinds of juicy issues: e.g. given how popular and widespread steroids are, how many people would gladly face the very real chance of death (or insanity) for a bad-odds but real chance to get immortality and the powers of Superman, especially if you are quite unsatisatified with your life or place in society or have a burning desire to be empowred to advance a idellogical agenda you subscribe to ? This the kind of scenario I would like to explore in such a setting, yes. Even if I specifically inserted the possibility of the treatment inducing psychological problems and a "street drug" version of the treatment in order to have a plausible source of several kinds of super-villains: the sociopathic or megalomanic hardened criminal, the raged, impusive or paranoid brute (but definitely not with reduced intelligence; I loathe the Green Hulk "dumb brick" stereotype; IMO it's one of the stupidest cliches in comics); the fanatic ideological terrorist; the disaffected angsty youth " without a cause". What this scenario lacks is two common sources of superpowers in the genre: one is intentional ("radiation accidents": this is another comics cliche I utterly despise: IMO the main source of superpowers should either be a random genetic quirk, or purposefully sought or induced by experimentation), the other (mutants) is not. This scenario only easily allows it in a limited fashion (offspring of existing supers, children of "nulls"). Hmm, since we have hypothesized that a "street drug" version of the reatment exists, why not further hypothesizing that sometime, some group might have once mass-released it either airborne, or in water supplies ?? Survivors, or their children, begin to develop powerful superpowers years later when exposed to extreme stress or emotions...

Re: Setting idea: Artificial Empyreans Err, percentages of successes are tentative. They are meant to enforce some conditions of the scenarios: a) powerful supers can only somewhat reliably produced by major governments, but not really mass-produced even by them (complexity and effort similar to nuclear weapons); organized crime, corporations, political movements, super groupies and angsty adolescents can try to undergo an inferior (and much more risky) version of the process that is somewhat as accessible as illegal drugs, but only the really foolhardy or desperate would do so c) there must be a realistic, reliable source for criminal supers (hence the treatment would have to induce sociopathy is some of the subjects) Would the scenario work better if the success rates are modified to: 10% basic, plus 10% for each of DEX, CON, BODY, INT, EGO, PRE at 18+, double (or maybe triple) it for the nuclear-like treatment version, same likelihood as basic process of turning out a super offspring if a super mates with a normal, keep same likelihood (or at most halve it: ie 25% for basic process, 10% for the more complex, expensive version) of inducing sociopathy ? Otherwise, what kind of success rates would you suggest instead ? I'll modify the success and side effect rates.

Please assume and give your insight about the following scenario: EDIT: modified success and psychological side effect rates A genetic treatment (Omega Process) is discovered that enables normal humans to be permanently endowed with Empyrean-like psionic-based superpowers; about 800 pts in typical Empyrean powers: for those who don’t have Hidden Lands (shame on you ! ), assume about 400 pts in low-end Kryptonian-like or Eternal-like flying immortal brick/speedster powers, plus other about 400 pts in 3-4 100/150-pts sets of brick, energy manipulation, telekinetic, mentalist, healer, speedster, matter control, shapeshifter, or healer powers (and potential to eventually develop all of the above, with trial, effort and training). The process has a basic success rate of 10%, plus 10% for each of DEX, CON, BODY, INT, EGO, or PRE at 18+, and is as complex and expensive as in vitro fertilization. Failure causes death. Extremely sophisticated procedures (about as expensive and complex as building a nuclear weapon) can double the likelihood of success (or triple it if you expend as ten times the money and effort as building a nuclear weapon). About 30% of the successful cases (or 15% if the more complex versions of the treatment are used) develop sociopathic tendencies similar to recidivist criminals. Mating of two Omegas always breeds true, while an Omega mating with a normal human is about as successful as the basic process (10%, up to 60% if the mate is a human with exceptional genetic potential, as indicated by very high physical and/or mental Characteristics). How history and society would be affected (in a realistic setting) if the treatment is discovered: - just before, or during, WWII (assume either U.S., or both U.S. and Nazi Germany, discover it) - during the ‘60s (America gets it first; other major powers may steal or develop the technology on its own after 5-10 years) - during the ‘80s or early ‘90s (ditto) - just now. Assume society and psychology of individuals is realistic, as it is science (as much as allowed by the existence of superpowers, anyhow). Let's further assume that in this setting biological scientific development gets a bit more of an head start than in RL and keeps the same pace than development of nuclear technology, so that in vitro fertilization and brute genetic manipulation can be somewhat plausible in the '40s or '60s.

Re: Fair or Munchkin? Funny, I generally have the opposite experience, I often have an overabudance of ideas for Disadvantages, and even if I am in a dry spell, leafing through published characters in Hero sourcebooks or lists of disadvantages in sites like the Master List of Limitations gives many more fitting Disadvantages for a given character than allowed limits. Cutting them down to 200 pts is akin to pigeonholing a whole basketball team in a backpack.

Re: Fair or Munchkin? Excellent idea. One has only to be prepared to stand an exceeding number of low-points mentalist characters built without it.

Re: Fair or Munchkin? That's an entirely different question, and your house rule certainly has merit (though, the cynic in me wonders how many players of mentalist characters on somehow tight point budgets would actually care to buy Mental Awareness, instead of, say, the Telepathic Advantage for Mind Control, hence the canon rule). I was just trying to show that if one accepts the canon system, there are builds where the no-MA Limitation has a fitting place, and admittedly, in a build like mine, with a Psionic Powers MP having several other Limitations, how many points may an additional -1/4 Lim save ? I guess not many more than 3.

Re: Fair or Munchkin? Now, now that's far too drastic IMO. It's true that the the proposed build is rather questionable (I share the opinion that the very pejorative "munchkin" label should be reserved to behaviors that activwely spoil others' fun), but the modifier by itself has its legitimate role: e.g. consider this build: Biokinetic Neural Control Powers: Multipower, 75-point reserve, (75 Active Points); all slots Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4) Mental Control: Mind Control 10d6 (Human and Alien classes of minds), Telepathic (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) Mindscapes: Mental Illusions 10d6 (Human and Alien classes of minds), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (75 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) Mind Reading: Telepathy 10d6 (Human and Alien classes of minds), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (75 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) I don't see any problem with it.

Re: Suggestions on 'Cosmic-type' build

Re: Suggestions on 'Cosmic-type' build Please do. I might have some use for it

Re: Supervillain Psych Lims: The Reboot I disagree. IMO Vader is a typical example of a "functional" villain that has Casual Killer but not the "evil" psych lims above. Vader is not a sadist, to him killing is a tool, he has something like "Tyrannical but fair" ruler, plus Casual Killer. the latter is the "I don't qualm about killing" that earmarks the person as lacking any ethical or psychological barriers to the act of killing per se (the other psych lim define how and when the character deems right to kill). It is a disadvantage because people who lack it find a casual killer frightening and creepy, not because they are moved to kill when it's not advantageous. The latter happens when the character has other psych foibles that create a difficulty to self-control, see long-term and enlightened self-interest, and create an urge to kill (e.g. for fun or pleasure). It is questionable whether Vader would have Honorable. He is seen to cheat and renege deals without too much qualms, so if he has, it is Moderate at the very most. A typical fictional character that would have Casual Killer, Honorable, and "tyrannical but fair" mindset, and no "evil" psych lim would be Doctor Doom. He will gladly kill those who fail or hamper him, but he despises violence without a good pragmatic reason, he acts fair to those who deserve his respect (even if he will gladly take advantage of fools), and if he has given his word to you, he will cross the length and breadth of Hell twice to be true to it. IMO there are three types of Psych Lims "villains" might have: dysfunctional ones (like evil or sadist), "pragmatic" ones (like casual killer or ruthless) and good ones (like honorable). The value of the first is that they both give a social penalty and can be made advantage of, or move the character to act against its own best self-interest, the second at most give a social penalty (for friendly interactions, but may actually give a bonus fro intimidation), the third can made advangew of by an enemy. Characters like Vader and Doom have 2 and/or 3, but not 1. Typically this makes the difference between downright villains that "we love to dispatch" and are typically despised, and anti-heroes and sympathetic villains that many may like, "love to see again", or root for, or at least respect. There is "petty" evil and not. In a RPG sense, some villains are easy PC material, and some are not.