Tasha

Some of that is the lack of willingness to use Champs Online to create an Entry Level RPG. I know that character Gen there is very structured, but that would be pretty easy to bring into the PnP Game. Also the fact that CO bombed in the marketplace killed any other incentive by both companies (DOJ/Hero, and Cryptic) to do much more work in that direction.

Story of my Gaming life...

I just figure that the Heroes are using skill levels and Talents to do extra damage with their blasters.

I built the attack the way I did because I don't assume anything about a GM's monster writeup. I don't KNOW that they DO have a suceptability to Holy Water, they may only have a vulnerability. Also suspeptabilities tend to be kind of low powered (1-3 d6 of damage that normal damage so no more than 3 damage). As a PC I would want a better attack. So again you buy the attack you want and don't just rely on GM's largess. YMMV.

We are talking about a VPP. If you want something that is beyond a fragile or unreliable attack. Then you should pay points for it. If you want to hope you have access to the Susceptibility(ie leave it up to the GM for access), then don't pay points for it. You may find that the priest isn't available to bless your water,

I disagree, In supers games you pay for your attacks. In Heroic games it's of course very different. It's in a VPP so it's not wasted points. It's something that should be charged for. Change Environment doesn't do it IMHO. Again if it's a one off, I am not going to stress about it. If the Player wants this as something they can grab and use quickly at a drop of a hat, it's paid for with points. It's the way the system works. It's an NND blast or RKA that does body. Defense is not being Undead (or a Demon).

It's still an attack that someone wants to make without penalties that is always there. Do you give NND's to heroes for no points if the NND only effects a small group? It's an attack, you pay points for it. You pay less points because it's only useful against vampires. BTW would you be taking this stand if the game were urban fantasy where Vampires were very common? Perhaps If I were in a DC Game where we were fighting Kryptonians and I wanted a gun that fired kryptonite rocks you would give me that for free. Because it's just a rock to everyone else.

Still Holy water is a special material. Again if someone is fighting Vampires and goes into a nearby church and has the Priest(ess) bless some water for an attack. Sure it's free. If the player wants to keep that attack around for use esp if Vampires are something that will come up time and time again. They need to pay for the attack.

How about some bigger type and a readable font. That typeface just makes my eyes blur and gives me a headache.

In one Urban Fantasy Adventure the main character charms her water filled paint balls with spells. Usually a sleep spell.

If someone uses something for a one off attack in champions, ie a Hero picks up a rifle and shoots at someone. That is free. If someone wants a weapon that always does damage no matter how rare, they spend the points for it. Special effect is meaningless for this. It's the same if I had a holy priest that made a spell that damages undead (ie D&D 3.x Turn undead) or If someone wants a weapon that does the same thing. You PAY for your attacks. BTW the build I put forward also assumes that the Undead have a Vulnerability to Holy attacks.

ie 27 Holy water shooting Paint Ball Gun: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Does BODY (+1) (82 Active Points); OAF (-1), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (target not Undead or Demonic; -1/2), Beam (-1/4), Limited Range ~100m (-1/4), 64 Charges (+1/2)

In heroic games we used to do it all of the time. It works very well with Killing attacks. With Normal Attacks not so much. Also, I saw it way more often in Heroic Games where the PC's have a much more limited Push option. Also using 4 Skill levels for 2DCs works out better than calling any of the -4 hit locations. Also I think it's different because I find that Heroic Characters often have a lot more Skill levels than Champions Characters.

Technically you don't lose any Action. You just used one early to take a Defensive Action (IIRC you can do more that just dodge, I believe you could move your MP around, Skill levels and then make a defensive manuver)

Also check out the alternate Character sheets. The Ultimate Character sheets are my favorites.

You can abort to any defensive action, so a PC could abort to change the Pool to maximum Defenses.

IMHO 4-6 would be fine. Yeah, they would be a bit cookie cutter. The point of this is easy to learn how to play. Not showing off how complicated the system can be.

A starter Adventure with no rules illustrating how the PC's work is a huge problem IMHO. The point is to make something that teaches someone to play. I am not sure how including enough rules to show how a Simple beginning PC works would cut into sales. Esp considering that the work would send people to Champions Complete for full Character Gen. IMHO characters should be built using a few powers as possible. No Adjustment powers, probably no mental powers. No Adjustment powers etc. Keep the PC's VERY Simple. No Killing attacks or Resistant Defenses. KISS. Keep it simple and sweet. I would love to see characters that are so bare bones it would make a Cassandra Build look huge. Hell, I would ask her to build the PC's. That woman can do wonders with a very basic powerset. Add a few skills to round out the PCs and you are ready to go.

Yeah, I am starting a campaign based on those characters. We have played though the Box and have moved onto the PDF adventure. I had to do some fiddling to actually recreate the Pregens in the full system (which is really a jerk move by FFG, building pregens that can't be built using the full system).

How about a simple construction that allows the Globe to move and not be blown down by a huge attack Resistant Protection (2 PD/2 ED) (Protect Carried Items), Usable By Other (+0), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally, Recipient must remain close to Grantor, Area Of Effect (1m Radius; +1/4) (20 Active Points)

I would say that the followup be a slightly on the rails adventure. With SOME choices for the PCs to make, but not really open like a true sandbox.

Been using a BUNCH of other companies' Beginners adventures for awhile now. The best ones are from FFG's Star Wars line. They are very on the rails and a more than a bit contrived, but they do teach the system to both the GM and Players. I highly recommend picking up one of their Beginner's boxes. They are a fun nights play, come with the silly dice and pregenned characters. Ones that have enough of a background for the Players to actually roleplay them. They are all good examples of how to do beginner's sets.

As an introductory Adventure Sandbox is the worst. IMHO you need an on the rails adventure that takes the Supers though stuff that shows how to do the basics with the system and then ends up with a big boss fight or a Group fight. Save the Sandbox for the future. You are trying to teach people about the system and setting them up to show how much fun the game world is. Handing them a supplement and saying "Make it up yourself" is very counterproductive.

The problem with the 2nd edition of VIPER's nest is the Sandbox feel of it. It's less of an adventure or series of adventures, than a short supplement for assaulting VIPER's bases.

Ya, know if I was interested in running SciFi without gonzo Space Wizards, I would just say frack it and run Traveller Hero. Star Wars without Jedi becomes Firefly/ Traveller/ etc generic SciFi. I guess I hate playing Zeroes or noobz.