Wanderer

Re: Limited Power Defense Ineffective. I wish to build an Invulnerability to all Instant depowering attacks, regardless of SFX, without making it invulnerable to Constant power negators as well.

Suppose I wish a character to be highly resistant and even effectively immune to Instant "depowering" attacks, such as "neutralization gun" Drains, Transform spells, Transfer vampiric touches, and the like, but keep vulnerable to Constant ones, such as Suppress "power negator collars" or "dampening fields", the SFX being that the character's system quickly recovers from unwanted transformations of the body and damage targeting one's characteristics and powers, but cannot adapt to ongoing suppression of such traits. Likewise, the character should remain vulnerable to long-term mental manipulation, such as Mental Transforms. Following this line of thought, I also suppose that the best way to implement this in Hero terms is to buy Power Defense with the Limitation ("Not vs. Suppresses and Mental Transforms") or ("Only vs. Drains/Transfers and Body Transforms"). Any idea about the fair price for such a Limitation, which wording would you use, and how much PD would you buy to effect such an invulnerability (both at Standard and Cosmic power levels) ??

Re: Heroes for pay Typically, Secret ID concerns matters rather less for sanctioned heroes. It makes absolutely sense for them to draw a regular paycheck, and a rather hefty at that; super-agents are quite more precious than regular cops, doctors, firemen, or soldiers, so they should all have the Money perk (say 2-3 for city defenders: 5 minimum for JLA/Avengers national/global enforcers). Plus the perks of free. tax-payer provided equipment, base, vehicles, fringe benefits, full medical plans. Their job either is their super-job (likely) as an hybrid super-cop/super-soldier, or they have a cover job in some defense or intelligence agency. Their loved ones either live under cover in a version of the Witness Program, or live in the base. Their Secret ID, if it does exist, is a national security issue, and anyone that tries to break it can expect a lot of people in black suits to show up at their door posthaste. They can take the stand, buy property, sign contracts, in their code name.

Re: Superhero Legal Disclaimers Yes, even if I was giving some thought that probably the first part of the warning might benefit from some shortening, likely an Acronym in true paramilitary fashion. I mean, any government agency that employs super-agents is going to deal with law enforcement, defense, and disaster relief concerns all at once, a crossbreed between Army's Special Forces, FBI/CIA, and Homeland Security, so maybe something like MEtahuman DIsaster Crime TErrorism Prevention Agency MEDICTEPA officer. I dunno, trying to come up with an acronym that would sound true to function and would be somewhat spellable. I'm not a native English-speaker, so by all means improve it if you fancy it. "I'm a MEDICTEPA officer. I'm empowered am empowered to use all relevant abilities to protect the innocent and public safety." I think that any government that employs superhumans is going to have them deal with a wide set of concerns beyond crime and law enforcement, ranging to disaster relief and prevention, counter-terrorism, war situations, probably switching their liasons with different government agencies as different kinds of crises arose. They should be a mix of FBI/BATF/DEA (high-scale crime, both normal and super), FEMA (disaster relief), Homeland Security (terrorism, both normal and super), CIA (counter-intelleigence), and Special Forces (war/"police actions"), maybe even CDC (epidemy control, if their powers are relevant) so their name should reflect them. Of course, you may have some supers work this full time, or be a kind of Reserve/National Guard that only gets mobilized under emergencies. Karmakaze's options 1 & 2.

Re: Superhero Legal Disclaimers Being an European, I'm not that much familiar with U.S. law, but I'll shoot "I'm a metahuman crime and terrorism prevention officer. Surrender and follow me peacefully. I am empowered to use lethal force and all relevant paranormal abilities to protect the innocent and public safety. You have been warned."

Re: Modifiers for Cloning The latter trumps general duration rules for Powers, is valid for vanilla Duplication, and indicates that barring an incompatible SFX, by default Duplicates survive, forever disconnected from the original, when it dies. I can hardly think of a more "lasting" SFX for Duplication than cloning. This is doubly true for Cannot Recombine Duplication, whose copies are already disconnected at creation (it's Always On by default). Delayed Effect and Trigger "charges" built into Universal and (even more so) Independent Foci most definitely do not fade at a character's death, barring incompatible SFX. This is most easy to build. Use time. If the character does not give the right deactivation password every X weeks/months, the Focus automatically activates/creates the clone. Any computer can do it. It can be linked to the base's computer or AI, or be a part of the cloning device. UOO is only necessary if you wish to duplicate someone that does not "own" (has paid points) for the focus/base. Any member of the team that has contributed points can use it. Tha Advantage is necessary, however, if you wish to copy allies or dependents.

Re: Modifiers for Cloning This is one reason, another is that I get just a little driven by the SFX flavor and concieve Resurrection Healing/Regeneration as more of a magical/cosmic or biological/mutant inborn "reanimation" power (although I've been toying with the idea of giving characters Resurrection Regeneration with the meta-genre SFX of "comic book death", even if for the life of me cannot tell what the mandatory loophole would be), whereas technological or magical "copy" cloning seems more the province of Duplication. Moreover, Resurrection is more of an all or nothing power, it either works perfectly, restoring the original character to the state it was just before death or it meets the loophole condition and it stays dead, whereas Duplication is more forgiving, with no mandatory loophole, but also liable to all kinds of potential complications (from premature Misfired activation of clone when original is still alive to clone getting some psychological foibles from imperfect duplication or partial amnesia from not up to date memory recording) which are potential juicy plot hooks which I'd not mind to have, so Duplication is my blessing to the GM to have some nice classic clone stories. I like them, and clone characters: Kon-El's Superboy was one of the very few mainstream DC characters I fancy. Last, but not east, who says I'm not so adverse to death of my favorite characters that I pull a "Death of Superman" or Doctor Doom by giving them both Resurrection Regeneration and Cloning Duplication ?? The likelihood of them both failing is infinitesimal, and Kon-El and Kristoff copies running astray of their resurrected originals were both very fancy characters and storylines.

"Computer, Standing Order #24: If Any Member of The Primacy In Good Standing Gets Dead Or Permanently Incapacitated, As Assumed By The Fact He or She Does Not Get In Contact With You For A Year Or More, Activate Clone Of Said Member In Storage, Or Create A Clone From Existing Cell Samples And Memory Recordings, And Activate It". In game terms, assuming one does use Duplication instead of Resurrection to create the SFX, does this mean: Cloning: Duplication, Cannot Recombine (+0), Requires A Genetics Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; +0), Delayed Effect (+1/4); Extra Time (1 Season, -5 1/2), Independent (-2), OAF Bulky (-1 1/2), Side Effects (clone suffers from GM-determined Psychological Limitation, and original subject may also develop mental problems if still alive) (-1/4) OR Cloning: Duplication, Cannot Recombine (+0), Requires A Genetics Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; +0), Trigger (character is dead or permanently incapacitated) (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Misfire (character is imprisoned); +1/2); Extra Time (1 Season, -5 1/2), Independent (-2), OAF Bulky (-1 1/2), Side Effects (clone suffers from GM-determined Psychological Limitation, and original subject may also develop mental problems if still alive) (-1/4) Delayed Effect or Trigger, and why ? Does it matter whether the clone is already developed but kept "on ice", or created when the activation condition arises, or is it just SFX ??

Re: Seeking opinion on Succor, Self Only I can understand the game-balance concerns from repeated or Sweeped applications of Succor, Self Only, but with the right Limitations, I've found this power the most sensible, elegant implementation of the "Berserk Strength" or "I summon inner reserves of power" power concepts: more simple (and less burdensome on char sheet) than several Power Characteristics with Costs End, more reliable and simple to track than Aid. I generally use it with "Cannot Be Pushed Or Applied Multiple Times" Limitation, Standard Effect, and one or more of Charges, Extra Time, Concentration, RSR, or Side Effects (Enraged, Drain Stun, and the like). E.g. A power construct I use in a character, to simulate Thor's "warrior madness": Battle Fury: Succor STR, DEX, CON, SPD 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), four characteristics simultaneously (+1) (112 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (character becomes Enraged In Combat, always occurs, recovery 8-; -1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Self Only (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Power Cannot Be Pushed Or Applied Multiple Times (-1/2), Requires An INT Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/4)

Can a character have as a multipower slot a compound power that both adds to a Characteristic or Power with an advantage, and buys the same naked advantage for the same Characteristic or Power outside the MP slot ? E.g. for a Brick (or TK) Tricks MP, a slot: +30 STR, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Area of Effect [One Hex], Armor Piercing, Autofire [5 shots], Penetrating); +3/4); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) plus Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Area of Effect [One Hex], Armor Piercing, Autofire [5 shots], Penetrating); +3/4) for up to 20 Active Points of STR Good work for the UEP. As usual, be creative, be productive, and please be quick I'm extremely eager to get that one, and complete my "archetype guideline book" collection.

Re: Modeling a restraining device for supers Statting GM devices out fully helps to decide how and when characters may be eventually successful into defeating them.

Re: Modeling a restraining device for supers No it isn't. Although it might be certainly used as an always-on power negator in superhuman prisons and the like, the principal use I've foreseen is for superhumans in a "Suicide Squad" or "Liberty Project" situation (rogue superhuman forcibly drafted to work for the governemnt in a black-ops/super-soldier arrangement as a condition for their _relative_ freedom), and hence the device would only be activated on super PCs (and NPCs) as an extreme measure, when they really go over the line and seriously disobey or displease their overseers or become totally uncontrollable. I got the main idea from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong#Havoc_in_the_Heavenly_Kingdom

I'm trying to adapt to superheroic stuff and stat it up for Hero an idea I got from the Son Goku legend and combine it with the concept of power negators. A restraining device for rebellious or untrustworthy superhumans that are forced to work for the government under duress, or as a condition of a commuted sentence, and forcibly drafted into a black-ops or super-soldier team, being fit with a control restraining device. Or even if they are mostly recruited of their free will, get along with the other members of the super-team, and would freely subscribe many of the missions they are given, sometimes their psych issues or rebellious impulses would overcame them in a way unacceptable to their overseers, and they occasionally have to be brought down by their restraining device. The item would consist in a pair of bracers (or other appropriate forms like headbands, belts, collars, etc.) that on command may paralyze the super or incapacitate him with pain, pleasure, or nausea (user’s choice), or even negate the character's powers. Top government officials, and the government team liaison and the team leader would have the codes to activate the device either by vocal command, or by radio code. It should be possible to put this device on a character only out of combat, when the subject is not struggling or resisting, just like removing an Inaccessible Focus. The item may, or may not, automatically attack the character that tries to remove or tamper with it. Notwithstanding the fact that the main use of this device would be as a control tool for NPCs on PCs, I would still find useful to stat the device's features, for various reasons (not the least of them, that this might also see use as a general template for power negators in some settings). This the tentative writeup of the device I've done. Please review and comment on it: Restraining Device: Multipower, 300-point reserve, (300 Active Points); all slots Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) 1) Neural Feedback Inducer: Ego Attack 7d6 (Human class of minds), Variable Special Effects (fatigue, nausea, pain, pleasure) (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Trigger (voice/radio command) (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Misfire (device is hit), Two activation conditions apply simultaneously; +1), Continuous (+1) (297 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Visible (-1/4) 2) Neural Disruption: Suppress STR, DEX, INT, EGO, PRE, SPD, STUN, and Mutant/Mutate Powers 10d6, all affected Characteristics and Mutant/Mutate Powers simultaneously (+2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (deactivated by removing device from victim) (+1/2), Trigger (voice/radio command) (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Misfire (device is hit), Two activation conditions apply simultaneously; +1), Continuous (+1) (300 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) 3) Autonomic Disruption: Entangle 6d6, 7 DEF, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Variable Special Effects (any autonomic body function) (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (voice/radio command) (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Misfire (device is hit), Two activation conditions apply simultaneously; +1), Continuous (+1) (292 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2), Vulnerable (mental attacks) (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Vulnerable (biomanipulation attacks) (-1/4), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Can Be Dispelled (-1/4) Issues I'm still undecided about: Would this work better as an Elemental Control, an MP with fixed slots, or an MP with flexible slots ? Would the Ego Attack work better if based on Con, and/or the Entangle if BoECV ? I've statted it as an OIF, since this is what better resembles the way the device would work on the subject. Yet, power negator devices are generally done as OAF in Champions. What's the best option ? In either case, would be correct to put a limitation that the Device Can Only Be Initially Used On Unresisting Characters, or would this be part of the Focus ? It seemed to me that the best way to stat this device would be as an Independent No Range Focus, that is remotely activated with a Trigger (voice or radio command). Have I modeled it accurately ? Are two kind of command (vocal and radio) one or two Trigger conditions ? Should a feature be added that activates the device in the case the subject tampers with it ? And in such a case, should it better modeled with another MP slot, or another (second ? third ?) Trigger condition ?

Re: Comics are getting too steamy... There is still plenty of publishers that cater to them. E.g. Disney stuff. It's just that superheroic comics have retargeted their main audience among teens and young adults. As far as I can see from my area, this has done no harm to the popularity of the medium: young pre-teens cater to their stuff (e.g. Disney, manga suited to young kids), then gradually shift to more "mature" stuff (superheroic comics and teen manga) just before or during adolescence.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? If you build your Vulnerability to all Mental attacks (meaning both Ego Attacks from all SFX, and Stun attacks with a Mental/Psionic SFX), they aren't all that rare. I use mentalists with the same frequency that they show up in Marvel, and they aren't so rare there. Among mutants, they are as frequent as energy projectors. Yea, nobody wants to be the "insert a coin" puppet, but a halfway alternative I've developed is to build almost all of the EGO and all Mental Defense, if any, with a Lim "Not Vs. Attacks that make use of Psych Lim". Against your random mental control or illusion attack, you are as tough as any other strong-willed hero, but if the mentalist does some homework, and realizes which buttons work with the hero, he will fold like a house of cards. Another mentalist-based tactic to give weak spots to bricks and energy projectors, is to make all or most of their powers psionic, and critically based or willpower (cfr. John Byrne's Superman, Superboy, Gladiator). E.g. build the character as an OIHID or Multiform (or put an appropriate Lim on powers, but it looks more cumbersome on char sheet), and make Drains, Suppresses and Mind Control or Mental Illusion Attacks that severely drop EGO, INT, or PRE, or inflict severe amounts of negative emotions like fear, doubt, or despair, as the shutdown condition of the heroic form.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? This looks like an adequate application of the rule, yes. Whereas for the SFX Only, the defence will get noticeable (the force field will "flare up" for a moment, the steel-hard skin will "ping"), but only while the attack is repelled. The rest of the time, it is invisible. If the brick or energy projector walks away from the fight, and turns a corner, no one that meets him will deem him invulnerable. That's way in most cases, I deem SFX Only to be enough for Defense powers, if the fight goes on long enough, the defense will get obvious from attacks that keep fail. The value of IPE is in making the defense hidden before the fight starts, or does not occur at all. Higher values may be useful to make the attacker overestimate his chances for a couple Phases more, but eventually the ruse will end.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? Yes, but only the attacker is in the position to notice that the target isn't taking damage. Observers won't notice (if not clued by the fact that the target keeps standing the fight).

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? For simplicity's sake, let's assume the case where IPE covers all senses, even if you can do it just for one or a few senses. Basically, there are three versions of the Advantage, the default one (-1) hides the SFX manifestation of the power when it's used, and its source, but not its effect on the target (I fire a laser blot from my gun, the beam is invisible, the gun is silent and unconspicous, but the victim feels the damage and onlookers notice it but they do not know from where it came, unless they have clues different from the power itself), the halved (-1/2) value covers either the SFX manifestation or the source (the beam itself is invisible and silent, so it gets no attention, but the gun is noticeable, so the victim and observers can reasonably guess who shot him, or the beam makes light and noise, but the gun is subtle), the double (x2) value hides the effects on the target as well (the beam and the gun are invisible and silent, the victim feels the damage, but to onlookers he looks just fine...until he drops knocked out or dead). For defense powers that are constant by default (or upgraded to Persistent), IPE (SFX Only) is generally fine since it makes the defense totally unconspicous until and unless it's challenged by an incoming attack. My Force Field is totally skintight, invisible, and silent (no noticeable SFX), so there's no way you may notice I have it in ordinary circumstances, unless you try to punch me and notice something is stopping your blows or preventing them from doing any significant damage (effects on target are visible) and you realize that it is caused by some power of mine (source is visible). Hope that clarifies things.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? Just to wrap around a side line to the main discussion, I've asked Steve, and it appears that yes you do need IPE (SFX Only) if you wish your invulnerability power to be unconspicous and undetectable BEFORE one gets hit. Otherwise, anyone, just by looking at the guy, may somehow realize that he is super-tough. Therefore, if you wish your brick/energy projector to play the Clark Kent charade, you have to churn out the points for IPE (SFX Only), too.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks?

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? Building a defense against Normals is rather easy if your self have an SFX that allow you to break or defy "science as we know it". Reality-warping mutants, magic, psi, divine power, chi, etc. Your powers works by rewriting or warping reality, normal tech works by the usual laws of physics that your powers bypass, so it works on a metaphysical level inferior to your defenses and it is totally ineffectual against them. The same reasoning can be made for punches from a highly trained normal. I concede that this reasoning becomes rather fuzzy when it concerns super-science based heroes, but otherwise it works like clockwork. On a second thought, I may add that such a reasoning works very fine in those superheroic swettings, like the CU, where true super-science, like all superpowers, are made real by a cosmic loophole ("magic") and not by a more refined grasp of the "true" mundane laws of science. And there is a very definite metaphysical divide between superpowers and super-tech and mudane technology. In a setting like the Cu, you may define the "Normals" SFX as "all the stuff that works in the ages when there are no supers or mages around".

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks? Sorry, I have to heartily disagree about this. Origins, ultimately are the same thing as SFX (actually, they are meta-SFX, since one origin can jusitify several different SFX, but they are the same kind of thing), and being able to nullify or shield against an SFX is a pretty big conerstone of pretty much any superheroic game system. If you can affect the "magic" or technological" SFX, you can do the same with the normal SFX. It's just anything that is labeled as a superpwer. For weapons and armor, it's even already covered by the Real Weapon/Armor label.

Hullo again Steve, in a recent ongoing Champions thread we are discussing the best way to model "normal-proof" invulnerability for supers. Several Persistent power constructs have been proposed, from Force Walls to Desolidification, Only To Protect vs. Real Weapons (my choice). A sideline topic has developed, concerning whether IPE (SFX Only) would be necessary to make such defenses subtle and undetectable BEFORE the guy gets hit. Some argue that it is inherent in the "I'm really tough" SFX of the Power to be visible only when the defense is hit. Others counterargue that a build using a non persistant power for the base, barring some form of IPE there should be a visible SFX that lets you know that SOMETHING is going on with the target. What's the correct ruling ? Is IPE (SFX Only) always necessary, or can one sometimes forgo it for the sake of SFX, to make a basically non-persistent defense power like Force Field, Force Wall, or limited Desolidification, skintight and subtle and only detectable AFTER the target has already been hit, instead of say, glowing, humming, force fields somewhat distanced from the body ??

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks?

Re: Comics are getting too steamy... The same thing could and should be said for fighting for only the sake of fighting, something comics are traditionally very guilty of (see Marvel Team-Up and Heroes Misunderstanding Fight). Both are eye candies, shallow, maybe, but within limited amounts they may spice up the story nicely and fine. When they become overabundant or unjustified to the point of silliness and annoyance, they become a problem