Wanderer

Re: Quick confusion on Unusual Senses Following this reasoning to its logical consequences, Disadvantages and Limitations should not ever exist, since anything remotely and indirectly useful should be charged hard points, no matter how trivial and indirect. Let's ask people to pay points for their normal senses, 0-10 Characteristics, and ability to sire/bear children, instead of letting crippled characters rob the system by getting extra points. We cannot absolutely allow characters to get these precious abilities scot-free. Or you can define that any kind of Super-Sense (AKA Detect) automatically comes with the ability to ignore barriers, and define Limitations and/or Negative Adders if they can't do that, either for some kinds of materials or all. Since super-senses aren't normal, it looks natural that normal obstacles don't stop them. Yes, it does. Under your system, all people who bought any kind of "Sixth Sense" power, from Spatial Awareness to Magic Sense to Cosmic Awareness, not to mention Danger Sense, would be charged 10 points more. It looks unfair. They do. They did pay the appropriate price for those Spatial Awareness, Cosmic Awareness, and Danger Sense. Or you can assume that such an ability is a fair part of the default package, and if anything, those who didn't got it are entitled to a refund. It is fair both ways. But my way keeps the customer significantly happier. Hero already has a not-so-unfunded reputation for annoyingly asking players to pay points for the most trivial things. IMO, your approach would just worsen the stereotype. The issue is just on defining what is the fair price and what should go in the default package. You approach reminds me of those exploitative services and sellers that heap surcharge upon surcharge upon the most basic things. Like buying a car, and having to pay for the tires separately, and buying a ticket, and then having to pay to use the restroom. The same reason because Flight bought at default price allows the ability to hover and fly in any direction, without need of an Adder for that, and if you don't get it, you get a Limitation. Any Power comes with an expected minimum amount of effectivenes. Otherwise, you get into a trap of infinite granularity, trying to define ever-smaller amounts of usefulness and charge for each. You are entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled to respectfully but forcefully disagree. The analogy with Attacks is fallacious, since being able to damage something at range is whole degrees of magnitude more useful than being able to sense it. Moreover, it is not well supported by source material, since there are many more examples of ranged paranormal senses that are not stopped by ordinary barriers, and need extraordinary shielding to be stopped, if ever. Venerable as it may be, Superman's X-Ray Vision is but one example in a very broad genre, with many contrary examples, and I deem wholly unfair to base a whole power type on the foibles of one single homage legacy. See above. The flaw here is that canon Hero felt the unfortunate need to cater to the foibles of a legacy homage to Kryptonian superpowers, without providing for the price discount that would have balanced it. Ruining the elegance of a system in order to cater to homage for one legacy SFX is IMO contrary to the spirit of Hero of not reasoning from SFX. N-Ray should just get a slight discount for its one-material problem, and let Detects do their thing in peace. If you don't, indeed to buy N-Ray instead of a broad-scope Detect is rather dumb, but it's N-Ray that is written unbalanced, not the rest of Enhanced Senses. Asking 90% of SFX to pay more in order to leave the 10% unchanged is just bad system design.

My gaming/comics pals and me wonder what would be the most appropriate response, according to common sense and dramatic need, if an Enraged disadvantage activates when its proper trigger isn't present: e.g. a "Berserk might" type power is activated outside of combat (e.g. to perform a strength or speed feat), an enemy mentalist's manipulation or Change Environment effect causes the Enraged to trigger anyway, etc. Some possibilities: A) the character remains in simmering, barely-kept rage till the next combat or meeting with the normal stimulus, or anything barely smilar, then automatically plunges in immediate rage the character departs seeking an appropriate target to vent his rage C) the character vents his rage on the inanimate stuff nearby D) the character's Enraged temporarily shifts to Berserk. We also debated whether it would be dramatically appropriate for such a character, to be allowed a Ego roll to keep such "unnatural" Enraged in check, in order to finish an heroic action (typical case, character activates berserk strength to sustain a crumbling building up, he barely keeps rage in check until building is evacuated, then gives in to rage) or to keep his Enraged from shifting to Berserk.

I'm wondering whether the Affects Body Only (-1/2) for Shapeshift, assuming the typical "body control" SFX a la Mystique or DC's Martians and innate superpowers, would make sense for the typical Superheroic campaign. On one hand, the character can grow realistic-looking imitations of clothing from his own flesh. And he doesn't really need to carry equipment or Foci regularly. OTOH, such faux clothing is part of the shapeshifter's flesh, and can only be removed or changed by using the power. And even a Focus-less superhuman with innate superpowers may occasionally need to carry and disguise equipment on his person. Assuming the basic Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing, Touch), any humanoid form, No END to maintain form, Imitation package, Persistent optional. I wonder since many iconic superheroic cosmetic shapeshifters' powers would actually change the body, but not clothing or carried equipment.

Re: Quick confusion on Unusual Senses Ok, I can see your point even if I don't share your discomfort with canon. However, I really dont think a new Adder would be the most appropriate response. If it's really needed, rather a new Limitation. Given that a) Normal Sight needs to be added one such newfangled "Detect" Sense to its Sense Group in order to have this ability concerning such Detects, SFX-wise, it is on average rather more common to have the ability to sense through barriers than not c) I don't really see the need to increase the typical character point bill in Hero yet again, and many character concepts are appropriate for such a Power, I deem far more appropriate to add a new Limitation to Detects that can't perceive through barriers, than a new Adder to allow to do so. Moreover, it would minimize changes from current canon. Defining a new canon Limitation, and assume all Detects can sense through physical barriers in its absence, would settle your concerns just as easily.

Re: Quick confusion on Unusual Senses Arguing whether the ability to perceive through physical barriers should theoretically be paid for with an newfangled Adder, is one thing. Personally, I'm against it, and happy with canon, since it would unnecessarily complicate things, and I'm undaunted by the Indirect analogy, since being able to Attack through obstacles is way more useful than perceiving through them. Anyway, YMMV. What I find absurd is to complain about the current system being unfair. In Hero, any sense that allows to perceive through walls needs to be built from the ground up, using Detect, and all Detects are more or less, barring SFX foibles, allowed to do that. N-Ray Perception, Spatial Awareness, Cosmic Awareness, they are but different names and different implied SFX for just the same thing and do the same thing. Of course, once you have created the Sense, you have to choose whether to leave it in Unusual sense group or link it to SFX esotic groups, or link to vanilla natural Senses. Either choice has advantages and drawbacks, and they balance out. It's not like Normal Sight Man gets unfairly singled out because he cannot see through walls, and has to buy N-RP, whileas Cosmic Awareness Guy gets it scot-free. They have to buy the same power, with a different name.

Re: Quick confusion on Unusual Senses Except that, differently from Targeting, no such Adder is assumed or provided by the rulesystem. Whether you can percieve through obstacles or beyond other things you can perceive, it is assumed to be based on SFX and common sense. Proof is, the default "detect through obstacles" powers, are defined as Detect Physical Stuff only, there's no trace of the Adder you ask for. Of course, you can houserule it in, if you really really feel it's necessary.

Re: Quick confusion on Unusual Senses I don't see why they should, given that Indirect is fundamentally an Advantage fit for Attack powers (I can shoot you around the corner) and that some natural senses already include the ability to feel around barriers, such as Hearing and Smell. Like Telekinesis, some Senses simply have the ability to be automatically kinda-Indirect, by their very nature. It's an area where common sense has to trump system logic purism.

Re: Quick confusion on Unusual Senses My current character happens to have a "cosmic awareness" type sense much similar to the one you mention. We always assumed as plain that any such sense can see through/past any object without any difficulty, for a variety of reasons. A) It's the way such senses work in source material. Spatial Awareness and N-Ray Perception, which are both explictly built to do so, are created as Detect Physical Objects C) An entry in the FAQ, which I'm going to quote, tells so explicitly:

Re: Power Skills, Xp, and Power Stunts

Re: WWYCD "super" registration If his character manages to be very influential in UK, and/or supers are very popular there, it might happen. I concede it seems quite unlikely in present geopolitics, but things change. A generation ago, Iran was one of the most strong Middle East allies of the US, and Poland was a sworn enemy. Anywa, if UK manages to absorb the vast majority of the US super population as refugees, they will win any such war with ease. Remember, in any such settings with (decently powerful) supers exist, the are the decisive weapon.

Re: Power Skills, Xp, and Power Stunts

Re: Power Skills, Xp, and Power Stunts Ok folks, I yield to the forum consensus. The way I interpreted the canon guidelines, they strongly suggested the GM to keep a very strict control on the number of times the Power Skill is used to replicate the same kind of power stunt. If I was wrong, and this was way stricter than the actual scope of the rule, I can be but happy to be wrong. So please don't get your plumes ruffled. It was an honest mistake. I do think my suggestion may still get good use to allow a character to buy a new power, a new Framework slot, or even a whole new Framework a bit at a time, with practice. It would a good way to justify gradually buying a whole VPP of "power tricks".

One area where Hero/Champions really loses face in comparison with the Distinguished Opposition is the management of power stunts. You have no ready mechanism to manage dynamic improvisation of superhuman stunts as variants of existing powers, as opposed to temporary boosting of them (well covered by Haymaker). Power Skills are a wholly unsatisfactory way of managing them, since of the injunction that any single stunt should be used once ever. I have searched for a possible solution, and here is one: any time a Power Stunt is done by means of the Power Skill(s), if the player invests one Experience Point in the stunt, it doesn't count for tallying whether such a stunt has been used before. The Experience points invested this way can be used to buy the stunt as a new power in its own right, as a slot for an existing Power Framework, or even to buy a whole new Power Framework, eventually. If a VPP is eventually bought, the points invested in the Power Skills can be used to pay for it, too. Opinions ?

Re: Civil War "Oh, the angst of having to fight misguided but well-meaning superhuman kindred in our righteous quest to lead our people from servitude to their manifest destiny. Can't you be swayed to see the light, brother ? Must we fight this fratricide battle for the sake of ungrateful bigot monkeys that oppress and persecute us at the flimsiest excuse ? Can't you see that the time for peaceful discussion and cooperation with them is long past, once the first of us was imprisoned or killed for refusing their slavery ? How sad. How pitiful. How senseless." OTOH, if your characters leave the country, they won't be around to get in the way while mine spearhead the Glorious Metahuman Revolution. Smash the System ! Freedom For The Metas ! Death to Tony and Reed ! --- Yeah, it's one of those long-standing floating memes in the fandom, just like people asking "what is the best superhero RPG of all ?" on rpg.net every week or so.

Re: WWYCD: King Arthur's back Exactly that. Oh the horror

Re: WWYCD: One Wish Nova would likely make an impulsive wish to be irresistible to gorgeous women... and then the next story would be the "Harem Comedy from Hell" scenario. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60379

Re: Dist. Features (But OIHID????) I would allow it, with the Easy to Conceal. The character might also qualify to have a second Distint. Fea. as a Mystic Aura (impossible to conceal, noticeable to unsual senses).

Re: Civil War Haven't we had this kind of discussion as a WWYCD scenario, recently ? http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60584 Anyway, Nova goes to the Anti-Reg rebellion like a fish in water at godspeed, since this is the kind of worst-case scenario that his Magneto Complex has foreseen and he has trained himself to face. He goes to deliver the following speech on the verge of the law being passed, then once the first casualties of the conflict happen, or the first resister is thrown into the Negative Zone, he goes to track the politicians responsible for passing the law and its chief executors, and ensures they are casaulties of war. He then does his very best to ensure that the government is brought on his knees to repeal the program, by any means necessary. If they want all-out war, let them have it. "I have no opposition to a voluntary registration scheme. Let them those supers who want to be cops or soldiers or want to reveal their secrets to the government, be. But mandatory registration of powers and identities only serves to open the door for servitude and discrimination of my people, if not far worse. The laws of man were not for supers in the first place, but superior beings stripped of the rights even mere humans enjoy and enslaved to serve the whims of demagogues and bureaucrats is outrage beyond words. I will never obey it, and assist all those who will resist it, by any means necessary. I will continue to do my best as I see fit, to make the world a better place. The moment someone tries to use force on me or any other super because of this Act, I will retaliate with proportionate force. The moment lethal force is used, I will acknowledge this as a declaration of war by this government against the whole paranormal race. You guys are asking for a war you cannot win, risking the loss of huge chunks of your armed forces, economy, and infrastructure. I regret the appalling destruction and loss of lives, but I will make sure the politicians and commanders, or whoever may be manipulating them, that caused this tragedy will be preferential targets. How good are your plans for continuity of government, folks ? It would be nice to have someone with the authority to talk about peace terms, when the dust settles on this tragic farce".

Re: WWYCD: King Arthur's back I have no problem with defeating a cosmic powerhouse by use of their inborn Achilles' Heels. That's what they are for, after all. Nor by using very clever trickery, excellent strategical planning, or exploiting of the powerhouse's psych foibles. I have a very big problem with *mortal* martial artists going into hand-to-hand combat with cosmic powerhouses, trusting their excellent dojo training, and getting anything but the worst beating of theri lives, if they indeed survive. In any setting of mine, Karate Kid ought to have died a very messy death. Now, if the martial artist happens to be a true superhuman whose powers involve super combat prowess (e.g. Midnighter, Cap. America), the bets are off. I just deeply loathe the "if you know Judo well enough, you can throw Superman" cliche.

Re: WWYCD: Registration Payback Nova would make a roaring laugh and inquire whether the "villains" responsible of this would be in need of any assistance.

Re: WWYCD: King Arthur's back

Re: WWYCD: King Arthur's back Indeed, but the real question is: what kind of menace is coming to cause Arthur to return, which is worse than all the other stuff the setting has already seen, and why Nova and the other cosmic luminaries aren't supposed to handle that fine on their own, without the help of a feeble 5th-century mortal with an oversized cut-all letter opener ? Therefore, Nova would pledge assistance and be rejoyced that the Universe has apparently seen fit to return such an honorable man to the world, worrying about the implications, and trying to investigate. Waht if this is just a hoax ? If it is true, why Arthur hasn't been returned as a powerful superhuman ? What does this mean for the Manifest Destiny of superhumans ?

Re: WWYCD: Welcome Divinity? Hmm, I guess Nova would likely take offense at what you are implying here.

Assume a character is meant to have Invisibility (Sight, Hearing, Radio), No Fringe, Only When Not Attacking. SFX-wise, a cloaking power (of whatever SFX) that is good enough to cover while moving, but not while violently displaying powers. Questions: Is it legal to buy just Only When Not Attacking, without Chamaleon ? Could one substitute Chamaleon with a -1/4 "Only While Moving At Walking Speed" (say the cloaking is not good enough to adapt at superhuman running/flying speeds). When a OWNA Invisibility cloaking has been broken by an attack, what is necessary to re-establish it, apart from stopping attacks ? An attack action to use the power ? Disengaging from combat entirely ? Distancing yourself from opponent (how much ?) ? Going outside the opponent's sensory range (e.g. turn a corner) ? Going to a new scene ?

Re: WWYCD: Welcome Divinity?